Nutrients and soil mix questions.

[Kev555]

I'm new and will be growing 5 plants. I recently bought 500 L. of black earth and I'm a little confused with nutrients. After reading many threads I've come out with the following mix:

SOIL MIX

50%...................Black earth: The basics.
20%...................Earthworm castings: Good for nutrients and other things.
30%...................Perlite: Good for airation and drainage.
? TB/L................Alfalfa Meal: Well balanced (2.5-1-1) and good for others nutrients.
1 cup/cub. foot....Dolomite Lime: Helps with pH and a source of Ca and Mg.

TEA

? TB/L.................Bat guano: High N for vegetation, high P for flowering.
? TB/L.................Alfalfa meal (grinded)
? TB/L.................Kepl meal
? TB/L.................Dolomite lime

Now my questions and problems are the following:

1. My water is considered hard. Since there will already be Ca and Mg in my water, will the Ca and Mg from nutrients cause problems?

2. I haven't tested it, but since my water probably has a pH of 8, is it a bad idea to add the dolomite lime?

3. Do I have a good enough source of potassium from the nutrients listed above?

4. I will have enough Ca and Mg, should I add something for Sulfur?

5. I am planning on hiding a big jug of water next to my grow area. If I cover it up and hide it from the sun, could it be a bad idea? Would having a second one with nutrients in it also be a bad idea?

6. Should I drop or keep the alfalfa meal in my soil mix?

7. Are there chances my soil could become too basic because of my hard water? If so, what oraganic nutrient should add to bring the pH down? I've searched a lot for my answer but found only vinegar which isn't considered very good.

8. Are there any nutrients or fertilizers I should add, remove, or replace?

9. And last of all, could anyone please help me out with the dosage. Direct help or a link would be very helpful since burning my plants would be the worst thing that could happen.

Anyway, sorry if this post is rather long but sometimes reading brings more questions.

Thanks.

 

[Kev555]

It seems like the size of my post scares people off. If anyone doesn't feel like going through my whole thread, could you please help me out with these essential questions, thank you:

1. Is my mix pretty well balanced and complete? Should I remove the alfalfa meal from my soil mix?

2. My water is considered hard. Since there will already be Ca and Mg in my water, will the Ca and Mg from the nutrients cause problems?

3. I haven't tested it, but since my water probably has a pH of 8, is it a bad idea to add the dolomite lime?

4. Are there chances my soil could become too basic because of my hard water? If so, what oraganic nutrient should I buy to bring the pH down? I've searched a lot for my answer but found only vinegar which isn't considered very good.

5. And last of all, could anyone please help me out with the dosage. Direct help or a link would be very helpful since burning my plants would be the worst thing that could happen.

 

[BurnOne]

Kev555-
Let me jump around a little here but still try to answer your most important questions...

It looks like you have everything you need for a complete grow there. You can look at the STICKY thread at the top of this forum "Organics for Beginners" for recipes. Substitute alfalfa meal for dried blood in the dry ingredients recipe. Alfalfa meal and kelp meal can be made into teas as well. But be careful, I burned some plants by using too much alfalfa. Go light at first then use more if the plants can take it. Alfalfa has growth enhancers in it that work very well in veg.
Powdered dolomite lime will be needed @ 1 cup/cubic foot of mix. I have never seen a problem with dolomite and hard water. The dolomite will try to adjust your pH to around 7 whether the pH of the medium/nute solution/water is high or low. So don't use any vinegar or pH down. The humic acids in the worm castings will buffer the pH of all liquids you pour into your grow medium.
The kelp meal will provide all the potassium you need as well as micro and macro nutes.
Don't use sulfur.
If you store water outside, make sure the temperature isn't too high. Water temps too high or low can shock your root system. If you mix nutes (teas) into your water, you'll need to bubble them continuously with an aquarium pump and airstone.
If it were me, I'd use the guanos in a tea and mix the kelp meal into the soil. That's all you need. Quick and easy. But hey, I understand how it is to want to experiment. Just settle on a tried and true recipe to come back to if something goes wrong.
Let me know if that clears things up for you. If not, we'll get 'er dialed in for 'ya.
Burn1

 

[Kev555]

Thanks a lot BurnOne! The only thing I'm missing is a couple doses. I decided not to add fertilizer in my soil from fear of burning my seedlings.

SOIL MIX

50%...................Black earth: The basics.
20%...................Earthworm castings: Good for nutrients and other things.
30%...................Perlite: Good for airation and drainage.
1 cup/cub. foot....Dolomite Lime: Helps with pH and a source of Ca and Mg.

