NL seedlings are droopy please help.

[cabanetforester]

Hello I. C. community,

I am a med user who has recieved 10 NL Nirvana pure Indica seeds from another med user. This is my first grow. I have been lurking and reading for about a month, trying to learn as much as possible. I germinated the seeds in a cup of PH 6.5 room temp distilled water and planted them in peat pellets after they cracked and showed a root.

I left them in peat pellets until they broke the surface (2-3 days) then put the peat pellets into 16 oz plastic cups with 6 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom and filled with Fox Farms light warrior pre wetted and slightly tamped. Top of peat pelt is at the top of the cup.

I have been keeping the temps in the mid 70's (F) during the day and upper 60's at night. Humidity was low the first week (20% range) but growth seemed fine. I have been using a Hydrofarm seedling mat during lights out to keep the temps up in hopes of tighter internodal spacing and to help the roots get established. My day temps (74) are still about 5 degrees higher than night temps (69).

I started using an ultrasonic humidifier to get the humidity up into the 40-80% range 24 hours a day. I have been watering with straight distilled filtered drinking water every 2-3 days, tyring to avoid over watering. PH is about 6.5-7



The light is a Sun System New Wave T5 H.O. It's the 4 bulb 24" one that uses about 100 watts and makes about 8000 lumens. I have been keeping the light about 2-3" above the top of the seedlings. I have a 120mm (about 50 cfm) PC fan hanging from one end of the light blowing across the tops of the seedlings. They shake slightly in the breeze. Canopy temp is about 74 degrees.

The plants are 13 days old today. Some of them are droopy yet are still green and growing. They started to get droopy during the second week. They are on the third set of leaves( some are 1/2" long) 4th set counting the coteleydons?.Today I fed them nutes for the first time with 1/8th strength (3.5 ml/gallon) PBP grow and 5 drops of coco cat. Each 16 oz cup recieved 2 oz of the mix. The nutrient enriched water with the added coco cat has a PH of 6.0-6.5. Not quite enough water to drain out the holes in the bottom of the cup because I dont want to over water and some are already drooping. So I don't know what to do.



Sorry for the long post. I thought I had my bases covered, but I must have done something wrong because the half the seedlings are droopy. I will try and summerize the setup.

The worst part is my special plant (a trifoilate) is drooping the most despite being my second most vigorous seedling. I had high hopes for this one as a possible mother so I really want to get her* (I hope) healthy.

Plant type :
NL pure Indica from Nirvana seeds from another med user. Package appeared sealed.

Light cycle:
18/6

Atmospheric conditions:
74 degrees F during lights on. 69 degrees F during lights off. Adjustable output Ultrasonic humidifier, makes Humidity 40-80% ( not sure whats best)

Medium:
Seedling in peat pelt. Peat pelt is in Fox Farms Light Warrior.

Containers:
16 oz plastic cups with 6, 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom

Light:
Sun System New Wave T5 H.O. 24" four tube fixture model.6500k Ecolux tubes. 2-3" above top of seedlings.

Heat mat:
Hydrofarm, used during dark periods.

Water:
Filtered, distilled drinking water PH of 6.5-7 heated to room temp (low-mid 70's) I have been watering each seedling with 2-3 oz every 2-3 days.

Nutes:
PBP Grow at 1/8 strength (3.5ml/gallon) with 5 drops/gallon of coco cat PH 6-6.5 at 74 degrees. I just used this for the first time at day 13 from sprouting.

Fans:
One 120mm PC fan (50 cfm) hanging from light, blowing lenghtways across the 2 rows of 5 seedlings. One 120mm PC fan (120 CFM) exausting from top of cabinet

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I know there are many posts like this and I have searched and searched, but I'm still not sure what to do.

It would seem like over watering might be causing this, but I have been going pretty light on the water. The top of the peat pelt/ light warrior is almost a light brown before waterings. I also lightly till the top 1/4" of planting mix before each watering and it seems mostly dry.

Could too little water make them droopy?
Could to high of RH make them droopy?
Do the leaves of this strain tend to be droopy?

The cabinet temp during lights off is around 68-69 dergees F, but the bottom of the cups are about 80-85 F where they sit on the heating mat, could this be the cause?

