(Not new grower) Best way to utilize 4ft vertical space?

[TheCatDaddy]

I’m used to growing notill in a 4x4 bed. Have minimal vertical space until the addition at my house is finished (I moved.) I have an HLG Scorpion R Spec LED which is only 3in deep.

I was debating on doing a SOG grow, which I’ve never done before. I was also thinking that I just might be able to grow using organic soil, short/extra wide pots and be diligent in LSTing the shoots horizontally.

Any suggestions would truly help as I’m a little stressed about the situation, but the grow must go on. I have a plant that COULD be used as a mother for SOG, but I’m not the best at cloning and havnt done SOG before. Thoughts fellas?

 

[HempKat]

Well SOG (Sea of Green) would be a good candidate in a spot with limited vertical space but if you only have one mother and you have a tough time with cloning SOG might not be right for you. But as far as doing it, once you have all the needed clones it's really no different then just normally growing a plant other then you have many plants close together and you don't spend hardly any time vegging them. Also with SOG you typically discourage any secondary growth and basically just shoot for a cola on a stick as they call it. The reason being that the plants are usually so close together that secondary growth won't do very well and will ultimately take away from the colas.

The next best option then is more like what you are saying about a few plants in short wide pots that you LST diligently. That's more or less what they call ScrOG (Screen of Green). That's where you take just a few plants (4 is pretty common) and you grow them in medium size pot but then you top them and train the secondary growth to populate a screen the size of your grow space (in your case 4x4) the screen isn't like a screen in a window but rather a mesh where the holes in the mesh are suitable for a bud site to poke thru. That screen essentially becomes your canopy and done right the buds don't grow too much higher then the screen.

Another option could be to grow say about 8 to 12 plants either from seed or clone in 2-3 gallon pots but don't give them any veg time or very little but rather just flip them to 12/12 once the establish themselves (clones) or grow their first true set of leaves after sprouting (seeds). In this method the plants will stretch as much as they can during the first 2-3 weeks of flower (stretch phase) and then just bud and not get much taller. It's really a lot like SOG except since they're not as many and not as close together you can let the secondary growth develop more. If the plants stretch too much you might have to do some topping and/or training to keep them from growing to close to your light when it's at it's maximum height.

 

[HempKat]

Which would be best for you is going to depend largely on your needs in terms of the harvest. I'll post some examples of ScrOG and SOG to give you something to visualize from.

ScrOG using soil

ScrOG using hydro

SOG using soil

 

[TheCatDaddy]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that. After some further reading and suggestions, I’m thinking Jm going to use 4 plants and SCROG. I’ve always topped/LST my plants but never used an actual net. You think the net will be helpful in my situation? Here’s a picture someone sent me, said it was similar to what i’m doing. I want to explain what I would do.

First off i’m unsure, but think I should have 4 tops per plant opposed to 2 AND I’d start LST sooner. I would then move the green wire towards the top and pull it down more. The shoots growing vertical will soon become tops, so I think I’d train half to go one way and half the other. I think the plant would end up looking like a square?

Flip on 12/12 and hope to god they don’t stretch like a madman. I’m using bodhi seeds and could still pull them down in flower if need be. I feel I could get a sizable yield per plant as if it was a regular grow. I have a nice LED ontop of it all.

Which would be best for you is going to depend largely on your needs in terms of the harvest. I'll post some examples of ScrOG and SOG to give you something to visualize from.


ScrOG using soil



ScrOG using hydro



SOG using soil

 

[TheCatDaddy]

Cats united bruh

 

[HempKat]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that. After some further reading and suggestions, I’m thinking Jm going to use 4 plants and SCROG. I’ve always topped/LST my plants but never used an actual net. You think the net will be helpful in my situation? Here’s a picture someone sent me, said it was similar to what i’m doing. I want to explain what I would do.

First off i’m unsure, but think I should have 4 tops per plant opposed to 2 AND I’d start LST sooner. I would then move the green wire towards the top and pull it down more. The shoots growing vertical will soon become tops, so I think I’d train half to go one way and half the other. I think the plant would end up looking like a square?

