Odd taco curling, first time soil

[Growstaman]

Hello everyone, I am pretty new to this forum but have been reading up on it often, to start out I am using a small apartment closet til I get outta this place.

Current setup:
Stains: Random, was doing this as a test run for sil before I go for the gold

4 26w (100w) CFL (Upping it to 6 very soon if able to vent on time)
1 Hanging fan for circulation
1 Dayton knock off cpu fan bout 112 CFM (Currently just blowing, soon ducting into wall for air out and intake onto rubbermaid for flowering
1 Cheap low cpu cfm fan blowing upward into bulbs as more air circulation
Temp usually 70-78 max, for a day or 2 was in 66-68 for a cold spike we had

3 - 2 Gal soil pots with about 12-14 holes drilled in bottom for draining
-Pots are filled with Roots Organic soil with pearlite added for better drainage, bottom filled with about 1/2 to 1 inch of pearlite on top of newspaper for drainage

-Thus far have mostly only straight ph'd water with 1 run of dolomite sweetener/half dose fox farm grow big for a calcium issue

Side note: Planning to LST after watering tomorrow just for more yield due to limited space

Watering: So far usually fill about 2-3 1 gallon bottles with mix or plain PH'd water I am using, water soil with about 1/2 to 1/3 gallon each til I see sufficient drainage and pot fills like its retaining water (USUALLY lasts about 2-4 days of feed)
Now for the problem:
Problem started occurring after last watering, which at first I was assuming a PH issue cause pen was being a little finickey. Calibrating it again tomorrow with new watering, but for now still am worried with this issue. From what pen read it was a TAD bit low at about a 6.6, usually I water with at least 6.8 to 6.9 resulting in a 6.6-6.8 run off.

SO after this last watering they have definately had a great growth spirt putting out more defined and bigger leaves. Now my one plant that was at first doing great has started curing up quite hard, tacoing even, with a bit of bleachy/yellowing spots near the curling which lead me to believe it was possibly heat.... Moved the CFLS about hand span distance from plant (roughly 5-6 inch atm). Only seems to get hot at night when door is closed, which I have noticed a quick burst of heat in morning, which is why I plan to vent into walls soon.

Though it does seem like maybe heat/underwater I am unable to tell and about to water again tomorrow. Tested soil tonight and it is mostly dried back out with pots being very light again. Tomorrow they will recieve a 6.8-6.9 ph water with full nutes/dolomite

I am just slightly worried as this has not improved over the last couple of days and I am sorta at a loss for what could solve it, any help would be greatly appreciated and I shall provide updates for anything I may have missed while posting all the specs.

-Growsta

This is the one curling, cfl now about 5 inches or so above plant, curling started after last watering, temps been 75 and under

These 2 are doing better with no curling

2

 

[SweetNightmare]

Looks like magnesium deficiency to me... but not too serious yet... I'd wait for someone else to chime in too before doing anything to make sure...

 

[Weedhound]

Its possible your cold spike with these plants at such a young age could be your issue. Older plants in larger containers would not be as affected by cold as a young seedling's leaves and roots. Off the top of my head (which is AIR may I remind you ) I would guess your roots got too cold or perhaps too wet. The other thought would be that your ph is abnormal.....water going in (what kind of water are you using?) and any runoff coming out the bottom should be between 6.2-6.8.

good luck.

 

[Growstaman]

I am using some filtered unit water that sits at about 6-7 and requires some lemon juice or baking soda to ph up or down. Usually takes nutes + dolomite sweetener + lemon juice to bring it to 6.9 and runoff is usually 6.6-6.8, last time is the ONLY time I may have watered incorrectly since pen was giving me a headache (which has since then been fixed.) So tonight I will probably water as they have dried out quite a bit and give it a nute run watering... Cold spike i could definately see now that you mention it, it started around then but now usually sits around 74, new leaves still have slight curl but not nearly as bad

 

[Weezard]

No belch of re-leaf

No belch of re-leaf

Aloha, Growstaman

You might want to 86 dat sodium bicarbonate.

Way too much sodium.
Potasium bicarbonate is cheap and contributes to da nutes.
Lemon juice is OK for PH down, but phosphoric acid is mo' betta.


Weezard

 

[Growstaman]

Hmm

Hmm

Aloha, Growstaman

You might want to 86 dat sodium bicarbonate.

