ok, so maybe this organics stuff is hatrder than it looks.

[inc0gnit0]

This is my 1st attempt at an organic soil grow. Usually i just buy a good pre-mixed soil and
use it with little or no problems. But, I recently got bitten by the "All organic" bug and
have found that, i don't know what the hell I'm doing. I may have just screwed up
a perfectly healthy couple of fine little plants. I just transplanted 2 very nice females
that are about a month old into a batch of homemade composted organic soil. About 5
days later they are both exhibiting a rather increasingly benign case of the claw. Looks
like too much Nitrogen in the mix, cause i wasn't thinking. Ok, I know you guys are gonna
say my soil wasn't right and now I know this but this is what i used in the soil mix:

5 gal top soil
2 gal composted cow manure "planting soil"
1 Tblsp per gal. Blood meal
1 Tblsp per gal. Bone Meal
2 Tblsp per gal. Dolomite lime
Vermiculite
epsom salts
gypsum

I moistened it and let it sit for about a week and a half, mixing it every now and then.
It gave off a very earthy, rich, quiet pleasent smell indeed. To us gardeners anyway. Seemed
to be warm at the middle and bottom. Not Hot, just warmer than the top.

The Plants were preflowering, just noticed the first signs of the female perssuaion, about a week
and a day. I might also add at this point, that they have been stressed a bit by heat on and off
in their lives, so this may be a factor as well.


I replanted them today and started them slowly back into veg. I used a scaled down mixture

16 lbs organic no fertz added soil
8qt Perlite
4qt Peat Moss
about 6qt of the previous soil mix
14 Tblsp Lime.
2 qt Vermiculite

Filled to 5 inches below the rim of an 18 gal storage container.

The pics are about 1 hour after transplant. I didn't have access to kelp meal or Wormcastings.
Yeah, I could order them but it's a real hassle for me. I'm gonna swallow my pride here and ask
from the organics experts here, What do I need to be doing?

 

[inc0gnit0]

wow... maybe no one knows. Or maybe there's nothing I can do!

 

[Suby]

I see a few problems but I leave the diagnosis to you.

No topsoil, no composted manure mixes ever unless your seasoned at this.
Your first mix had vermiculite which holds water but no perlite which should be 30% of your mix.
Your transplant mix sounds alot better, from what I'm seing they are probably overwatered from sitting in topsoil with no perlite and then after from the transplant.
Just feed them plain water when they are getting light and wait it out, hydro growers get to see the reaction within 24hrs or less but as we are soil growers we need 3-7 days before we can gauge the effects of a transplant with different mixes.
Other than looking a little stretchy they look OK, just wait and see I guess.
Sry I couldn't be of more help.
Suby

 

[Guest]

I'm not real experienced with the composted manure....but I have read on occasion that it can cause trouble, either too strong or sometimes diseases. I am not a fan of using topsoil either. It is very heavy and compacted.

Just to be safe....why not geta bale of promix, or something like it without any added ferts, and pull the girls back out, rinse off what you can of the soil with manure in it without disturbing the roots too much, and see how it goes. I would give them at least a week in the promix to see if it is helping.

Keep us updated.

Cheers,

 

[inc0gnit0]

Suby and homey... Thanks for all your help. They did seem a bit overwatered. I considered this for a short time before the 2nd transplant. haven't given them anymore water and they already seem to be perking up. WHen I did the 2nd transplant, I very carefully rinsed the roots of the devestating soil. The new mix is very low in all the nutrients as far as I can tell. I've thought about the Pro-mix homey, But I'd already obtained the other stuff before I found out that Home Depot carries it, and My "gardening funds" are all tapped out till next week. Don't want to disturb them too much more, but if I have to..... then, we'll see... If they still look desperate in a week, I'll take that route. Leaves are still clawed a bit. I still think the rich soil was too much for 'em. The stretchy thing seems odd to me. They've been under 400watts of HPS their entire life in a 4X4 closet. Had some heat problems but they are definetly getting tons of light. The Fem that was photoed the most was one that only got topped once. The other (last pic) was topped twice and didn't stretch AS much. What would cause the longer node spacing besides lack of light? Maybe it's genetics, have never had others stretch this much. Maybe it's stress, their life hasn't exaclty been a "day in the sun". Well now I know they are both females so it's gonna be recovery till they look better. Will let you know how it turns out. Hopefully for the best.

 

[inc0gnit0]

BTW, laugh at my ignorance but we all must learn somehow. Do you have to wet the perlite before introducing it to the soil mix? I put mine in dry and when the mix was wet it seemed to come to the top. It was fine by the time I used it to re-pot, just wondering... if it's known to wet it, why dosen't it say so on the freaking bag!?

 

[dan kay]

no there's no need to wet perlite before adding it to your mix. i've heard of people poking holes in the bottom of the bag and running water through it to rinse the dust out but that's it. just be sure to use atleast 30% in your soil mixes to help drainage.

 

[Suby]

No you don't have to wet perlite but rinsing it in the bag before eleminates dust which is little use to your soil and keeps it out of the air.

Incognito: If you added perlite than that new soil will most likely be fine but Homey is right, a pro brand of soiless wil pay for itself in yield alone.
Heat is a major factor in stretching as is genetics and lighting (this you have enough of), a sativa will stretch no matter what, try to get those temps down.

S

 

[inc0gnit0]

Tried, and tried again. Can't exhaust into another room or outside. I'm hardening the girls off now and going outdoors. I don't think I can take another night sleeping in 90 degree heat. BTW, They look beautifull today. Nice and lush green, seem to be growing again. Thanks for your help and I'll update soon.

