nute burn/cal-mag def/ph flux issues maybe??

[John goodman]

hello all im new around here and ive been researching to find ut whats going on with my plants??? ive been growing for 7 yrs and never had this??

ive been using gh micro & grow NO bloom (first time ive used it) as i was only goner use it for the first wk or two before i put canna bloom nutes in..I thought it wouldnt do any harm??....I would usually use formulex but i had 6 ltrs of the GH series range..the system has been ticking along for 7 days at ph5.6 after 3 days upto ph 5.8.....went away for a few days came back and ph was 5.4 the ec has been ec1.0-1.2 all the duration without me having to top up..my ladies are at 6-10" and in veg and were doing brilliant great growth etc...i started flower on Sunday just gone ...dont know if that was a good idea but i had to due to it being a aeroflo system (didn't want them too high)

the big fan leaves are mottling bronze gold and crispy all over the plant randomly ....i thought over fert straight away as i have some clawing to signify this ...leaves are very dark aswell but no tip burn??? new growth looks a little bit stunted and twisted with clawing BUT again only on half of my plants ??? Ive never encountered this b4 and ive run this strain b4 ?? lights are at least 2ft away and plants are 6-10" ...res temps are 18-22c...room temps are 25-28c also humidity is 40%


please let me know your thoughts ....Ive since removed all nutrients and just been running ph'ed water at 5.6 for the last 8 hrs ...ive since put a full veg and bloom in tank....3/4 veg and 1/4 bloom canna aqua at ec 1.2 ph 5.6

NB i couldn't get any more shots until i charge batteries... BOLLOXS

if you need any more info let me know

thanks in advance for any help received

PS im going back to coco after this hehe

SOZ PICS NOW
pics of leaves and some when first when on my system some of them looking very dark green then about 2-3 day after that clawing on the new growth and major mottling...but res indicated it was fine on ec.1.0 ph 5.6 -5.8....i also check meters b4 and after re calibrating and all was fine?? im stumped HELP!!!! pics are from 1day -15 days

U RECKON CAL AND MAG DEF DUE TO NOT USING THE BLOOM ?????

LAST grow pics

 

[MynameStitch]

You got any pics of them? Edit: nm posted before you got the pics
damn man that is a nice grow pics :tup:

Sounds like a deficiency; plants do not go from just doing fine in veg and few days later have issues... has to be something that is a void in your mixture.
If they were doing just fine before flower then it either has to be ph related or nutrient situation as long as the root system of your plants are not infected.
Another thing; you want to keep a stable temp; going up and down is not good; how often do you test your res temps, ppm and ph?

Also did you listen to the directions on the back of the box when mixing them properly?

What do you have in your res now just the cana aqua veg bloom product?

Are you using RO or filtered water tap?
If you are using RO water without cal mag you ask for trouble....

Edit: Ok I was looking up some other information... here is the thing.
Ok while you were growing them in veg, reason why you did not have any problems is, because in vegging cannabis uses nitrogen and phosphorus the most, as soon as flowering kicks in the plant uses less nitrogen but needs more phosphorus and potassium levels. To me the mixture you were using

GH flora grow and micro using just those 2 through out the veg was not enough phosphorus, so now since you are in flowering your problem looks to me is phosphorus Deficiency.

Only phosphorous causes blotching in between the veins like that; not to mention the purplish hue and bronzing color it leaves; and mainly affects in between the leave veins itself.
1/4 amount of phosphorus is not going to cut it.

Some of those small plants are starting to look like a magniseum deficiency is coming on too..

 

[John goodman]

You got any pics of them? Edit: nm posted before you got the pics
damn man that is a nice grow pics :tup:

Sounds like a deficiency; plants do not go from just doing fine in veg and few days later have issues... has to be something that is a void in your mixture.
If they were doing just fine before flower then it either has to be ph related or nutrient situation as long as the root system of your plants are not infected.
Another thing; you want to keep a stable temp; going up and down is not good; how often do you test your res temps, ppm and ph?

Also did you listen to the directions on the back of the box when mixing them properly?

What do you have in your res now just the cana aqua veg bloom product?