Flip on 12/12 and hope to god they don’t stretch like a madman. I’m using bodhi seeds and could still pull them down in flower if need be. I feel I could get a sizable yield per plant as if it was a regular grow. I have a nice LED ontop of it all.

You don't absolutely have to have the screen it's really more of an aide that give you something to train the secondary tops to in a way that results in a more or less even canopy. You could do more or less the same thing without the screen/net but it would probably be a bit more challenging to maintain a nice even canopy. Now to be completely transparent and honest, I myself have never done a true ScrOG. I've done a number of SOGs and that seemed pretty easy to me so I just stuck with it. I've also done some general LST but nothing that resulted in an even canopy. Anyway As I understand it, when doing a ScrOG you start it off in veg kind of like you describe but then you put the screen over it and flip to 12/12 and as it tries to stretch you continue to train the plant to fill the open areas of the screen which hopefully fills up by the time stretch ends and from that point on the buds just grow a little bit above the screen like in the pictures I shared above. The way you describe would make better use of the space then just letting them grow normally but the problem you would run into if you didn't keep training during the stretch phase is you would end up with some of your bud sites below the canopy and they wouldn't do as well as they might in a ScrOG.

 

[St. Phatty]

Obviously limit the vertical space of the root medium.

I would use 2 concrete mixing tubs, and maybe plant a small electric pump in the bottom one.

Then use 2x2 wood, which measure 1 1/2 x 1 1/2, to give some vertical distance between the reservoir and the bottom of the roots.

And maybe measure the pH of the run-off that you pump out of the bottom.

The tubs are 24 x 36, maybe 8 inches high.


If you have known strains that tolerate hotter soil, then you can use hotter soil.

I would use a mix of Cool (5000 color temp) and warm (3700 or something) LED bulbs.

A 400 or 600 HPS would be OK, but then you spend time keeping the tops of the plants a certain distance from the heat source.


I would also put LED's on the side, to illuminate buds halfway up.

I would also give it CO2 and loads of ventilation.

And some tiny oscillating fans.

 

[HempKat]

I would also put LED's on the side, to illuminate buds halfway up.

Lots of good tips in the post above but I really like the one I quoted for maxing the potential of a limited grow space. I tried this once with fluorescent lights on the side and HIDs up above and it did have a noticeable benefit to the yield of the lower growth. Since LEDs are more powerful in ways then fluorescents I can only imagine the benefits would be even greater. If you do this however I would discourage the idea of doing much if any removing of leaves. When the light source there is a certain amount of sense in removing leaves to help the light penetrate deeper into the canopy but if you use side lighting effectively that should eliminate the need to remove leaves.

 

[St. Phatty]

Lots of good tips in the post above but I really like the one I quoted for maxing the potential of a limited grow space. I tried this once with fluorescent lights on the side and HIDs up above and it did have a noticeable benefit to the yield of the lower growth. Since LEDs are more powerful in ways then fluorescents I can only imagine the benefits would be even greater. If you do this however I would discourage the idea of doing much if any removing of leaves. When the light source there is a certain amount of sense in removing leaves to help the light penetrate deeper into the canopy but if you use side lighting effectively that should eliminate the need to remove leaves.

Kind of a Time Management issue.

I notice on Indica's, sometimes you will have a HUGE fan leave completely blocking a tiny bud site.

Sometimes you can use string to pull the leaves out of the way.

If you remove the leaves, you are removing food.

 

[HempKat]

Kind of a Time Management issue.

I notice on Indica's, sometimes you will have a HUGE fan leave completely blocking a tiny bud site.

Sometimes you can use string to pull the leaves out of the way.

If you remove the leaves, you are removing food.

Right and I kind of got the impression that's why he was talking about doing a lot of LST. What I was trying to say above though is that if he follows your advice about side lighting then he might not have to do a whole bunch of LST nor should have to do much if any removal of leaves. I personally agree with you on leaf removal and don't advocate it but I know many will swear by it but that's always been debated on grows where the light is just up above, if you have side lighting to cover below the canopy then there is really no excuse for leaf removal in my opinion.

 

[St. Phatty]

DAMN !!!

Makes me wish I was managing a BIG apartment building in the Emerald Triangle or maybe the SF Bay Area.