TEA

Every 3 weeks

SEEDLINGS (Less than 1 month old)

Max1/5/gal cup.....Earthworm castings

VEG MIX

1/3 cup/gal............Bat guano(High N)
??? TB/L.................Alfalfa meal
1 TS/gal...............Kepl meal
??? TS/L.................Dolomite lime

FLOWERING MIX


2/3 cup/gal............Bat guano(High P)
??? TB/L.................Alfalfa meal
??? TS/gal...............Kepl meal
??? TS/L.................Dolomite lime


And just to make sure, since there will already be Ca and Mg in my hard water, will the Ca and Mg from nutrients cause problems?

 

[BurnOne]

Your water should not be a problem. There isn't enough calcium or magnesium in your water to supply your plants needs. Use the powdered dolomite lime as you posted.
If you want to mix dry guano into your soil mix you only need one mix for veg and flower...

1/3C hi N guano per gallon
1/2C hi Phos guano per gallon
1TBS Kelp meal per gallon

This needs to be used in a good medium. I don't know what you mean by "Black Earth". If you can get peat, here is a great mix...

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.

Will that work for you?
Burn1

 

[Kev555]

Here's the earth I'm using.

For the tea, I switch the cup values for flowering right? (1/2C of N guano, 1/3 of P guano for veg and 1/3C of N guano, 1/2 of P guano for flowering.)

Can I add 1/4 or 1/2 a TBS of alfalfa meal? 1 TBS will be too much?

And for the dolomite lime, I only add it to the tea when pH test results are bad?

Thanks again BurnOne.

 

[BurnOne]

Kev555-
Use that Black Earth in place of Canadian Sphagnum Peat.
Now you said you wanted to mix nutes into your soil and not use teas. Is that correct? The dry guano recipe I gave you is the exact same for veg AND flower. It doesn't change. Mix the guanos and kelp meal into your soil mix.
You can not use dolomite in a tea. It doesn't mix with water. It MUST be mixed into the soil mix.
Understand?
Burn1

 

[BurnOne]

Kev555-
I don't think you understand what a "tea" is. Think of making a cup of tea with a tea bag and a cup of hot water. The tea bag is a nylon stocking. The tea is guano. Don't use hot water. Growroom temp water is what you want.
Guanos and meals can also be mixed into your soil mix.
Let us know how you're doing with this.
Burn1

 

[Kev555]

Thanks a lot BurnOne! The only thing I'm missing is a couple doses. I decided not to add fertilizer to my soil from fear of burning my seedlings.

Tea is what you add to water every 3 weeks to feed your plants, is that right? The only thing I didn't know is that you can't dissolve dolomite lime in it.

The reason why I asked if I could switch the kinds of guano was because I thought you were talking about tea and because I've read in many threads that in vegetation the plant needs more N and in flowering more P. Also, higher P in vegetation produces more males, as said in an article by Dutch Passion:

1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female plants originating from the seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.

TEA

Every 3 weeks.

SEEDLINGS (Less than 1 month old)

Max 1/5 cup/gal........Earthworm castings

VEG MIX

??? cup/gal...............Bat guano (High N)
??? TBS/gal...............Alfalfa meal
??? TBS/gal...............Kepl meal


FLOWERING MIX


??? cup/gal.............Bat guano (High P)
??? TB/L.................Alfalfa meal
??? TS/gal...............Kepl meal

Could you please tell me the doses I'm missing and if the rest is correct?

Also, is it you who sent me a PM? I will only be able to read it once I reach 50 posts.

 

[BurnOne]

Okay, let's start at the beginning here. First, you'll need a grow medium. Here are two mixes you can use for any stage of growing. Germing, seedlings, clones, vegging, flowering and mothers...

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Check the link in my sig line below for cheap earthworm castings. Free shipping in the USA. (Except Alaska and Hawaii)

Or, if you use Pro Mix or Sunshine Mix...
LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up)
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.

...Choose the one that works best for what you have on hand or can get easily.

Now on to organic food for the plants. You'll need a balanced N-P-K (Nitrogen-Phosphorous_Potassium) for your plants. A ratio of 3-1-2 for veg and 1-3-2 for flower is ideal. But when mixing nutes into the soil mix, the plants will take what they need.

Now listen up Kev555... If I were you, here's what I would do...

After mixing my grow medium from the recipes above, I'd mix the kelp meal directly into the soil @ 1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix. Use that mix for vegging and flowering. You can also germ seeds in it or root clones in it. There is nothing in there to "burn" your delicate seedlings. Don't feed seedlings any nitrogen or you'll burn them up. Use worm casting tea and molasses ONLY for the first four weeks...

5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
1-cup earthworm castings
5 gallons of water every 3rd watering


Now, you'll need to make teas of guano for your N and P after the plants are a month old.