Are you using RO or filtered water tap?
If you are using RO water without cal mag you ask for trouble....

thxs stitch ...well this has been 2 wks growth and now looking at my pics they are all the stages....ive only used...micro & grow from the GH range and that seems to be the underlining issue which i didn't think would matter that much ...dumb i know but i thought i only need what in the veg stuff hehe ..well ive only been in flower since Sunday just gone...roots are fine...I test my res twice a day evening 3 times ....but b4 i put into flower i was away for 3 days..and the ph dropped and ec stayed the same....so i would usually top off with water to stablize the nutrients and up the ph a bit...I DIDN'T READ THE INSTRUCTIONS ON BACK AS I MISSED THE BLOOM PART but did equal amounts of micro and bloom ??? maybe that it !! well that what i think...

I dotn use RO ..but my background ec is 0.4 very hard...

yes i only have cann aqua veg and bloom ....veg 3/4 and bloom 1/4

so what u reckon cal-mag ?

thanks for the comments man ..still trying to get used to uploading pics

any more thoughts ..when batteries are charged i will get pics of the clawing on new growth and how dark they are ??

im none the wiser

PS if u have sent me a PM i cant get as i havent posted 50 posts i think ???

 

[MynameStitch]

ok, then that would explain why you are having the issue; with high levels of calicum phosphorus absorption goes hay wire..... they have a nutrient like for hard water.......

do you have various growths in this system or are they all in flowering?

If you are using tap water the last thing you want to add is calcium, you have plenty of it and it seems like it's giving you issues with what little phosphorus the plant has.

you need to use both grow and bloom for right now just until they get to mid to late flowering then cut off the nitrogen (grow) of course you know that... sorry I hell out a lot of new people and I tend to say stuff that the grower may not know about.

Since you are using tap this is what you need

FLORA MICRO® HARDWATER:

If your tap water is over 200 ppm (or contains Calcium above 70 ppm), use Flora Micro Hardwater. If your water contains 30 to 50 ppm Calcium, you can mix our original Flora Micro with Flora Micro Hardwater to create a perfect Micro blend for your plants.


While you are adding the micro to your water you are getting more calicum into the water...... high levels of calicum affect phosphorus.

Edit: I did send you a pm; forgot about the 50 pos thingy!
in my other thread you said you googled me; how did you find me and what did you type in ?

 

[John goodman]

ok but im using canna aqua now..this should be alright ???..the reason for the mix of veg and bloom now is to get a better spectrum....I need to re read it (what u said above) again to digest..i got your name from Google when i put in calcium def in cannabis and many other sites pointed to here or your revised version around www...

so u think i did the right thing ? dump,flush and replenish with full spectrum nutrients how long u reckon this will take to see thru ..rectify ? so what was your final diagnosis ? im thick as shit to be honest,,,i need it in laymen terms

 

[MynameStitch]

Yes, you did the right thing; which ones are you using the grow and bloom ? Which line of canna aquas? flores? vega?

It won't take long to fix the issue since your growing aero/hydro.
I would say few days at the most.

How much of each are you using.. what are your ppms now with the new mixture?

When did you add the new nutrients to them after tou started having problems?
Dude I googled that and that is scary! I did not know my name came up so much when you typed that in......

 

[John goodman]

Yes, you did the right thing; which ones are you using the grow and bloom ? Which line of canna aquas? flores? vega?

It won't take long to fix the issue since your growing aero/hydro.
I would say few days at the most.

How much of each are you using.. what are your ppms now with the new mixture?

When did you add the new nutrients to them after tou started having problems?
Dude I googled that and that is scary! I did not know my name came up so much when you typed that in......

im glad i found you to be honest u seem to add a wee bit more than what jorge cervantes says with real pics...to add....mixture is canna aqua veg and bloom...ec 1.2 ph 5.6...about around the 180ml for veg and about 50ml for flora there abouts ..i know it wasnt half half if that makes sense...thxs for your time man ...i apreciate it ...i noticed it on friday just gone and keep the nutrient level low 0.8 thinking it was overfert and it just seem ed to get dark and the new growth (very little ) was clawed and distorted ...then i flushed out yesterday and then left it running plain water ph'ed then about 8 hrs of flush i dumped and then add the mix of cann nutrients as mentioned above...how can i get me pm's ? hope that makes sense ...soz missed this ...all in flower as of 21st of oct

 

[MynameStitch]

Well that was nice

Ok which ones, there is canna aqua vega and canna aqua flores... each have different npk's


In about a week add more bloom than grow; cause even though they are in flowering now; they still need veg nutrients, because they just do not kick into flowering mode right away, takes a bit before they stretch and when they start the stretch and massive growth spurts it's time to use more phosphorus than veg; to much veg and it will slow down the flowering process.