Way too much sodium.
Potasium bicarbonate is cheap and contributes to da nutes.
Lemon juice is OK for PH down, but phosphoric acid is mo' betta.


Weezard

Great suggestion, didn't know it was to much, potasium bicarb if it's cheap then I am definately switching to it. Thanks Weezard

 

[Weedhound]

I have to agree with Weezard.....ph up and down for plants only. Even the stuff for aquariums has too much sodium in it for plants. Ph TESTERS are ok.....but plant ph adjusters only as Weezard said are definitely the way to go.

 

[Growstaman]

Hmm

Hmm

Indeed, makes sense, I used only dolomite/lemon squeeze juice today for ph up or down, just made my batch with 1 tsp per gal foxfarm grow big, and 1-1/2 tsp sweetener dolomite, going to water here shortly and hope that all goes well from here on out, today they looking quite good and I am doing LST tonight during feeding, so I'll post updates asap.

Thanks guys!

 

[Growstaman]

Updates

Updates

Well as of just now I just gave them all a full watering with Foxfarm Grow Big and a bit of dolomite sweetener ph'd down with squeezed lemon juice.

PH was at about 6.8-6.9 runoff being 6.6-6.7, watered in a circular motion with a bottle filled from the 2 gallons of mixed nutes.

Temp currently sitting at 76.2

After watering finally tied down, 1st 2 went like a charm, had no problem LSTing, 3rd seems a bit stem weak inside pellet, when LSTing it pulls more of the stem than the upper branch so I did it slightly weaker on that one just so it can adjust to bending.

I will provide picture updates tomorrow on how they looks/improved.

I am hoping for the best, and thanks for inputs

-Growsta

 

[Growstaman]

Updated results

Updated results

Hey guys, just got home from work and the ladies looking beautiful! Guess a nice watering and a bit of modification on lights/fans helped out, I also LST'd each of them last night.

No more further curling/tacoing and new growth is coming in great.

I will be putting pics up right after dinner, having a bit of the munchies .

Stay posted for mini update tonight!

 

[ZeusOGrefugee]

looks like a little too much ferts to me...also, get rid of the lemon juice, sodium bicarb and all the other shit...keep it simple and just pH ur water and use ur reg nutes at a med strength...too much acid is NO bueno for MJ...good luck..Ill be checkin in..Peace

- Z

 

[Weedhound]

Good to hear Grow!

 

[Growstaman]

Update

Update

Hey guys, sorry for the delayed update, had some bill issues :|. Sigh @ being laid off. Anyway though, I did end up doing that full water as posted above, at first looked liked they loved it, great growth even with new LST. They seemed to take very well to both.

Side notes:
-They are now about 3 weeks into veg, was running 24/7 first 1 1/2 weeks, now on 18/6 since state temps going back up.

-Had first full watering with 1tsp Foxfarm Grow Big 6-4-4, and 1 tsp dolomite sweetener, PH @ 6.8-6.9 upon watering with 6.7 runoff. Used 2 one gallon bottles filled and dispenced from watering bottle evenly between the 3, 2 gal pots, after watering gave first LST with low gauge fish line

-Temps still around 75-78 highs now

-Bout 1-2 weeks off to having closet fully exhausted with scrubber

-Bulbs now about 5-7 inches from plants.

The only complaint I have as of now is they have this odd yellowish looking spot development that first started on the curly one, dots getting slightly bigger on them, and even a slight tip burn.

The other 2 took much better until today, they are both showing slight symptoms of the same, slight yellowing spot and 1 slightly stunted growth.

I have pics of all of this but am not to sure if it is nute burn or defecient or what really is going on, you guys have been very helpful so far, almost all problems were corrected, I have high hopes still and can't wait to see how they finish out veg.

Internet now back and running so I'll be checking in daily again

-Thanks guys
Growsta

1 - Curly from above

Other 2, not so bad but back left is starting it

 

[pokerfish]

Good pics, helpful. Where are you measuring your the temps at/what location? I would suggest measuring right at the canopy level of the plants, directly under the bulb. This should be your constant point of measurement, regardless of where the lights are. When my plants do the former (leaf edges curl up & appear "dry") it solely has to do with the plant's inability to transpire enough water. This could be from excessive heat at the plant leaves, too intense of a light or the combo of the two, excessive salts/nutes in the medium preventing proper uptake including water, small/underdeveloped/diseased roots, or possibly a K deficiency, but wouldn't look to any deficiency quite yet. Your plants are small, probably with a smaller root development, heat is a little high for them @ this time, they can't use the nute levels currently supplied because of this combo. They can't transpire enough. Raise lights to 12", or higher after checking canopy temps. Flush @ 1/2 nute strength properly pH'd. Should rebound within a day or two. Adjust/respond to the plants. Also sagging of plant leaves with minor curling could also result from above. Just my take though... best!

