Noob Question.. please don't laugh...

[GreenGreenie]

This is my 2nd grow.
I tried my best to kill off the 1st one with really stupid mistakes, but somehow they managed to survive in spite of everything I did wrong.
So now I have a much better environment, all lighting is run off a single timer through relays, two stage cooling, reliable co2 delivery, and fresh air intake.
Now, the ladies are starting week 6 tomorrow, and budding up nicely.
On the 1st grow, I had a lot of shade leaves, especially on the bottom of the plants, that started dying and I cut off.
Now, the plants have more shaders than I have ever seen, and they are all healthy.I thought part of the reason to cut the shaders was to send more of the plants energy to producing the buds.
I started using a nutrient designed to help the terps develop, as my 1st crop was only 15% THC and .04 Terps.
I read about clustering them instead of keeping a separation, so now they are all grouped together.
My question, should I just wait until the shaders start dying, or should I start cutting anyway?
Hmm, the explanations dont show with the pics.
Either that or my browser is freaking out.



Clean intake air

Centralized controls

Good canopy

Healthy shade leaves to the bottom.

 

[DoubleTripleOG]

What strain are you growing? You had it tested in a lab? I ask because more than likely it's the strain your growing that's limiting your percentage in the buds. Not the closeness of the plants or amount of larf underneath.

 

[GreenGreenie]

What strain are you growing? You had it tested in a lab? I ask because more than likely it's the strain your growing that's limiting your percentage in the buds. Not the closeness of the plants or amount of larf underneath.

That could have been part of the issue, they were given by a friend.
But I seriously did everything wrong, like left them in a box in the garage for almost 2 weeks without light, then only had the greenhouse partially built when I put them in, and went out during the day cycles to do more.
The list goes on, improper nutrient levels, improper watering, several timers that wouldn't stay synced, no humidity control, no fresh air.
Didn't even have a microscope to check trichombs before harvest.
Had them tested at Analytical 360 Labs.
I got the new batch at Cloners in Seattle.
Went with 2 indica and one staiva strain, all hybirds and all known for high potency.
The sativa has a one week longer grow cycle, but I wanted that to help spread out harvest.
Highly recommend that pace. They know plants, and give a 15% discount to veterans.( just show Department of Veteran affairs card)
Must have valid medical card to purchase.
I called them several times with questions, but their knowledge base ends with cloning, strains, etc, and doesn't extend to flower and harvest.

Here's the lab sheet. I was off on the terps, not sure where I got the .04 number.

 

[blueberrydrumz]

Hey Green Greenie,
hope all is well..
nice setup with the relays.. thats the way to do it for sure..
hard to tell with the HID on the pics.. but not looking bad..
about your question,
for this round id leave the plants as they are and only pick up the dead leaves.. your space is not crammed and i guess light will be getting down below..
i wouldnt stress them too much now as they are already in full flower
how high are you lamps? 600w?
you can try and do a scrog next time and fill up your canopy.. make it worth while
peace

 

[GreenGreenie]

Hey Green Greenie,
hope all is well..
nice setup with the relays.. thats the way to do it for sure..
hard to tell with the HID on the pics.. but not looking bad..
about your question,
for this round id leave the plants as they are and only pick up the dead leaves.. your space is not crammed and i guess light will be getting down below..
i wouldnt stress them too much now as they are already in full flower
how high are you lamps? 600w?
you can try and do a scrog next time and fill up your canopy.. make it worth while
peace

They are all 1000W dimmable, I have the two HPS on 100% and the MH on 60%.

Have spent the last hour reading threads about the SCROG and am definitely going to do it for the next batch.
I think I may have too many fans moving too much air, but the only discoloration I have is from chem burns when the nozzle drips.
Have been using a 4' nozzle and watering each plant, going to build a table and do ebb and flow, but right now only using soil.
Still have a long way to go... so much to learn...
Was really nice to find this forum.

 

[waveguide]

tight setup for 2nd time grower..

never had the $ to field anything like that, you're above my league already. for what it's worth, here is my opinion -

different successful growers document various approaches to gardening.. pruning for yield like plucking fan leaves and lollypopping seems to work to great effect for some growers.. i think timing has some pertinence.. i take kind of a cruelty free approach, my plants seem to do better when i think rainbow pony thoughts for them, and grow pretty shit when i try cutting parts off them.. i kinda figure all the parts work together.. maybe it's my timing, or overall feng shui.

i don't know why different growers succeed doing different things, but that's what i see. anyway, definately accomodate the time to make your own observations into your expectation of developing abilities from internet reports. they look great!

there is an adage, "tuck don't pluck" i heard it another way too.

 

[Gondo412]

You should have lollipopped them in the 2nd week of flower if you do it now it will just stress them like mentioned above

 

[GreenGreenie]

tight setup for 2nd time grower..

never had the $ to field anything like that, you're above my league already. for what it's worth, here is my opinion -

different successful growers document various approaches to gardening.. pruning for yield like plucking fan leaves and lollypopping seems to work to great effect for some growers.. i think timing has some pertinence.. i take kind of a cruelty free approach, my plants seem to do better when i think rainbow pony thoughts for them, and grow pretty shit when i try cutting parts off them.. i kinda figure all the parts work together.. maybe it's my timing, or overall feng shui.

i don't know why different growers succeed doing different things, but that's what i see. anyway, definately accomodate the time to make your own observations into your expectation of developing abilities from internet reports. they look great!

there is an adage, "tuck don't pluck" i heard it another way too.