I read that these 16 oz cups should be able to support a seedling untill it reaches about 5-6" tall, but I can see root tips just starting to poke out of the holes in the bottom of the cup. Could it be time to transplant?

I would like to thank all those who have provided so much time and info to the site/community. Much appreciated.

 

[ganja guido]

im having the same problem with only 1 of my 2 babies

 

[cabanetforester]

I just read your post. Those guys gave you some good advice. I'm probably in the same boat but I'm just not sure.

That link to the watering article was helpful I might have under watered since my light is so close and I'm using light warrior. I just hate to add more water if thats not the case.

My two fastest growers are the lightest shade of green though so maybe they need more water? <- hates being a noob..

Looks like you caught it early maybe you can get it turned around. Good luck with it ganja.

 

[Aroma]

cabinet forester: Looks like a great set up and that you are really on top of things for a first grow, the seedling look fine to me. I've grown nirvana NL and am currently growing female seeds NL and the leaves do go up and down at different times.

Maybe check the wieght of your pots after watering and then let one go a little extra dry, feel the weight . You gradually learn whats best for individual plants that way. I'd let them get a little more hardy before transplanting and I'd check the height of your light, 2 to 3 " is fine for cool flouros, but the smaller tubed compact throw out extra light and heat and should be higher at least to start with IMHO.

I'm a med user too and have been growing my own for years , although im stuck at a beginner level , I've learnt to overcome most problems to get some sort of harvest thanks to sites like this one. good luck ...happy growing. btw nirvanas northern lights gives very dense sticky nugs and a great body high. Aroma

 

[cabanetforester]

Thanks for the kind words Aroma. I will try raising the light and weighing the plants. Whats a good height for the light 4-8" ?

I was adjusting the light height according to the temps in the leaf area. I was trying to maintain about 74 F and the lights ended up kind of close because as I turned up the humidifier it would raise the humidity but also lower the temps.

By the time I got the RH up to about 60% the light was 2-3" away so maybe i need to raise my room temp? Right now it's around 68-72 F

Thanks again for sharing your experience with the NNL, it helps put my mind at ease a little about the leaves fluctuating.

...I messed up and lost my email password for my original screen name 'cabinet forester' Maybe OP could delete it, but I'm not going to ask as hes got enough to deal with I'm sure.

 

[Aroma]

my unit puts out quite a bit of heat so i keep it about 5 or 6 inches from the tops which works fine for seedlings and clones and doesnt do too bad for vegging either. they say if its too hot for your hand , its too hot for your plants , so your hand should feel comfortable under the light. My female NLs are over a month old now and need potting up , getting a few premature yellow leaves. as usual im struggling to get the feeding and watering right and my ph pen has gone loopy . but its all worth the effort .

 

[MynameStitch]

they dont need to be watered every 2 to 3 days wait till the soil gets light and also do not water them heavily just water them kinda lightly because the root system is not that big and will not absorb much water i would water every 5 days

are there holes at the bottom of those cups

how much water are you giving them when you water?

 

[cabanetforester]

The cups do have 6 holes in the bottom 3/16" holes. I had been giving them 2 oz every other day starting at day 13. Before that I was watering every 3-4 days.

I had my humidifier running in there and the fog from the humidifier was being drawn across the plants by a 50 CFM PC fan. RH was from 40-70%.

I have since redirected the fog so it is no longer being drawn across them. The RH in the cabinet is now about 40% with the lowest setting on the humidifier.

I also raised my lights to about 5" above the plants. They used to be 2-3". Lowering the RH and raising the lights seems to have helped. Thanks Aroma.

I also started weighing the plants 3 days ago. When they would get down to 7 oz I would water. The top 1/4" of mix would seem dry and crumble and be a light brown in color.

When I water them I get less than a 1/4 oz or no runoff? at all coming out the drain holes.

The nutes are 1/8 strength PBP Grow starting at day 13, 4 days ago. I'm also using 5 drops/gallon of coco cat.

They are showing a slight phosphorus deficiency I think. No signs of nute burn yet that I can tell after 4 days on the 1/8 strength mix.

I was on my way out the door when I read your questions Stitch. I will post some better pics of the seedlings in a couple hours.