 

[Growstaman]

Update

Update

Well thanks poker, great great observations, the lights are currently off, til 6 pm to they have that break. But I think your right, I definatley need to raise them a bit, the curling/yellowing at ends makes the leafs so incredibly brittle and dry feeling it's insane.

But once these lights back on, I will raise them a few more inches and do what you said, next water, backing it to half ph'd.

So far today they don't look THAT much worse, looks like mostly stopping except one slightly progressed and yellowing at tips of some undergrowth leaves, I shall put pics on tonight!

 

[Growstaman]

Newest update

Newest update

Well guys, after that watering I though all was going well, since have added a bowl of water in to closet to add humidity, also raised lights to about, 8-10 inches above plants.

With last watering of PH'd water (used lemon juice to PH down as it was all I had) with full Foxfarm grow big 6-4-4, 1 tsp per 1 gallon and 1 tsp of dolomite sweetener to prevent any further calcium def.

Well after last watering temps been 71-78 hottest.

Plants were doing ok at first and def SEEMED to stop, however, turned on lights today after 6 hour darkness and started noticing leafs dying off/getting worse.

So far very 1st set has fully died on most plants, now the set after (first fan set) is starting to get very yellow and browning edges and dying one by one.

I dunno what is going on at this point... they have nutes/ph/good temps...

I really am at a loss.. Starting to look like potas def but not entirely sure.

Pics here to see what you all think, but as far as next water which I plan to do tomorrow, should i just PH water and flush since last water I did use nutrients or what exactly do I do at this point? I am getting sorta confused and flustered as they do good then bad and I am not to sure where to go at this point.

Any help at all plz, need to save em!

1

Plz guys any help asap for watering tomorrow

-Thanks
Growsta

 

[Growstaman]

Update

Update

I am thinking for tomorrow watering just giving about a full 2-3 gallon each flush just PH'd water, and going from there. Hopefully that will make them perk up a bit and if not let me know for sure if they need nutes or not, if so I am planning to foiliar feed them asap after watering, hoping this will correct anything flushing causes... But they feel pretty damn dry today and I maybe could have been underwatering with nutes? I was giving about 2 full gallons split between the 3.... should they need more than this? Would this cause the deficiency? I hope for responces by tomorrow, but if not I plan to full blown flush to foiliar if needed, I am thinking by flush will clear any build ups and within a day or so want nutes (hence foilar) if not please correct me as I want to catch this quick

 

[pokerfish]

Yeah, the last set of pics are "normal" die-off from a nute deficiency. The reason I say that is that I will take a bunch of cuts from my mums, then not feed but h2o for several days, then start nutes, then starve them, then get them back to healthy. Reason is they grow too much between cuts, so starve them to slow. They usually go a light yellow color, then die back like yours (pretty sure this is N, but I am starving them, so several for me). You also have the red stems with those leaves, the one below is darker green (combo P def), & the up edges/dried/burned are the K/lack of ability to transpire. Most of the "crinkling" on the newer shoots is likely due to excessive heat, though a Ca may be contributing.

Here's the deal, you're in soil. Any changes you make will have an improvement, but is likely going to take a few days-week to resume full growth. Right now, they really don't look that bad, as in they should take off assuming the following:

1. heat is lowered (the leaf edges will tell you this). BTW, once the leaves are "damaged"/transformed, they will never really go fully back to normal. So expect for the previous symptoms/damage to leaves to remain till you cut down- they just won't get any worse, ya know? Everything else should grow healthy though...

2. pH balanced. Stop adding lime- you've done this a lot. Lower your pH to 6.5 (shoot for this with feed/run-off). Comparatively, they will give insight as to what is going on in your pots. If your soil pH is out of whack, all else will perpetually be wrong. In soil, it is best to work with a mix that you know well (where it is pH balanced) & address any tweaking before you plant by mixing in dolomite lime. You can get one premixed that is pH buffered already, if you don't already.