 

[John goodman]

so what u reckon it was ...? cal mag etc ...i know that i missed out the bloom from the gh range my downfall but what def or what ever u reckon it was ...I will add pics of the dark clawing of the above aero system then when fingers crossed it sorts it self out?? well thanks stitch pleasure speaking

 

[MynameStitch]

The problem was you had high levels of calcium added , caused by the water already being tap, and the micros you were using.+ the low amount of phosphorus your nutrients had + giving that high levels of calcium cause issues with phosphorus add that up and when flowering time came there was not enough.


Also.....

Ok which ones, there is canna aqua vega and canna aqua flores... each have different npk's

See when you use tap water you have to given in account the calcium magnesium in the water and add that to your nutrients and when you add your nutrients to the water depending on how hard your water is it makes it difficult for the plant to absorb nutrients. because you can have high amounts of calicum and mag but when you add your nutrients and try to get within a range you end up having high ppms due to the hard water and it can make it difficult to control.

as for the canna aqua series reason why I was askin which one is one the npk and the 2nd... canna aqua series can be difficult to control in very hard water... have you tested your ph right out of the tap before and after letting the water sit out?


How many systems do you have running? You have a setup in veg and flower?

Clawing of the leaves can be caused by various things, one of the signature clawing is from adding to much nitrogen; but I am not saying that is what is causing your issue.. I would have to see pictures first to give you an answer.

 

[John goodman]

OK i get the bit about not a cal deficiency... excess cal in my case...but the symptoms were clear b4 i put into flower ...ive only been in flower like 48hrs? Im only trying to understand my problem ...thxs

 

[MynameStitch]

When did you switch your nutrients after you had the problem right?

You switched from GH to Canna after you flushed the GH out right? So when you put them into flowering your system already had canna aquas in there right?

 

[John goodman]

When did you switch your nutrients after you had the problem right? YES
You switched from GH to Canna after you flushed the GH out right? YES

How many systems do you have running? You have a setup in veg and flower? I have a few system ..my mothers are in coco..i use rockwool and aero for cloning ...i veg on the aero system usually for 1wk + depending on strains ...ive used canna aqua for more than 6 grows with no issues before ...i usually use formulex for all stage's of my veg usually...then use the bloom nutrients ...I thought i would give thee GH range ago as ive got a few bottles lying around and only thought i would need the micro and veg parts

have you tested your ph right out of the tap before and after letting the water sit out? YES and the results are 7.5 straight out and then settles to 7.0-7.2

Ok which ones, there is canna aqua vega and canna aqua flores... each have different npk's...I sorry im getting confused here aqua vega is for veg and aqua flores is for flower?? im using both at a ratio of 3/4 veg and 1/4 flower as mentioned with only 48 hrs in flower since yesterday...my reason for this is to a fuller spectrum as i didn't know what it was...i only =knew that i didnt use the 3rd part of the gh range bloom and my ph was bang on and my ec was low very low...i flushed then added the above

PIC 2 on the first thread is 2 days on system
PIC 3 is 6 days on system
PIC 4 is 10 days on system .
PIC 5 is 12-15days on system
I will get more pics tonight when i get home...and i will show u the clawing

thxs for your patience man..appreciate it

 

[MynameStitch]

ok then you have mid range which would speak why you would not have issues in the past with them, anything over 9 would have issues. You have semi softened water but pretty much near neutral.

Ok, so then all the advice I gave stands.
You had low levels of phosphorus in your system and when plants get bigger they require more and since you left them with low level nutrients it made matters worse when you thought it was nutrient burn.

Calicum you had plenty of it and was causing issues with what little bit of phosphorus you had in your system.
the canna aqua has trace elements in them; lists iron but nothing else.....
as for calcium and magniseum you should not have issues with deficiency but still watch for them.

 

[John goodman]

ok then you have mid range which would speak why you would not have issues in the past with them, anything over 9 would have issues. You have semi softened water but pretty much near neutral.

