Nute burn?

[mikeraach]

What system are you running? Soil
What STRAIN are you growing? Arctic Sun and Mazar
What was the establishing technique? clone
What is the age of your plants? 5 weeks
How tall are the plants? 6" or so, but they were topped 2 weeks in.
What PHASE are the plants in? They're vegging
What Technique are you using? Uhh..technique?
What substrate/medium are you using? Soil (1/2 perlite, 1/4 earthworm casting, 1/4 unferted soil)
What Nutrient's are you using? I added a little bloodmeal and bonemeal to the soil mix, but I also add fox farm. I also usually add cal-mag as I've had a lot of mag def in the past.
When was your last watering? Flushed 2 days ago
What size bulb are you using? 150W HPS
What is the distance to the canopy? 6 inches
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? about 60%
What is the canopy temperature? 82
What is the Day/Night Temp? Day 75-85, night 70's.
What is the current Air Flow? 2 120mm fans and an exhaust
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Not sure
What water are you using? Tap (let it sit overnight)


These first 2 pictures were take when they were moderately healthy. This was 2 days after I fed them last (1/25). I think this was the turning point where I gave them too much food. Some of the leaf tips were yellow and the veins on the mazar were dark. At this point they were starting to get burn marks on newer leaves but still weren't turned down.

Arctic Sun:


Mazar:



They've still been growing, but very slow and they have gotten very pale with lots of curled down leaves and burns. I flushed a gallon of tap water through each pot (6") on monday but things still look the same. These pics were taken after I flushed them.

Arctic Sun:



Mazar:





Did I not flush them enough? Is it some other problem? I know they aren't over watered because I check by lifting the pot and only watering when they need it. I always check the ph of the water I feed them with, however when I flushed I didn't ph the tap water. Could this be a reason why they haven't bounced back? Are they rootbound? What are the symptoms of rootbound anyway?

Here are some up close pics of the affected leaves.

 

[mudvaynefan]

Sure does look like burn to me. It looks like mine when I burned them. Your in the start of it , flush now would be good.








Oh yea, I would ph the tap water. You may have ph issues due to the soil being hot, things change in extreme conditions.

 

[HeadyPete]

Magnesium deficiency, classic case. The brown spots are ph related, calcium def i think. Considering you omitted the ph info of the form i'll guess you aren't testing and adjusting ph. That is most likely why your magnesium is locked. Feed 8ml/L of Calmag, and a good dose of grow and get that ph checked and ideal (6.3). Do not flush anymore.

Mudvaynes plants are nute burn, nice and crispy....

 

[mikeraach]

I just didn't find the questionare for soil and I copy and pasted it from another user, they must have been hydro.

I always ph'd my waterings (minus the flush--stupid me) to 6.5. My runoff has been that as well, but I haven't tested for a few weeks. Isn't 6.3 a little low?

Oh, and another reason why I dind't think it was a cal/mag issue is because I had been watering 5ml/gal with all waterings previously. I was wondering if that might have been part of the problem, maybe too much. Should I have only been adding it when I was feeding?

 

[MynameStitch]

Magnesium deficiency, classic case. The brown spots are ph related, calcium def i think. Considering you omitted the ph info of the form i'll guess you aren't testing and adjusting ph. That is most likely why your magnesium is locked. Feed 8ml/L of Calmag, and a good dose of grow and get that ph checked and ideal (6.3). Do not flush anymore.

Mudvaynes plants are nute burn, nice and crispy....

This is the answer right here!

Magneisum all the way.

 

[HeadyPete]

5ml/gal is actually kinda weak, basic maintenance amount for CalMag. The bottle recommends 8ml/gal for aggressive formula and I recommend that dose for now, till you see some improvement. MJ sure uses a lot of cal and mag, especially as flowering starts ramping up, and some strains are bigger pigs than others..

6.3 is the middle of a range of ph from 5.8 to 6.8 and it is perfect. Any higher or lower than this range and you will get lockouts. Your 6.5 is fine assuming your tester/pen is calibrated and accurate, although it's been weeks since you tested and it could be way out by now...... What do you test with? You must test nute ph and runoff everytime you water. I use a calendar to record my doses and info and ph, so I know how much to adjust next time. Eventually big swings will settle down to more stable swings as you keep correcting ph and you won't have to ph your ferts so much.

 

[mikeraach]

Took your guys advise and watered them again (a little early, but they weren't super heavy). I checked the runoff and the ph was 6.5 for the Mazar and 6.6 for Arctic Sun. I use a fish tank ph tester and used the first amount of runoff that came out.

I took some pics today and compared them to 3 days ago and it looks like they weren't getting any worse, but the color was still really pale.

