Nute problem or root rot? Or something else?

[Babocat]

Hello folks. Got some problems with some Superskunk 2 weeks into flowering, using a Dutch Pot recirculating system with clay pebbles, Atami B'Cuzz nutes. 21 plants in total. Plants were looking fine until about a week ago, when I upped the EC cos I thought they could handle it. One person I spoke to says he thinks I raised the EC/ppm too suddenly from about 1.6 to 2.0. I thought maybe I had root rot, it's difficult to tell cos as you can see from the pics I put Mineral Magic around the base of the stems and its yellowey/brown colour has filtered down onto the roots. Another reason I though it might be root rot is cos this time I forgot to put an airstone into my tank (putting that in tomorrow).

Anyone, one of the plants started wilting.- and then another one...it looked so bad that I took them out and stuck them into soil pots. I thought the same thing was going to happen to the others but so far they are still hanging in there.


With the last photo you can see one of the older leaves is wilting, but so far it hasn't got any worse.

I should add that over the last two days I have been feeding them water with Atazym.

 

[Weedhound]

Can't get your photos to come up but if your roots are sitting in water for any length of time then yes.....an airstone and oxygenation is critical or your roots can suffocate.

 

[Babocat]

I think you can see the photos now. I'm been having a look at those yellowing leaves now - first thought is maybe an iron deficiency, or nitrogen?

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Was this already happening before you started the Atazym? Isn't that a vitamin supliment? Is it supposed to be used with every watering?
What are your day/night temps?
Really...? No airstone...?

 

[Pirate]

I have never used an airstone in any rez for my flood and drains. Not saying not too. Just saying that has never caused problems for me.

Looks like you do have a N def as well as possible root rot. But you really need to provide more info.

What is your starting water PPM / PH?
Tap water or R/O?
What is your final solutions PPM / PH?
Did the problem start before or after bumping up the EC?
How long after you bumped up the EC did you notice the problem?
Rez tempatures?
Ambient room tempatures during lights on?
Room Temp.......Lights off?
Are the roots brown and slimy?
Any bad odor from roots area?
How many times per day do you water?
How many times do you water with lights OFF?
Is there any standing water after it drains in the buckets or table?
Have you tried Hygrozyme, flora sheild or anything like this yet?
Have you flushed the system since you've noticed the problems?
How far from a Hydro shop are ya?

 

[Weedhound]

Hey Pirate,

i don't consider flood and drain something that needs an airstone either...(although I doubt it would hurt either)......just wasn't sure what his system was. Might have had one too many myself and missed where he said flood and drain.

Just any sort of DWC type set up where the roots will be sitting in water for more than a few hours at one time. Had my airpumps go down one night and lost 1/3 of my plants to root suffocation but I use DWC/Drip.

 

[Weedhound]

And now that I can see the photos.......you have some bad problems.

Those looked pretty cooked. You say this happened after you switched your ec from 1.6 to 2.0 in one day?

I could go with root rot as well.

Best of luck but Pirate's right......more info.

 

[Babocat]

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What is your starting water PPM / PH? EC 0.1 (PPM 50?) PH 7.0
Tap water or R/O? Tap Water
What is your final solutions PPM / PH? PPM rising from 600 to 1000. PH 5.5-5.8
Did the problem start before or after bumping up the EC? Afterwards
How long after you bumped up the EC did you notice the problem? 3 or 4 days
Rez tempatures? 25ºC
Ambient room tempatures during lights on? 23º
Room Temp.......Lights off? 15º
Are the roots brown and slimy? Not really
Any bad odor from roots area? I don't think so
How many times per day do you water? Constant irrigation (recirculation)
How many times do you water with lights OFF? See above
Is there any standing water after it drains in the buckets or table? Some water at bottom, but not standing as always pushed out
Have you tried Hygrozyme, flora sheild or anything like this yet? Nope
Have you flushed the system since you've noticed the problems? Yes
How far from a Hydro shop are ya? Near enough

Thanks to Pirate, and everyone else, for chipping in. The problem is not getting any worse. I'm now running with an EC of 1.8 (PPM 900). I was duped into buying this truncheon type PPM meter with a flashing red light, the problem is that it shows 1.4 then 1.6 and then 2.0 with nothing in between, this was after my Milwaukee meter which I have used for a few years packed in. I have now bought a proper digital meter (Fastech). I've added an air stone which I bought from an aquarium shop.

I get the feeling that there's not anything wrong with the roots. The problem is it's hard to see because of the Mineral Magic which I put round the base of the stems, which kind of stains the roots a yellowy/brown colour.

What I see now is that while the plants are not getting any worse, a lot of the larger older fan leaves are going yellowy as you can see in the pictures. Some plants are worse than others.

