One ugly plant

[TriIron]

Actually, it is more like 4 ugly plants, just pictures of 1.

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
Since Seedlings

What STRAIN are you growing?
White Rhino

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
Seed

What is the age of your plants?
10 Weeks

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
5 Days

How Tall are the plants?
6-9 Inches

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
Veg

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
N/A

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
1 Gallon Pots (1 per)

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
70% soil, 30% perlite

What Nutrient's are you using?
Bottanicare Grow

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
I mixed it to 800 PPM last time

How often are you feeding?
Once a week, sometimes less

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
N/A

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
Water + Veg, adjust PH as needed

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
500-900

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
6.7

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
Hanna Probe Tester

How often are you watering?
Every 3-5 days

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
Last feeding was 10 days ago

What size bulb are you using?
T5

What is the distance to the canopy?
4-6 inches

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
55-75

What is the canopy temperature?
77-80

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
Day 77-80 / No nights

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
I have enough air flow through the closet to move all the leaves gently

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
My veg room is in a closet, with the doors open on both ends. A small fan blows air in one side, and a larger fan blows air out of the closet.

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
The photographed one yes, the others no

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
No. I let it almost dry out before watering

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
135 ppm

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Tap

Are you using water from a water softener?
No

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Cloned 16 days ago, problems began well before that

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Einstein Oil - 3 weeks ago

Are plant's infected with pest's?
Little gnats, very mild infestation




Spots appear on lower leafs, and continue to spread throughout the set of branches at it's level, and then moves up. Obviously an age of growth issue. The leaves eventually become completely crisp and fall of the plant.

This condition started of early on in life. I suspected that the Ace Organic Potting soil was the culprit, and repotted. When I checked my runoff, the PPM was so high it didn't register on my Hanna Tester. I immediatedly flushed. The problem persisted. I fed lightly the next watering and added a 1/2 dose of Cal-Mag as someone suggested I may have a Mag issue. Next watering the runoff was about 1100. I skipped a feeding and watered plain water again the next time and got a runoff of around 600. I then cut clones, fed at 700 ppm. My next watering showed the runoff staying low, and the PH at 6.6. PH going in is 6.0-6.5. Roots are growing great, as I just transplanted 5 days ago and all the plants were very ready to be repotted. They are ready to be watered again tonight fwiw. Thanks in advance for any help.

Sorry there is only a link for the picture, guess I'm not quite bright enough to figure out how to post pictures stoned..

 

[Deft]

Direct link the pic from your album.

 

[Weedhound]

Can't get your pic to come up......tells me I have no right to access that page.....is the photo in your album and is the album public?

 

[Weedhound]

no photos in album. What did you transplant them into?

 

[TriIron]

www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=1227

Lets see if that does it. Sorry guys.

Still can't seem to get anything more than a link. Deft, when I did the

it doesn't put a picture, it all just dissapears...

 

[TriIron]

no photos in album. What did you transplant them into?

They are still in soil, in 1 gallon square plastic pots. I've checked and re-checked that I'm not doing something obviously wrong and am at a loss for words.

 

[Weedhound]

I have a feeling you need to do a couple of things. In hydro....if I were to see that leaf on my plant I would call it a salt or nute buildup. However.......you are in soil and apparently have had the issue for awhile, but repotted five days ago is that correct?
What kind of soil are you using now? When I grow in soil I use Fox Farms Oceans Forest and the initial runoff is over 1500......I do NOT flush my soil and have never had FFOF overnute my plants either. My understanding is that what soil is for.....to buffer the nutes etc for the plant. With an inert medium like hydro, the situation is different.

I would also raise your T5's.....mine tend to run a bit hotter than some other flouros and my plants do better at about 8-10 inches. If you check Stitch's complete guide for plants troubles etc......check under Potassium def. That's what I believe is showing on your plants and my first thought is that your humidity is too low and your lights too close to your plant. Either of these can cause a k def.......I would pull your lights back and try to increase humidity to your grow area.

Last question.......what's the ppm and ph of your tap water?

 

[Weedhound]

A pic of the entire plant would be great and you've double checked and calibrated your equipment too recently I hope. If not.....do that very first.

good luck.

 

[TriIron]

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

 

[TriIron]

There are full plant pics. I raised the light, but I was under the impression that if temperatures were under control you could lower a T5 right down within inches of the canopy. I did recently calibrate the tester, and I do a baseline check of my known tap water and it always reads correctly at 6.6 and 135 ppm. Humidity if anything would border on being too high. I'm going to constantly battle the humidity in my neck of the mountains.

 

[dj.scotfree]

I would flush it...measure the runoff (PH & PPM)...if all checks out...You might check into the gnats...I have had problems with gnats too...I just spray all the soil with Neem Oil @ the base of plant. I don't think its the gnats though....Its probably a nute lockout like Weedhound stated.

 

[libby]

....I would pull your lights back and try to increase humidity to your grow area.
Quote: weedound;

Bloody hell weedhound, d1d you m1ss h1s RH,? 55 to 75.... w1sh 1 could anyth1ng l1ke that!!

 

[Weedhound]

What did the roots look like when you transplanted five days ago? You've definitely been having this issue for awhile.