3. EC/TDS- I don't know anything about your levels at source (mix) or run-off. Again, the comparison will tell you a lot about nutes in the pots. See, your nute levels may be okay, but pH is screwing it up- this is most often the issue when people list off nute deficiencies... But if nute run-off is in line with source, then you will know this isn't the issue (no more flushing). If it is lower at r-off vs source, up the levels. If it is higher @ r-off vs source, flush & balance or lower levels (salt build-up). This is how it is in hydro... soil nutes, not so sure, so take with grain of salt here... Consult the soil forum for proper nute levels, but I would go 3/4 of what they are recommending (even for mj specifically)...

I think your plants are most likely a little water logged with all the efforts as of late. I DO NOT grow in soil, so my advice is limited. In hydro, or coir, we could flush, flush, flush until we got it right- don't think you can do this multiple days in soil without running the risk of drowning the roots, i.e., root rot & more issues (big ones).

Quite frankly, the heat may be the biggest issue (& they don't look that bad yet- like they could rebound real easily). When my veg trays go 76, the edges begin to lift. I can compensate a little in hydro however. Raise your lights, raise your lights, raise your lights even more. If you are getting prohibitively far from the plants, then you will need to rework ventilation/fanning/ac to get in line. Some varieties are hardier, some much less tolerant (something else to consider).

I run t5's in veg & hate them (you use cfl's, no?). Same issue, you really can't vent them very well vs air-cooled fixtures with the hps. In a closet, you will want to vent as much as humanly possible & remove all heat sources, i.e., move ballast out of room (flour's don't allow for this).

Sorry, to go on so long... tryin to hep...

 

[pokerfish]

Sorry, brother, just reread the entire thread & have an adjustment to previous post...

Just realized you said 3wks veg & you just ferted them. Again, I'm not soil, but to me, that is quite a while from their first dose/treatment. Realize that any manifest problems you notice today, went into effect several days to over a week ago. It takes time for deficiencies show, though the condition has been ongoing for a while, just unnoticed.

So, the combo def's listed before totally make sense. The heat is exacerbating the sit, no doubt. With K def, transpiration is hindered as well. Still, need your ec measurements before & @run-off, just as you gave with pH. On that note, maybe my earlier rec of 6.5 low. After reread, your values look solid... even the behavior of dropping a few points at r-off. This too is an indicator of what's going on in the root zone- a good one, that the plants, or rather soil, is eating/using the nutes.

Really, you're looking pretty good. Check your ec's to those recom with FF in the Soil Forum. ((I run my ppms lower than most recom (secret group of us...sssshhhh) & simply feed daily-- very few issues with burn & upping is quick & easy.)) Recomm you do something similar, esp while small. The damage from before will stop & the become isolated on leaf surfaces. All should perk up vigorously within few days... patience here. Seems you've done most correct, let them work! Best. Watch the temps... this will be your nemesis...

 

[Growstaman]

Sorry, brother, just reread the entire thread & have an adjustment to previous post...

Just realized you said 3wks veg & you just ferted them. Again, I'm not soil, but to me, that is quite a while from their first dose/treatment. Realize that any manifest problems you notice today, went into effect several days to over a week ago. It takes time for deficiencies show, though the condition has been ongoing for a while, just unnoticed.

So, the combo def's listed before totally make sense. The heat is exacerbating the sit, no doubt. With K def, transpiration is hindered as well. Still, need your ec measurements before & @run-off, just as you gave with pH. On that note, maybe my earlier rec of 6.5 low. After reread, your values look solid... even the behavior of dropping a few points at r-off. This too is an indicator of what's going on in the root zone- a good one, that the plants, or rather soil, is eating/using the nutes.

Really, you're looking pretty good. Check your ec's to those recom with FF in the Soil Forum. ((I run my ppms lower than most recom (secret group of us...sssshhhh) & simply feed daily-- very few issues with burn & upping is quick & easy.)) Recomm you do something similar, esp while small. The damage from before will stop & the become isolated on leaf surfaces. All should perk up vigorously within few days... patience here. Seems you've done most correct, let them work! Best. Watch the temps... this will be your nemesis...

Ok man, thanks again, lots of very helpful things to go check up on! I will try to get EC tester this week, as far as watering, you say hold off for now? I don't want to over water but they are getting dry and light again so it may be due soon... I am going to check most of these right now so i'll get back