Not sure if my plants are sick or not

[MPL]

There is some yellowing on a couple of the leaves. Mostly at the tips, though there are a couple of spots further up on one or two of the leaves. Overall there is very little color variation; the color is a nice, rich green color on the leaves as is the stem.

I am posting this as the plants are rather droopy and have been since I got them home and under the HID. I thought by now they'd have picked up a bit but not so. I'm hoping they were just a bit overwatered and that they're trying to recover. Only the larger leaves are droppy, the smaller ones are quite perky for the most part. I think these larger leaves must have been the originals that were left on when the cutting was taken.

No pictures right now, though I'll try to get some up later.

Any other advice is appreciated! Thanks!


*NOTE: Please Cut And Paste only the section that applies and add your responce.

ARE YOU USING?

SOIL: Expert Gardener Organic Potting Soil Mix. I will be switching to Fox Farm Ocean Forest when they are ready for larger pots.
What STRAIN are you growing? Super Skunk
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? I've had them for 24 hours
How Tall are the plants? 1 is 6", the other is about 5"
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) Just going to LST them when they get into their final pots
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 10oz. or so disposable cup, one plant each
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) I mixed the soil with perlite, about 60/40 soil/perlite
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* None at the moment
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? N/A
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.3 - 6.4
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Aquarium kit, put drops in a vial and shake
How often are you watering? Only watered them once - when I put them into the soil I watered to 10% runoff. I think they might be slightly overwatered as when I picked up the clones they were in rockwool that was saturated. Not sure if they had just been watered or kept like that though.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? N/A
What size bulb are you using? 400w CMH
What is the distance to the canopy? About 16"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) Not sure, I'm in CA, so it's not high, even with the recent rains
What is the canopy temperature? 72F-74F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) <4 degrees
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) Unknown - this isn't in a cabinet yet, but rather a small room that is open to the rest of the house - plenty of air flow due to ceiling fans however
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? No, it is pulling up around the plants
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? The rockwool was saturated when I received the plants, however right now the soil seems fine - a bit damp but not soaked. As I said, I've only watered once, and that was just to get the soil settled when I put the rockwoolbound plants into the soil mix
Is your water HARD or SOFT? N/A, see next line
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Using RO/DI water, which comes out of the filter around 7.4 pH but 99.99% pure
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? None
Are plant's infected with pest's? Right now I am saying no, though one or two of the leaves do have some white spots on them. I'm keeping a close eye on it and once the plants are more established I intend to do some light spraying with neem oil

 

[MPL]

Alright here are some pics.

You know they kinda look like they need to be fed.

 

[HeadyPete]

Your potting mix is way hot for those small plants. The tips and drooping are from nteburn and if you don't transplant they could be dead soon. That soil has time release fert, organic but still, you can't flush it all out. You need to transplant asap to seed starting mix or potting soil with no added nutes. Make sure to add 40% perlite to your soil mix for better drainage, or use coco coir and no perlite.

When fert concentration (salts - not table salt) in the soil is too high, higher than in the plant, water moves from plant to soil and mimics underwatering, but it is not from that. This is why your lawn burns when you dump a spot of fert on it.

BTW, you can LST them now (or as soon as they recover). Start bending and training them now, no need to wait. Plants bend best when they are thirsty.

 

[MPL]

They were doing this before I put them into the soil, but I'll go ahead and transplant them today. They aren't looking any worse but not any better.

Should I rinse the current soil off of their roots and then put them into different soil?

I kind of thought pH might be the problem, but I double-checked and the runoff is still between 6.3 and 6.5, so I guess that is not it.

Thanks!

Your potting mix is way hot for those small plants. The tips and drooping are from nteburn and if you don't transplant they could be dead soon. That soil has time release fert, organic but still, you can't flush it all out. You need to transplant asap to seed starting mix or potting soil with no added nutes. Make sure to add 40% perlite to your soil mix for better drainage, or use coco coir and no perlite.

When fert concentration (salts - not table salt) in the soil is too high, higher than in the plant, water moves from plant to soil and mimics underwatering, but it is not from that. This is why your lawn burns when you dump a spot of fert on it.

BTW, you can LST them now (or as soon as they recover). Start bending and training them now, no need to wait. Plants bend best when they are thirsty.

 

[HeadyPete]

What did you check ph with?

Yes rinse the roots carefully.

 

[MPL]

Like I said in the original, I used a fishtank tester where you add the drops to change the color. I used similar tests on my marine aquariums where pH had to be within a .2 - .5 range and never had any problems, so I figured it was accurate enough for the plant.

Alright, so pull the plants out of the cups, rinse the roots with pH'd water (6.5 is what I would use, this is correct yes?) and place them in a completely inert medium? They were rooted in rockwool, I should leave this part alone right?