1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
*If you can get Peruvian Seabird Guano use 1/3 cup of it also. If not, leave it out.*
That is the dry mix for the tea. Now add 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses to 1-cup of the dry mix into 5 gallons of water and use it every 3rd watering.

Use the veg tea until the second week of 12/12 lighting for flowering to help with the stretching. After that, start using the flowering tea...

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano* if you can get it. If not, leave it out.*
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
That is the dry tea mix. Now make tea using 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses and 2 cups of the dry guano mix into 5 gallons of water and use it EVERY watering until harvest.
You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.

Does that explain it well enough. Let me know.

Burn1

 

[Smurf]

You've done a great job BurnOne,,,, Kev, I have just realised why you may have been a little confused...

Originally Posted by Kev555
The reason why I asked if I could switch the kinds of guano was because I thought you were talking about tea and because I've read in many threads that in vegetation the plant needs more N and in flowering more P. Also, higher P in vegetation produces more males, as said in an article by Dutch Passion:

Originally Posted by Dutch Passion
1. Level of nitrogen and potassium of the seedbed: A heightening of the standard level of nitrogen makes for more female plants originating from the seeds. A lowering of the nitrogen level shows more male plants. A heightening of the level of potassium tends to show more male plants, while a lowering of the potassium level shows more female plants. A combination of a higher nitrogen level for the period of a week or two and a lowering of the potassium level is recommended.

The P in N:K represents Phosphorus & the K represents Potassium, hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

Not to be fussy but I dont think the following is true....

Powdered dolomite lime will be needed @ 1 cup/cubic foot of mix. I have never seen a problem with dolomite and hard water. The dolomite will try to adjust your pH to around 7 whether the pH of the medium/nute solution/water is high or low. So don't use any vinegar or pH down. The humic acids in the worm castings will buffer the pH of all liquids you pour into your grow medium.

========================================================

I would be very interested to find that dolomitic lime has any ability to reduce ph.....

The dolomitic lime will react in acid ph....and neutralize...

and do next to nothing in 7.0 + ph....

 

[Guest]

Hi ppl......i also need some help with my ferts
here's another post i made in this thread
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=59680&page=1&pp=15
BTW....i,m already 10 days into flowering...

Hi guys , i got another fert......2:3:2....higher in the (P)
I couldnt find it in liguid form so i got the granular one....
Here's the g/kg ratio

64 N
94 P
64 K
5 Zn
71 S
144 Ca
7 Mg

they suggest 60/m2 in soil when planting
and 60g around shrub and repeat 2-3 times in folwering season....

now....i,d like to dissolve the granules in water and water feed them...
any sussegtion how to use this fert to its optimum without burning the plants..???

oh another thing ive got 12 plants in a 50cm*45cm*90cm(h) box...
planted in compost and grass cuttings bags


pls help......!!!!

can anybody help me to apply this granular fert.???
or direct me to a thread where its been discussed before...(granular ferts)

 

[BurnOne]

mobius-
That looks like a chemical fert you have there. Does it say anything about the ingredients on the label? My suggestion is use as directed on the label as with any nute.
Burn1

 

[Kev555]

Hey BurnOne, thanks a lot! I will do as you wrote.

For the molasses, are they available in about every store? If not I'll have to do without them.

Anyway, thanks again!

 

[Guest]

Hey Burn1...ye its a chemical fert,,,,,,,,the dry granular type(i know its not ideal)
can someone direct me to a thread where they discuss chemical ratio's

as in...... How many g/kg of a N, or (P,K) i need when...???

[edit]...sorry i see i,m in the wrong thread.......ive got chemical ferts
\direct me pls

 

[Guest]

Hey bros ; I am new 2 the grow game and i am reading the threads and gettin great info. But with sooo many different methods i still am confused as 2 when to start feeding my girls. they r 5wks from seed and i have 8 phenos 2strwberry coughs, 2 LA confident/cannalope hazes and 3 cali indicas. look great and about 5 inches tall with nice leaf and spacing. my question is i have the total advanced nutients line and will use sweet and sucanat 4 glucose. Do I still need atea 4 the veg process or do I stick with products I have because any more would be overkill?

 

[Kev555]

I have a small question about molasses...

Are they easily available or you have to order them from the internet?

 

[Smurf]

G'day Kev, most fodder stores will have the black strap molasses, a ball park figure of $4 / 2 litres. I've never ordered it over the net.

 

[Guest]

Kev, you get blackstrap molasses from some grocery stores, health food stores or animal feed stores (fodder stores, I believe, right Smurf?) Burn1...you and the whole OFC are a real service to this site. I have learned and relearned much from y'all. Thanks.