Odd 240v electrical problem. Electricians?

[FlowerFarmer]

Ok,

Problem after problem lately. This one has me stumped. Maybe somebody with electrical knowledge can help me out.

Been running these 240v rely controllers for some time with no issues. Units like the CAP MLC-4, Sentinel HPH-4, Autopilot, etc.

The install is pretty simple for these 30a 240v controllers. I have a double pole 30a breaker in my main panel with 10/2 romex fed over to the two terminal (two hots) in the controller..and the ground.


To keep a long story kinda short here is what I've been experiencing. Took the controller out and just got around to installing it again. HPH-4 while all hooked up wouldnt fire anything up. Dual voltage ballasts fire up no problem at 120v, but fail to fire on this controller. Relay light is active and outlets are hot according to my little beepy pen tester.

So I figure it must be a bad HPH-4. I swap it for an autopilot 4 light controller and hook it up as usual. 2 hots/ground. It still doesnt work. Odd... My beepy pen beeps at the outlets and all the way to the mogul socket. I've got power, but nothing will light at 240v. So.. I switch my two hots in the double pole breaker so that each one is in the spot that the other was just in. It works.. I plug my trigger cable in and everything fires up. Great.

I didnt think it ever mattered which hot went where, but things were working now so I went along my way.

Then a few days later.. I unplug my trigger cable to do some work in the room and not risk bumping into a lamp. When I go to plug it back in.. same problem.. outlets are hot and nothing fires. I dick around for it for a second and eventually get it to fire by turning my Lumateks to 1000w..they fire up.. and back down to 600w (I was previously trying to start them from the 600w setting). Coincidence? I have no idea.

Go through the same issue again a few days later and nothing I do will get them to fire again. They eventually did fire back up on a later attempt, but I cannot determine what I did to resolve the issue this time.

These attempts are quite a while after the ballasts/bulbs have cooled down so I dont think its related to that.

I have 8 other lights on a MLC-8 firing just fine. They are installed on the opposite side of the main panel. They are 240v breakers so they are obviously grabbing both poles however.


What is my deal here?
200a panel..newer construction home. I've had issue in the past with not getting 120v out of each leg in an old shitty rental with ancient corroded panel, but cant see why id be having similar troubles in this newer home.


Any help?

 

[rives]

It sounds to me like you've got something going on with one hot leg. Do you have a volt meter, either digital or analog? Turn off everything in the sub-panel or unplug the controller - however you can test the feed circuit with no chance of feedback confusing the issue. Get a reading from one hot leg to the other, and see if you are close to 240v, and then from each hot leg to ground, where you should see 120v on each phase. If you don't have a volt meter (and don't want to buy one), then try swapping out the breaker at the main panel with a known good one. Exercising the contacts (flipping the breaker on and off repeatedly) may also take care of the problem, at least temporarily.

 

[Cali MedPatient]

I second getting a volt meter. They're not expensive, and it will help you figure out what's going on. You should be able to get one for about $20-30. Sounds like a bad wire, bad breaker, or loose connection. Make sure you crank down the lugs pretty tight!

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Right on.. I'll get a volt meter and check it out.


Over the last winter I was also previously having an issue with a distant 120v receptacle box in another area of the basement where there is a door. This is a double light switch..with a 4 outlet pack below it. One switch controls the basement ceiling light (which remained working).. the other switch controlled a motion activated outside "porch" light (which I'm pretty sure or at least though had burned out). It (the outside light and the outlets) were working one day and all of a sudden stopped working. Oddly it is now working again (inside outlets - not sure about the porch light). I'm unsure if this was related and previously ruled it out as a problem related to the outside motion light that was 3-wayed in or whatever..maybe moisture got inside of it and shorted something out.

Now I'm thinking it may all be related however I've experienced no other problems anywhere in the house and both the house AC, split AC, and 6400w room all fire flawlessly.

Will get a volt meter and start checking my hot legs.
I'll report back with my findings for more help or to possibly help others whom might encounter the same some day.


Another really odd thing is that the small fenced in "sub power plant" near my rural home is getting an upgrade. They've currently got a mobile truck rig taking the place of one of their older "setups" and building a new rig in its place. The truck appears to be a temporary supply while they get the new upgraded equipment in place and operating. Perhaps my issues are related to this.

Makes me uneasy.. wonder if I'm the reason they've got to upgrade their equipment in this small rural community. Paranoia is a bitch.. GE smart meter sure doesnt help. I've only ever ran on analog, but it is nice not having a meter man coming onto the property..

 

[OldSSSCGuy]

Like CaliMed and rives said it sure sounds like a leg issue. Bet that one of your hots is not....

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Should one of my legs be under 110-120v what is the likely solution?

A failing main 200a breaker? or perhaps just the 30a one I'm using here.
Something on the pole outside or my smart meter? I'm rural and have a large span to get to me... looks like there are a couple of those trash can looking transformer cylinder things on the poles leading to my property.

Panel is visually clean and rather new... installed in 05.

Hopefully this isnt a problem with my service (their side) and I have to bring my account to the attention of e-company service guys.

 

[rives]

Start checking back to see if the low leg is consistent throughout or if it is only on the load side of the breaker feeding the circuit giving you trouble. If it is on the top side of the 200 amp main, it is a utility problem. If it is ok there, but present on the busswork feeding the distribution breakers, it's in the main breaker or the connections in/out of it. If it is just on the one circuit that is giving you problems, it is that breaker or a bad connection.

If it is going under 110v, that is probably the issue, particularly if the two phases aren't close to the same voltage. You don't happen to have the one phase loaded much more heavily do you? You could dump all of the distribution breakers and see if the disparity goes away on the busswork. If so, your loads probably need balancing.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Grabbed a $20 volt meter and did some testing.

Main nugs hit 120v /ea when I touch one probe to it and one to ground. touching both lugs together I get 240v. Tested all the way down touching each breaker and ground. All seem to read 120v. the double pole breakers show me 240v when touching each spot..and 120v independently. Everything seems cool. I guess I'll have to wait until I experience the problem again and check some things.


Maybe its just the fact that I have 600w lamps in my 1K lumateks turned down right now. I've never had problems firing 1k lamps turned down, nor have I had problems running 600w lamps in them on an always on schedule. I've never ran 600w lamps in them before now, but they do fire 600w lamps every time if I try them on 120v. Its only the 240v strikes that are giving me the issues. Who knows. I'm about to toss 1000w lamps back in them and flip this 4 circles room to bloom so we'll see soon enough if my lights are going to turn on/off each time successfully.

Maybe it is still a failing breaker even though everything is testing good?
Its a double pole 30s that feeds my central air unit...which ran fine all summer. Now that its winter I disconnected the AC to steal this breaker for the winter months. Each terminal reads 120v when touched with a ground. Together the read 240v. Is there anything else I should be testing besides that?

I took an IR temp gun to the breaker face and nothing appears to be running really hot.