I also realized that it had been over 2 weeks since I last fed them, so I gave them a light feeding. Hopefully it wasn't burned before because if it wasn't a calmag problem, I probably just made things worse.

Today I gave them (per gallon) ½ tsp Grow Big, 8ml calmag, 1 tbsp big bloom, ¼ tsp open sesame, ph 6.4

 

[MynameStitch]

Also with the other pic looks like phosphorus problem too...... petey see the last pic the thread starter posted, see how the splotches are in between veins, this is what I was refeering to what a phosphorus problem looks like..

 

[mikeraach]

After transplanting and giving 12ml/gal cal mag it looks like things are recovering nicely now. The growth on the mazar still looks a little funny, and some of the tips on both plants are slightly burnt looking. I just wanted you guys to look at it and tell me what you thought. I'm just a little confused about what plants start to look like when they are over fed. The guide says the tips begin to burn just before they have too much. Am I already at that point?


Mazar (new growth is much more green, but still looks a little funny):





Arctic Sun:

 

[sirgrassalot]

That's a little burn on the tips but the cal mag should soon rid it of that either way that's where you want her to be is on the edge of overfed.

 

[MynameStitch]

Sirgrassalot, you may know some stuff, but somethings you are not catching, you are letting things slip right past you.

Mike, do not use that amount of cal mag, cut it back to around 4 or 5 ml per 4 liters of water. You keep using that, you will look out other nutrients, your plants do not have burn at all, but your plants were lacking some nutrients, looked like magneisum, calcium and phosphorus.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Again with the crap. I have a nice personality, you can't learn that. I'm here to help & learn. You think you don't need to learn & keep up with the times? I'd be adding a HH Syndrome (off gassing) section to my guide if it were mine.

 

[MynameStitch]

You are letting little things slip by that is very important, 12ml of cal mag is outragious and would cause any kind of issues with the plant, that would amount to a block and cause other nutrients to not be absorbed properly.

I already know very much about the HH issue, I was there when it started and I helped spread the word around like many other people have, you know this you were here under many differet handles and if I were you, I would stay banned, your obvious your not wanted cause your bullshit information.

sirgrassalot= black velvet

 

[sirgrassalot]

MynameStitch = Not a fucking clue.

 

[Ziggaro]

sooo... y is he getting cal/mag issues when he is already using 5ml/gallon? Could it be the TBS of fox farm he uses??

I don't know if you should have fed them again, brother...

 

[mikeraach]

I need to water tonight so I figure I'd give a few more fresh pictures.

The Mazar:



And a Mazar clone. Up until now its been looking great, but now its got a few spots on the outer edges of the upper leaf and some yellowing on that same leaf.



And lastly the Arctic Sun that was looking back to normal but seems to be starting to yellow like the Mazar clone above.




I have my own guesses as to what the problem is, but thats just it, guesses. I would like to not play as much of a game with my girls and give them what they want so they are happy I also need to flower within the week since they are filling the cab up, so I was thinking of starting them on some flower nutes and cal mag. What do you guys think?

 

[sirgrassalot]

Damn that's not good. I never used that cal-mag I only need some Epsoms once in a while in veg & one spray has always worked. If I'm looking at the right product it's 15-5-15 << I don't think this is it. I wouldn't advise that at all if the plants showed a burn which I did think they had along with a MG issue. I'll check it out. Not that I need any other product. But I wasn't addressing that cal stuff except for what it is. Having a good supply of my own bud has helped the memory.

The product does say:
"Cal-Mag Plus helps prevent blossom end rot in tomatoes and peppers, stunted growth rates, tip burn in lettuce and cabbage, dry and withered flower and fruit set, upward leaf curl and interveinal chlorosis by increasing cell division, plant tissue development, flower and fruit sets."

http://www.4hydroponics.com/nutrients/calmagplus.asp

 

[mikeraach]

I've never had a run that has not needed calmag addition. Maybe its just FF ferts that have this problem, but it is a common theme with the strains I've tried.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Someone mentioned you used 12ml of the cal-mag but did you actually add 20ml. You seem to of added it twice an earlier 8ml than transplanted? Just as I said I don't use it, so did you over do it? You did water a little early but you'd be the better judge on that. They don't appear droopy.

 

[MynameStitch]

cal mag is more readily available than epsom salts is, just be careful with the amount you use with the cal mag.

You had some old tip burn and the tan necrotic spots you are seeing is the tissue that is died due to the recent problem, just because they are changing does not mean a new problem arises, I am talking about the tan stuff, not something else.

What wattage of lighting are you using and how close is it?
Looks like the top part of the plant is getting too much dry heat.