Despite the higher humidity your lights WILL decrease the humidity on the leaves themselves. This is a different area altogether but something to think about. When the LEAVES reach the temp of 80F, photosynthesis begins to slow greatly. I'm not talking about your room temps or even your canopy temps....the temp of the leaf itself. By running your light so low your are burning away the moisture to the leaf itself. The longer the leaf is exposed to too much heat (via light too close) the more the problem will show. This has NOTHING to do with room temps or room humidity. I'm talking about the plant itself. You don't seriously think if you sat your ass under the sun for hours at a time your skin isn't going to dry out? Think about it, libby.

(edit: running a fan constantly at the leaves can create the exact same condition of drying out the leaves so if you have fan running, don't point it directly at your plants unless its oscillating......not pointed strictly at the same part of the plant all the time.)

This is one thought and when you have an ill plant it is ALWAYS a good idea to back your lights off and ease stress in any case.

I have grown white rhino in hydro but not in soil. As I recall the issue showed in my grow as well, despite the fact that both hydro plants yielded very well they developed some mold in the top buds due to the k def. The k def itself was caused by fert/salt buildup in my medium so I had to flush constantly if I remember correctly and never was able to get rid of the problem completely. Besides the White Rhino makes me stupid.......couchlock x 2It's a strong bugger.

If it's at ALL possible here's is what I would do if they were my plants. I offer this not as an explanation but simply how I would solve your problem.......mostly because it's the only real way I know how in soil. I would transplant them into 3 gallon pots with Fox Farms Oceans Forest soil. I would add nothing else. I would NOT flush. I would use RO water and CalMag (5ml/gal) and I would use a good root product such as Rhizotonic and Cannazym and give them some time to regroup.

I can't tell you positively what is causing your issue since different diseases can all produce similar symptoms. Sometimes all you can do is change things one by one until you find the one that works. A "k def" is one of the most common I see but can have several different causes including....but not limited to.....low humidity, leaves getting too hot, or abnormal ph, fert/salt build up or too much of another nute or mineral can also lead to lockout in some cases and rootbound and/or root disease. Transplanting into larger containers, using a known quality soil, controlling the water you are using and asissting with root growth; all these problems can be addressed (and most likely solved) by a transplant into QUALITY soil and using good products.

 

[libby]

Despite the higher humidity your lights WILL decrease the humidity on the leaves themselves. This is a different area altogether but something to think about. When the LEAVES reach the temp of 80F, photosynthesis begins to slow greatly. I'm not talking about your room temps or even your canopy temps....the temp of the leaf itself. By running your light so low your are burning away the moisture to the leaf itself. The longer the leaf is exposed to too much heat (via light too close) the more the problem will show. This has NOTHING to do with room temps or room humidity. I'm talking about the plant itself. You don't seriously think if you sat your ass under the sun for hours at a time your skin isn't going to dry out? Think about it, libby.

You had me half conv1nced before 1 real1sed you were talk1ng to me:smile:

 

[Weedhound]

oh, and ph EVERYTHING that goes into your pot to 6.5. EVERYTHING.

Disclaimer: I know you most likely can't do everything I said but the more you can the more it will help. I tried to cover every possible reason I could in telling you how to "fix" your plants. You can only do the best you can.

Best of luck..

 

[Weedhound]

Despite the higher humidity your lights WILL decrease the humidity on the leaves themselves. This is a different area altogether but something to think about. When the LEAVES reach the temp of 80F, photosynthesis begins to slow greatly. I'm not talking about your room temps or even your canopy temps....the temp of the leaf itself. By running your light so low your are burning away the moisture to the leaf itself. The longer the leaf is exposed to too much heat (via light too close) the more the problem will show. This has NOTHING to do with room temps or room humidity. I'm talking about the plant itself. You don't seriously think if you sat your ass under the sun for hours at a time your skin isn't going to dry out? Think about it, libby.

You had me half conv1nced before 1 real1sed you were talk1ng to me:smile:

i learned this trick from my hydro man. A $25.00 temp gun pointed at your leaves will tell you EXACTLY how close you can get your light down. I'm told that's how the "big boys" do it.

 

[whodair]

wash the pots

wash the pots

if you transplant into dirty pots, once the roots reach the pot, they eat whatevers built up inside your pots

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Doubtful it's a heat issue...growing tips look unaffected. Looks to me like a problem below the soil. (unless you are foliar feeding the lower branches daily...)

Looks like either a ph issue, or possibly a micro overdose.
Do you add anything besides the Botanicare? (CalMag plus, Superthrive, molasses...)
What do you use to adjust ph?
Did you rinse the neem oil off after treatments were complete? Doesn't that stuff clog the pores in the leaves, restricting aspiration...?

Whatever it is/was...the growing tips look ok so far.

How long have they been in the gallon pots...? (rootbound?)
When was their last flush?

 

[TriIron]

Whodair: That would seem to be the one variable that no one has mentioned and that I am a little embarrassed to admit possibly is the case. I am not as much of a clean freak as I should be and they were not washed after the last couple grow.

Rusty: The were just recently transplanted about a week before the pictures, and the oil was no rinsed off the plants, but I didn't really spray them as much as the soil surface which has pretty much eliminated the gnat problem. I couldn't more than a couple in the entire 14 plants. They were flushed a week or so before transplanting, so about 2 weeks ago.

 

[Rusty Trichome]

How about the additives...?