Ok, so then all the advice I gave stands.
You had low levels of phosphorus in your system and when plants get bigger they require more and since you left them with low level nutrients it made matters worse when you thought it was nutrient burn.

Calicum you had plenty of it and was causing issues with what little bit of phosphorus you had in your system.
the canna aqua has trace elements in them; lists iron but nothing else.....
as for calcium and magniseum you should not have issues with deficiency but still watch for them.

basically a complete imbalance then ...N was fine (but towards the ends that all it had..sort of indicating overfert) and when bigger needed more P but this was effected by the calcium and mag already in the nutrients & water ..am i getting warm hehe much appreciated ..so i should be ok then stitch..just so i dont forget this stuff ...hehe ...very strange ive never had anything like this b4 ..ever ...well again thank you for ya time ..i will defiantly post pics tonight of current status and update when it sorts itself out...hopefully

so i was close hehe

PS what effect will this have on grow now..i can cull if u reckon is a waste of nutrients light etc etc .... i got some chronics and other bits and bobs on the sidelines ? ...i'll give it 1-2 wks see what happens ...thanks again ..asset to this community
MAY HELP OTHERS
AQUA VEGA A & B
NPK : 6 - 3 - 8
6,0 % N (total)
1,3 % N (NH4)
4,8 % N (NO3)
2,8 % P2O5
(1,2 % P)
6,9 % K
(8,3 % K2O)
2,0 % Ca
(2,8 % CaO)
1,0 % Mg
(1,6 % MgO)
1,1 % S
(2,8 % SO3)
0,007 % B
0,001 % Cu
0,03% Fe (DTPA)
0,02% Fe (EDDHA)
0,02 % Mn
0,002 % Mo
0,007 % Zn
0,05 % SI


AQUA FLORES A & B
NPK : 4 - 4 - 11
4,1% N (total)
0,4 % N (NH4)
3,7 % N (NO3)
4,2 % P2O5
1,9 % P
9,2 % K
11,1 % K2O
1,7 % Ca
2,4 % CaO
1,2 % Mg
2,0 % MgO
2,0 % S
5,0 % SO3
0,01 % B
0,002 % Cu
0,03 % Fe (DTPA)
0,03 % Fe (EDDHA)
0,03 % Mn
0,003 % Mo
0,01 % Zn
0,07 % Si

 

[MynameStitch]

was not a complete imbalance just was to much of certain nutrients.
mainly high level of calicum and low level phosphorus.

Yes you got it correct
For now you should be alright; just keep tabs on them the damaged leaves will not recover so check the semi older growths to make sure it's not spreading.


your strain you are growing have you been growing this same strain through one seed and then using clone after clone after clone? Or growing with seeds?

Cause you can get different pheno's of the strain when you grow out different seeds.

Edit: ya you should be set man with those. Just watch out for magnesium cause some strains are hungry for it than others and other may not need as much. I am sure you won't have any other issues unless it's ph related or adding to much nutrients.

Just make sure you keep checking the ph and keep stable ppm's water temps and such and you are all set!

 

[John goodman]

NICE ONE STITCH pic will be up later of the sorry looking ladies....

clones and seed ..I'll get a thread up soon ..

 

[MynameStitch]

Alrighty, just let me know

Different phenos can vary from nutrient's and amounts and such which is why you did not see this before, now if you were growing from clone to clone to clone, meaning taking a clone from a clone from a clone ect...... and using the same nutrients then it would have to be grower error ( well most of errors are growers error) lol

so to make it easier on ya, seeds= random phenos if the strain is not stable
clone= stable if you have not had problems with previous grows with this clone.

 

[John goodman]

Alrighty, just let me know

Different phenos can vary from nutrient's and amounts and such which is why you did not see this before, now if you were growing from clone to clone to clone, meaning taking a clone from a clone from a clone ect...... and using the same nutrients then it would have to be grower error ( well most of errors are growers error) lol

so to make it easier on ya, seeds= random phenos if the strain is not stable
clone= stable if you have not had problems with previous grows with this clone.

sorry totally mis understood ...all them plants are clones on the aero...defiantly user error m8 ...NO denying that

u make it easy for me stitch ...ive been growing for 7yrs and never had this problem ..i just wont change my nutrients or be a tight arse for not buying formulex and stick to what is not broken ...cheers

 

[MynameStitch]

Np man! let me know an update k