I do have one question - they aren't showing any worse yellowing/drooping since I got them, and they've only been in the soil about 36 - 48 hours. Are you sure the soil is the problem and not something else? I'm afraid of stressing them out even more from changing soils, but if that's what needs to be done to save 'em then that's what I'll do.

 

[MPL]

HeadyPete

Alrighty, I moved my plants from the original mix and put them into some light warrior. I pH'd the water using some strips I got at the garden shop and the aquarium pH tester and got 6.4-6.6 pH on each test. I tested the runoff and my better than 20/20 eyes tell me the pH is right at 6.5. I mixed the soil FFLWERLITE 2:1 as the LW already had quite a bit of perlite in it.

Talk about a really, really light and FAST draining mix! I like it so far. Almost like a hydro medium. I'll probably have to water every other day while using this mix.

I'll get some pics up later, and hopefully tomorrow I will see some improvement.

Thanks for the advice mate!

 

[MPL]

BTW, assuming I have done everything right, and all is now well, how long until I see some improvement?

 

[MPL]

Alrighty, here are some pics a few hours after the transplant. This is my first grow, so I'm really not sure what to look for as far as signs of improvement/degradation go, so anymore input is appreciated.

There is new growth on the bottom nodes near the soil, and at the top of the plant. These were from clones thus the length of stem. I need to put an oscillating fan on them, I think that might help some with the droopiness, because the smaller leaves don't seem so bad, it's just the larger ones.

I had a friend who is a very talented amateur photographer take these pics for me, so they should be quite a bit better than the other set I posted.

I left them in the rockwool they were rooted in, as I didn't wanna mess with the roots any more than I had to.

Using strips and aquarium pH tester:

Water pH = 6.4 -6.6 (I used GH pH down)
Runoff pH = 6.4 - 6.6
Soil = FF Light Warrior, 1 part perlite 2 parts LW.


Current lighting is two 40w 4' T12s while they acclimate to the new soil. I'll put them back under the 400w CMH before I go to bed tonight.

 

[MynameStitch]

Personally I honestly don't think this is a nutrient burn issue, the tip burn is old, there is no way the tip burn can go that color of tan in 24 hours.......it's already been past the point of necrotic. This clone had to of been taken from a plant that had nutrient burn......

Did the clones have roots when you put them into the soil?

They look like they are over watered than anything else and given the fact they were in rockwool when you got them, they looked like they had been burned in the past, but ime that plant is not suffering from nutrient burn.
It's more suffering from over watering and the plant is starting to lock out nitrogen, most likely from it being too wet and given the fact it was a clone.

How much roots did this clone have when you put it into the soil?
Given the fact it's a clone and clones most of the time yellow when they root that plays a factor too.

Your mixture you are using, does it say it has peat moss in it?
You should be getting a pH meter, the method you are using to test the pH is not as accurate. You can buy a pH pen and some calbrating solution, or if you are on a budget, you can buy some pool pH test strips. Make sure it has a pH range it reads on the back, the colors will tell you a lot more than the liquid test you are using and stay away from those probes......

I need to know the questions I asked before I could tell you how to fix it first..

 

[MPL]

Yes, they had roots. They were poking out of the rockwool. They have some new root growth right above the rockwool, where I had them in the soil.

They were very much soaked when I received them, and overwatering was my first guess as well.

The first mixture I was using had peat moss, but I changed it out for the Fox Farm Light Warrior yesterday. There is new growth at the tops, and the leaves that are yellowing don't appear to be getting any worse. Maybe they're turning around now that the roots aren't saturated.

I bought some test strips yesterday as well. I pH'd the water going into the plants at 6.4-6.6, and the runoff was 6.5.

I pulled them out of the original mix based on Pete's advice, though I agree that I don't think the soil was causing nute burn. However, the original soil must have been very acidic due to the peat moss because when using water with a pH of 7.4 the runoff was 6.3. So, I am glad I changed it anyway. The Fox Farm LW seems to be a much better soil.

Thanks for taking the time to come and have a look.

Personally I honestly don't think this is a nutrient burn issue, the tip burn is old, there is no way the tip burn can go that color of tan in 24 hours.......it's already been past the point of necrotic. This clone had to of been taken from a plant that had nutrient burn......

Did the clones have roots when you put them into the soil?

They look like they are over watered than anything else and given the fact they were in rockwool when you got them, they looked like they had been burned in the past, but ime that plant is not suffering from nutrient burn.
It's more suffering from over watering and the plant is starting to lock out nitrogen, most likely from it being too wet and given the fact it was a clone.

How much roots did this clone have when you put it into the soil?
Given the fact it's a clone and clones most of the time yellow when they root that plays a factor too.