So I could help people with their grows & maybe set up a light-sharing group since, who needs to have 6 lights cluttering up their closet when they're not using them.

Would like to see some state governor pass a "Soft law" (no ticket, just guidance), about apartment buildings -
* all closets and bedrooms must have serious ventilation, in and out.
* all closets and bedrooms must have serious moisture barriers, so someone can knock over a 5 gallon bucket and it only hurts the carpet.

Also people need to be super careful about extension cords and power strips.

I have fried dozens over the years, 1/2 of that while working on immersion heaters for the last 3 years.

 

[TheCatDaddy]

I don’t feel comfortable using hydro (sounds like one was suggesting that,) as when this is over with i’m going back to beds/notill. I’d like to continue using organic soil as I have a BUNCH of stuff for organic growing.

Im thinking it will be simpler than I think, I’ve just never had vertical restraint so I’m a little “nervous.” Thankfully I have a quality/thin LED that covers a lot of area.

Overall I think the main thing is… Can cannabis grow the same in short/extra wide pots? Wasn’t sure if the roots adapt to that or not. Then I’ll just LST diligently, if i’m feeling it maby I’ll buy something cheap for side lighting. Unsure as to what, my LED already cost like 1k so don’t want to throw too much money at it.

 

[f-e]

My lights are 90cm off the floor, and I won't need another 30cm to finish. I have not needed over 120cm in ages. That's with pot's raised 100mm for the drainage system. I use two nets. The bottom one just 100mm from the top of the pots. Maybe 175mm to the next one.

I have 1.5 meters to play with, but 1.2 would be ample without the carbon up top.

 

[TheCatDaddy]

So you are using less vertical space then myself! Would you mind posting some pictures, it would help me ponder how I’m going to do this.

My lights are 90cm off the floor, and I won't need another 30cm to finish. I have not needed over 120cm in ages. That's with pot's raised 100mm for the drainage system. I use two nets. The bottom one just 100mm from the top of the pots. Maybe 175mm to the next one.

I have 1.5 meters to play with, but 1.2 would be ample without the carbon up top.

 

[exploziv]

I never really used more than 1.5 m height for my grows in years, so for sure its doable.

 

[f-e]

So you are using less vertical space then myself! Would you mind posting some pictures, it would help me ponder how I’m going to do this.

If you have 120cm, you could put a 120cm tent on it's side. You just need to support the now horizontal poles, where they join.
That build is here https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...8-under-bed-grow-room?p=18070930#post18070930

 

[HempKat]

Overall I think the main thing is… Can cannabis grow the same in short/extra wide pots? Wasn’t sure if the roots adapt to that or not. Then I’ll just LST diligently, if i’m feeling it maby I’ll buy something cheap for side lighting. Unsure as to what, my LED already cost like 1k so don’t want to throw too much money at it.

Cannabis can grow in most any size pot, there are people that go straight to 12/12 as soon as a seedling sprouts or as soon as the clones develop roots. The roots stop growing for the most part once the stretch phase is over which is typically 2-3 weeks. Because of that people have been known to grow cannabis in containers that are really just large solo brand disposable drink cups (20 oz cups I think maybe 24 oz). Generally speaking when you grow cannabis to it's normal potential (full veg for 2 months before going to 12/12) you would have a hard time making it work with a short wide container because during that 2 months of veg the roots will keep growing and spreading out until they become root bound and then you pretty much have to transplant to a larger, deeper pot. By skipping the veg phase you can get away with using much smaller pots and the smaller the pot the more restricted the height of the plant will be. The general rul of thumb is that for ever foot or two of vertical growth the roots need to go about a foot deep into the soil. If you do decide to try the straight to 12/12 method it's best to work with clones so that you know the sex of the plant. Or if you do it from seeds then it's best to work with feminized seeds so that again you don't need to worry about the sex. You can do it with regular seed but then you need to keep a close eye on it until it shows sex and then pull the males out of the grow before they can pollinate the females, unless you want seeds. The problem working with normal seeds though is let's say you start 10 seedlings and you're really counting on all or at least most of those 10 to be female but what happens if you end up with mostly males? You grow is pretty much shot and you have to start over since males really are only good for producing pollen.