Thanks for the help Stitch, looking forward to your diagnosis after I post the pics. CF

-Here are the new pics. These are now 16 days from planting into the pete pellets (13-14 days above ground).

The blue x is the Trifoilate. It's growing but always seems to be drooping to some extent although it varies.




A group shot. I was hoping the phophorous deficiency would show up. Anyway the new growth on some seedlings is a light reddish brown at the base of the newest leaves. Either my camera dosen't do macro very well or I don't know how to do it. It's hard to see as it's not very pronounced and seems to have disapered from some plants.




This shot shows a development at the base of the stem. The purple color/skin has begun to split away like it's shedding or something. Probably not good whatever it is? Looks like they are all starting to do it




It's been 4 days now since I watered with 1/8th strength PBP and 5 drops/gal of Coco Cat and I can't see any signs of nute burn.

Does nute burn take longer to show?

How much longer should I wait before I increase the nutes to 1/4 strength?

I can also see small root tips in the holes in the bottom of the cups and was wondering how much longer I should wait until I transplant to bigger pots. I'm not really in a big hurry but the growth seems a bit slow compared to others I have seen. Then again I want to train/treat these as potential bonsai mothers so maybe I should let them be slightly rootbound?

I want to take cuttings from these when they are mature enough. Flower the cuttings and keep the original seedlings in small pots with the goal being to make a bonsai mother of the best female.

This is probably backwards, but I want to find the best/easiest cloner/s as well as the best producers and or phenotypes? CF.

 

[minds_I]

Hello,

I don't have all the answers, but this is just my thoughts.

"how long to xplant?", I would wait a week or 10 days if there is good growth. If you repot too soon, it will slow growth as the roots will first seek out moisture and nutes before concentrating more on above ground growth. IMHO.

"How long to increase nutes?" Keep it light the first few times and remember your soil has nutes as well. I wish I could tell you more except I really do not have enough experience other then what I have read on this and OG.

"Cuttings?"-wait till you are ready to go into flower-you will have more shoots to choose from and you won't stunt the donors growth at such an early stage.


Not to sound as if I have it all figured out-after a year and 5 harvests (not great yielders yet-but someday) I would like to say don't freet over the small shit-it may be nothing more then a abberration. Relax, don't jump to conclusions (I have and still do) and be patient. Any cure you give will take some time to manifest. Oh course, if you phvqve vp hard-it will be a quick and painless death.

Keep asking the questions and use the search function (I know, I hated that piece of advice when I first read it) and read the past posts on the subject. Truely a gold mine on info. And its getting better with the recovery of some of the OG FAQ's.

Good luck and smoke a bowl and just watch them grow-talk to them, they like that shit.

I also play music for them-classic rock. They seem to respond.

minds_I

 

[Aroma]

there looking quite stocky and healthy inspite of the problems cabanetforester.

http://www.mandalaseeds.com/html/the_art_of_fertlizing.html

please read this article , i think the info here is so good, it's just changed my life

great advice there minds

 

[cabanetforester]

Thanks for all the help. Things seem fine, I'm done worrying for now anyway.

Minds I- I will wait to transplant as you said and stop being a worry wort. Good advice, well put.

Aroma- Nice to hear reassurance from a NNL grower.
I let the seedlings get a bit dry and they really started to wilt. So they have not been getting to much water. Thx again. That site has some good info. I need to purchase those books.

Fox Farms Light Warrior This is the mix I'm using.

This mix is actually 'soiless' I believe and it dosen't really have much nutes. It dries out fast. 5 days without water would be very hard on the seedlings in these small containers I would think.

I have made another gallon of nutrient solution. It's a little stronger this time.

PBP Grow @ 5ml/gal
Coco Cat @ 5 Drops/gal
A few drops of PH up.

Readings from the new solution are.
PH=~5.9
E.C.=~.57
P.P.M.=~400

You guys might already know about this, but it's a good little site for Bonsai Mothers and cloning. Thought I'd share anyway. Bonsai mums

After seeing the growth @ 4 weeks on your FMS/NL I'm wanting to try those. Maybe It's the MH your using, but those things are really growing fast.

Thanks again guys/gals. All is well so I'll let this thread be on it's way. CF