Thanks, have an acquaintance that is a guru, but unless I have a little research into anything I ask him, by the 2nd paragraph I'm lost in any response, and I don't want to sound like an idiot asking the same stuff over and over.
Was a lot of used parts except for inline fans and such.
Re-purposed commercial equipment.
You're right about documentation, started a grow diary last week, so it hasn't started to do any good yet.
I remember something about playing music for them, but in their location it's not possible, have to keep a very low profile.

I'll try the net on next grow, there's only a couple weeks left of this one.



Thanks for the input to everyone.
Really do appreciate taking the time out to post a response.

 

[MJPassion]

My question, should I just wait until the shaders start dying, or should I start cutting anyway?

I would say let the fans/shades/waters whatever ya wanna call em leaves be until they die naturally.

The plants ability to adjust to various light intensities is tremendous.

My thoughts are that by removing those leaves you are removing the producers of energy that the plants need to manufacture the foods for themselves and their beneficials, thereby removing potential yield.

 

[Granger2]

When lollypopping, if all you're removing is larf, I don't think it stresses the plants at all at any stage. -granger

 

[GreenGreenie]

When lollypopping, if all you're removing is larf, I don't think it stresses the plants at all at any stage. -granger

OK, so lollypopping is making the netting.
I'm guessing larf is what's on the bottom part of the plant?

What I did with this one is staked the horizontal branches that are getting too heavy to hold the buds, and tied them in a more upright position.
I turn the plants 1/4 turn every day, and have had three fans blowing the crap out of them, so only some of the indica plants are weak.
The staivas are freaking huge.

The lower branches all have buds forming. I think it was a combination of the strong air flow, super reflective walls and ceiling, and I only did 10 plants with 3 lights.
Based on the 1st grow, I'm guessing 1/3 - 1/2 per plant net dry.
Next batch goal is 2/3 - 1 per, but has to be min 20% or is throw away.

There's a very few branches on a couple plants at soil level that could be trimmed, but so far nothing has started falling or discoloring besides chem burn from drips.

 

[Pragma]

Remove those leaves so u have less potential vectors for PM/Mold infections imho.
If they aint gonna get light u remove the bottoms before u kick into flower.
If u are already deep into flower you might stress the plant so at that stage its prolly better to leave them if its a nanner prone strain especially.

 

[blueberrydrumz]

lollypopping as the name says.. picture a lollypopp.. just one big bud..
no side branches.. but thats a scrog technique...
you are too far into flowering and so just ride it out and get prepared for the next round
yeah nets to hold the plant is a must next time..
with a 4 x 8 (1.2 - 2.4m) space i find 36 plants ideal, 10 days veg, but you can double that and no veg and prob achieve even more.. strain dependent as well.. good luck

 

[GreenGreenie]

lollypopping as the name says.. picture a lollypopp.. just one big bud..
no side branches.. but thats a scrog technique...
you are too far into flowering and so just ride it out and get prepared for the next round
yeah nets to hold the plant is a must next time..
with a 4 x 8 (1.2 - 2.4m) space i find 36 plants ideal, 10 days veg, but you can double that and no veg and prob achieve even more.. strain dependent as well.. good luck

Wow, 4'x8' net with 36 plants?
What size pots, and how do you water each one?
My math is not good, I calculated that at 508 squares by 1015.

I'm using 5 gal buckets, about 18" diameter.
That's about 2 wide, if I go 4 1/2 ' that's 3 wide
Then 9' long gives me 6 pots out, about 18 plants total.
Thats 144 tops if every square gets one.

I haven't tried going with smaller buckets, been afraid I'd get lower quality if I shortened the cycle.
But then, if it's one gal per month, then I'm using too big anyway.

 

[Granger2]

Lollypopping is also the act of just pruning off everything below a certain point, which is what I was referring to. Pruning guide [basic knowledge that every grower should know:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=115377
-granger

 

[blueberrydrumz]

Wow, 4'x8' net with 36 plants?
What size pots, and how do you water each one?
My math is not good, I calculated that at 508 squares by 1015.

I'm using 5 gal buckets, about 18" diameter.
That's about 2 wide, if I go 4 1/2 ' that's 3 wide
Then 9' long gives me 6 pots out, about 18 plants total.
Thats 144 tops if every square gets one.

I haven't tried going with smaller buckets, been afraid I'd get lower quality if I shortened the cycle.
But then, if it's one gal per month, then I'm using too big anyway.

with that plant count and setup id do flood & drain.. either in coco matts or 2 gallon pots, you could as i say do double the plants and 1 gallon pots but thats if you can get so many cuttings, or do them yourself.. a lot of work... so id go for 36 plants same light setup as you have now.. is perfect for that size.. 2 x HID + 1 MH