Your mixture you are using, does it say it has peat moss in it?
You should be getting a pH meter, the method you are using to test the pH is not as accurate. You can buy a pH pen and some calbrating solution, or if you are on a budget, you can buy some pool pH test strips. Make sure it has a pH range it reads on the back, the colors will tell you a lot more than the liquid test you are using and stay away from those probes......

I need to know the questions I asked before I could tell you how to fix it first..

 

[MPL]

By the way, just how bad do the plants look? Verge of dying? A little sick? A lot sick?

If they are recovering, will the dead/dying leaves also recover or will only the new growth be healthy? Should I remove the dead/dying leaves and stems? There aren't that many, but I don't want to stress the plants unnecessarily.

There appears to be quite a bit of new growth at the top of the plant and along most of the nodes. At first I thought the plants were flowering because of the growth in the nodes. The new growth looks very healthy, and will hopefully stay that way.

 

[Guest]

Unless you have supernatural powers, the leaves that are dead will stay dead. I'd let the plant use up however much nute the yellowing leaves has left but they are goners also. On at least one of your plants, I'd consider burying some of that stem. It will grow roots. Your plant may stall, not grow as much, while it grows roots but it will better for it down the line. One other thing I'd do is make a foliar feed of earthworm casings (EWC) and kelp. Sort of like a vitamin for your plant. Now, I'll step away and let the soon to be Pulitzer Prize winning author do her magic. I'm hoping she accepts my application for being her groupie. It sounds so much better than troll, don't ya think?

 

[MPL]

Thanks for the info, I will do that. I'll cut off the nodes at the bottom of the stems and bury them a bit. I also thought that it would help with developing strong roots if I did so, but wasn't really sure about it.

Should I cut off the nodes and whatnot on the bottom part of the stem where I am going to bury it? Or, can I just leave them there?

I'll cut off the dead and dying leaves in another day or so then.

Ok, so basically, once a leaf or part of the plant starts yellowing, that part of the plant is pretty much a goner no matter what? So all the new growth at the tops and in the nodes that looks healthy is what I should be focused on?

So who is the prize winning author?

Thanks for the reply and advice!

Unless you have supernatural powers, the leaves that are dead will stay dead. I'd let the plant use up however much nute the yellowing leaves has left but they are goners also. On at least one of your plants, I'd consider burying some of that stem. It will grow roots. Your plant may stall, not grow as much, while it grows roots but it will better for it down the line. One other thing I'd do is make a foliar feed of earthworm casings (EWC) and kelp. Sort of like a vitamin for your plant. Now, I'll step away and let the soon to be Pulitzer Prize winning author do her magic. I'm hoping she accepts my application for being her groupie. It sounds so much better than troll, don't ya think?

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, just go ahead and let them recover and since you removed them from the peat, which petey was correct, the soil was causing the mixture to become acidic.

So let them recover, you may have to water them a little bit in a few days to help the soil get wet a bit if you have not already watered that soil.

the light warrior should only last around 2 weeks before they need feeding.

 

[MPL]

Alrighty, thanks for the advice everyone.

I'm not going to bury the stem right yet. The top of the plants are showing new growth and it's a very vibrant green. Also, the nodes at the bottom of the plants near the top of the soil are showing new growth as well.

I think at this point I am just going to let them be and let them do their own thing for now. I'll still trim the dead leaves and whatnot later though.

When trimming the dead stuff, should I trim the entire leaf, or just the affected "finger" of the leaf?

A couple of yellow spots that were starting to develop on one of the smaller "finger" leaves seem to be fading. Let's hope so!

Thanks again!

 

[MynameStitch]

I would trim just the dead part of the leaves, but I would do so after they recover.
There is not enough dead leaf material on the plant to start trimming right now.

When your soil/medium gets saturated nitrogen is the first element to show a problem and when a plant is droopy looking and has yellowing of the lower leaves, it's almost always either due to over watering/ not enough food, other factors can also play the role, but in this case it's clearly because it's a clone for one and 2 overwatering.

 

[HeadyPete]

Thanks for the follow ups Stitch!

Glad to hear you got some good new growth happening MPL. Your plants look like a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 but soon they will be a 9. I've seen much worse recover, don't fret.

 

[MPL]

Stitch, Pete, thanks for all the advice!

They are definitely showing a lot of new growth at the top. Also, the roots are really starting to grow a lot as well. I'm going to cut off the lower nodes and bury the stem this evening when I go to water them.

I'll have more pics up tonight, and let you pros do an evaluation. I'll try to get some of the roots as well, but I'm going to be trying to repot them deeper as quickly as possible so may not be able to get pics of that part.

One question, when I go to cut off the lower nodes, all I need to do is use a sharp, clean razor blade right? Just cut it cleanly as close to the main stem as I can and that's it right?

Thanks again!

 

[Guest]

Yeah, MPL, you got the idea.