The first two pictures show the plants when there were no apparent problems, taken on the 26th Jan and 31st Jan. There was perhaps a tiny bit of yellowing on some leaves on the 31st, and this was why I bumped the EC up to 2.0 (PPM 1000), also considering that I didn't see any signs of nute burn (like burnt tips etc).
http://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=769684&ppuser=77968
Imagen_015.jpg

 

[Pirate]

Everything sounds fairly normal to me. But why do you circulate the feeding instead of watering a few times a day? I would imagine that those buckets are designed for periodic feeding. I've never used em so I don't know but.........It looks like a normal flood a\nd drain set up to me.

When did you start using the Mineral magic? Did the problem start before or after? Again, never heard of mineral magic. IMO......anything that dyes or colors the roots also MAY clog them up. I would try to elliminate it FOR NOW. You can add it back later. What is it? like a paste or something?

So are you in soil now? (first post said you are)

 

[Babocat]

I guess I could put a timer on to the pump and just water a few times a day. But I think the idea with the GH Dutch Pot is that it's should be on all the time, otherwise I suppose the roots could dry out in the clay pellets. I've had the Mineral Magic on since the start and they were fine for the first two weeks (one week veg, one week flowering); it's a powder which you put round the stems, where it turns into a paste. Also made by General Hydroponics.

The two plants that sort of collapsed have been put into soil; one is recovering nicely.

See how everything looks tomorrow morning! Thanks Pirate

 

[Weedhound]

no airstone=root suffocation=root rot.

 

[Weedhound]

Also 15C is how much in F? Sounds cold to me but can't be sure without knowing the number translated.

 

[resinryder]

Damn you are running a strong nute mix. Looks like you're cooking em. I never go above 1.6 EC myself. Plants just dont need it that strong. With the nutes we use, less is more if you get my drift. Back the EC down after a good flush to get that strong dose down.

Weedhound-
His daytime temps, 23C= 73.4 F
Night time temps, 15C = 59 F

 

[Weedhound]

does 59F seem cold to anyone else? I've always been taught not to let your temps shift more than 10 degrees between lights on and lights off....(outdoor growing aside)...thoughts on that? Yay or nay?

And thanks for the translation RR.

 

[Weedhound]

I've never like the Blue Lab truncheons either.......couldn't get mine to calibrate half the time. Everyone's got their own favorites, but I love my Extech ph meter!

 

[Pirate]

I personally run my PPMs around 1300 but I use the Lucas Formula with GH nutes. Not familiar with Bcuzz. So maybe that is to high for the BCuzz.

59*F is low and I run my lights off temps around 70 to 75 in battle with Powdery Mildew. But I wouldn't say 59*F is the root problem.

Go with ResinRyders advice.........he's steerin you in the right direction.

I live by a simple rule:
"When in doubt, Flush it out"

 

[resinryder]

does 59F seem cold to anyone else? I've always been taught not to let your temps shift more than 10 degrees between lights on and lights off....(outdoor growing aside)...thoughts on that? Yay or nay?

And thanks for the translation RR.

My temps run in the low to mid 80's during the day. Heat fro the lights and CO2 push it up there. I actually prefer it in this range. However, night time temps, in bloom, I'll drop them to around 59 to 60 degrees or so on strains that are pron to have great color changes. If they stay mainly green all the way through I'll drop the night temps to 68 to 70 degrees and save the electricity.

Love my Truncheon meter. Never had a problem with it other than a battery change every year.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Plants were looking fine until about a week ago, when I upped the EC

Have you tried plain pH'd water for a day and then mixing up a batch of the original EC str?

Sounds to me like you answered your question in your question.

 

[Weedhound]

How about a photo of the roots themselves?

 

[Babocat]

Well they're still hanging in there. In one of the photos you can see a leaf which has totally wilted though the rest of the plant is more or less ok, well that leaf is now standing up again. By flushing them with Atazym for two days straight I saved their lives, probably. I think what happened is they started showing signs of a nitrogen deficiency so I went overboard with the nutes, not helped by my crappy EC meter which didn't show anything between 1.6 and 2.0. Now got the EC steady around 1.7 or so.

Weedhound, I don't want to take any photos of the roots cos it's quite a sensitive set-up, the roots have arranged themselves around the clay pebbles and I don't want them to break them by pulling out the plant. What I have done is take out some of the pebbles to have a look from above, and I think they're fine. Fingers crossed no root rot.

I guess those yellowing leaves are a nitrogen deficiency? Not iron?

More pics tomorrow. Thanks everybody! Hopefully in a month and a half I'll be able to show some harvest pics.