 

[inc0gnit0]

It's only been a lil less than 2 days, but so far so good
#1 The one that was looking the worst.... trying to cope.

My kinder soil with perlite.

#2

#1 again. Leaves trying to straighten out.

A little mother I'm flowering by hand. She's beating an mg def and starting to really shine! No stretch here, and this lil bitch has been through hell. Been Nursing her for about a month. Her color is really starting to come back!


Thanks for your help Suby, Been keeping up with your posts. I was hoping you'd offer some assistence. I really admire your organic abilities!

 

[Suby]

Those are really looking great, seems like you pulled it off with with one spliff behind your back.
I'm glad you like my posts, I love that I can be of help and help fuel the organic movement on this site.
I'm an advice whore so any place I can help I'll speak up.

Sub's

 

[inc0gnit0]

Update on the organic difficulties

Update on the organic difficulties

Update on the claw problems....

Apparently the CLAW was caused by an excess in N, just as I thought. The plants exhibited
a complete change from bad to amazing once the transplant was made to a kinder soil. I also
introduced a little more perlite to the mix and I'm positive this had a lot to do with the
recovery. I have since remove about 30 clones from both plants and they are still thriving.
One was mine and another belonged to a friend of mine whom I am introducing to the wonderful
world of cannabis cultivation. I gave him his about 3 weeks ago and all he's done is transplant to
it's final home, and water about 3 times. His growth was awesome! I've cloned mine 2 more times
since he got his and it's a freaking 3.5 foot stout bush right now! I don't have pics of his, but I will.

I got a little carried away last week after taking the last clonesm and gave it too much Fish Emulsion.
Burned her... So now after a flush back down to normal levels she's recovering and
once again doing very well.

So thanks guys for the help.... really paid off! Suby..... you know your organics, I'll
come back to you for all my Organic needs!

 

[Suby]

Glad to see your getting the twist for this organic stuff, your patience and willingness to rethink and revise your actions has led to success I did very little so the kudos are yours.
It looks like you'll be toking fatties in no time and what your soil ph when you use fish emeulsions, they can whack ph out.

Be cool dude and keep us updated,

Sub's

 

[Closet Funk]

The hardest part I think is building your soil and mixing all of it up. It can be a job to mix up all that soil. The next thing you have to worry about is fungus and bugs. I love organics though, it's the way bud should be grown.

 

[Rattrap]

I like to keep my potting mix real simple & not too hot, or not hot at all. I love to feed my girls & if i 'supe' the potting mix i tend to over feed them. This is my simple recipe;
2 parts organic potting mix (nothing special just no slow release ferts - most important!)
1 part mushroom compost (very optional, this is my first grow using the mushroom compost, not sure whether i'll use it again)
1 part perlite.

Thats is. all the nutes the plants need they get by hand from me in liquid form.

 

[inc0gnit0]

That's probably not a bad idea, but I like the idea of feeding my soil rather than feeding my plants. I like to build a mini eco system that is thriving with micro life and allow them to break down the nutes to be made available to my plants. If my soil is healthy then so shall be my plants. That's the way I look at it. My goal is to produce a soil enviro that will give 'em what they need with little or no interference from me the duration of their lives. I know it can be done and slow release organics is the key. For me anyway.

Isn't giving the plants their nutrients by hand, when you deem needed, and only by you, pretty much akin to a soil\soiless Hydro setup? I mean the plants roots don't have to be submearsed or sprayed w\water or nutes to be considered hydro. A grower can set up his plants in planters or grow bags in pro-mix and feed them hydro nutes, that then would be considerd hydro as well... right?

 

[inc0gnit0]

I've always been a bit skeptical about cfl's.... THat is until recently. I've found that the best way... for me anyway to veg a plant and meet the optimum conditions for growth is with CFL's. Yeah, yeah... I know it's been proven but sometimes it doesn't sink in until you try yourself. I am able to keep the heat, ventilation and light perfect for the plant with little money or trouble.

The following are pics of the strongest plant I've had in a while. I kept the conditions optimal using a radioshack 80cfm fan and 2 42watt cfls. in a 2X3 cab, and ofcourse pure organics!

Sorry about the blurry pics.













Damn... the pics don't do it justice... but I'm sure many of you know what I'm talking about!

This plant is about 3 weeks old and growing faster than any I've ever seen
...and it's only one of 4. The oter 3 are nearly identical but younger. will post those pics later.

 

[inc0gnit0]

The 2 plants this post is what this thread was started about. Now they've gotten separated. one to a good friend
of mine because he wanted to try his hand in the art. I was more than happy to
oblige. Well I used mine as a mother to hone my skills at cloning using different
techniques. More like a serious of experiments really. Mine's been slightly burned,
has donated 3 groups of 11 clones, and has now finally been left to the life that it's sister has
lived all along.

Man... He's gonna get so much more bud than me!!

The background doesn't do 'er justice but, RJ tied her down to start some nice main branching.
They are all about 10" from the tie point on the plant. Still got quite some time to grow. Man I
wish my 1st ever plant looked like that!






Well this is an older image of mine but it's about this big... plus a few battle scars. She'll do quiet fine.

 

[Neptune]

in the future, avoid cow and horse manure. it is very hot and usually not fully composted. Stick with bat, worm, and maybe chicken poo.

Lots of kelp and alf alfa, and 2:1 bone to blood meal

 

[minds_I]

Hello,

Chicken s*** is hot as well-must be composted well.

minds_I