Newbie need help, first plant is sick !

[archer66]

I just have to mention that i have posted in gardenscure but nobody gave me an actual solution to my problem, and i just feel hopless and dont know how to help my girl! The pics will speak and im sorry if this is not the corect forum for these problems.
First it started as a heat stress but now its not and thats for sure. I already got 2 suppositions about the problem.
The pics were taken like 3-4 days ago and it doesnt seem better now. The plant is in soil under 70W HPS in a PC and bellow the bulb there is a glass wich stoped the heat and i can touch and hold my hand for long on that glass. Feeding it 3-6-6 with some micro in it. I will be glad to give more information.

 

[sallyforthDeleted member 75382]

What size pot/container is she in ? Also whats the ph ?

Could be over feeding or under feeding.

Best see what other's say.

 

[archer66]

The container is about 1.5 - 2L , the soil pH i cant mesure couse i dont have soil ph meter and i dont have a credit card to order u must understand that. i mesured the runoff and it stated something less than 6.5. the plant is in 30+ days of flower and i have always feed it to the given proportions of the fertilizers bottle and it havent given any signs of overfertilizing and i was even thinking it could take more. I use this fertilizer from the few first days of the 12/12. i have read that u can determine the pH of soil by the runoff couse it will always be close to the soil pH nomater the solution u use. At gardenscure one guy told me that could have locked P due to low pH , but another stated that it may be underferted and said that i should spray it with some MaxiCrop stuff wich i cant find here, so i was wondering can i try with my fertilizer to spray it and will this harm in this phase or will it harm me by smoking it if it even be good for smoking? I also found some Aminoacid based stuff from local manufacturers wich i will try to find and buy and use?

 

[Sandnut]

Instable PH?

Lights too close?

Nuteburn?


you need to check the ph for sure, you should also check the ph of the water you use for your plants and the PH of the nutrient solution your giving your plants, its har to determine with so little facts just by looking at these pics sorry hope this helps..

 

[archer66]

So my tap water ph is ~7.5 . I have been adding Apple vinegar to every water (feed) from the beggining of the flower and i did measure it back then but with ph strips, and i think i have been adding this with ph below 6.5. The bulb is like 10cm or less from the plant. and there is a glass in between. Before i installed the glass there was a heat stress for sure couse i was testing it with my hand just above the plant and it was hot, but after the glass i try with my hand and i feel i can hold it there for realy long. Nuteburn cant be couse i was adding the same amount of fertilezer from like a month and i was feeling she could take more. Could there be too much light? I know that there is no such thing. And i have seen the stuff Tpyn made on this website and he put 100W HPS in PC and it had heat stress but its like normal.
I went today to agriculture shop and got californian worm liquid extract and i was wondering would it hurt anymore if i spray with solution with this??? It doesnt have chemical analis on the bottle but it says its good for P and K loving plants.
Would it help if i have locked P with pH below 6.5?

 

[archer66]

Should i cut it and dry it and see what it happens if smoked?
Should i continue watering with regular tap water pH~7.5 and foilar feed with worm poo extrakt?
Or should i rise the lamp a bit i can get 1-2cm?
The pic is 2weeks + old and just shows how far is the bulb (glass in between atached to cdrom nest).

 

[Tr33]

That's some serious pH and nute burn going on. Do you have a EC/PPM meter?
Your nute solution should only be at 500ppm at the most, water pH @ 6.4
leaching will not help at this point in time.
Just use fresh water only, no more nutes for now! Wait till growth clear up and is stable again.
Raise your light about 6 inches.
DO NOT CHOP!!!
Way to early, let them finish out, they will survive.

pH @ 6.4

 

[archer66]

Isnt 6.4 low pH for soil?

Isnt 6.4 low pH for soil?

the runoff i have from it is less than 6.5, and i have read that runoff is close to soil pH, and the watering i gave it then was regular tap(~7.5).
i dont have a ppm/ec meter, and i measure my pH with aquarium pH test kit (reactive).
Will the worm poo extract foilar feed hurt it?

 

[ravvysan]

archer, i'm still pretty new myself but i agree with tr33 - your poor babies are cookin like bacon - no more nutes for now, no foliar spray, no nuthin!!!! adding more will only make matters worse. the problem is not that you don't have enough nutes in the soil, you now have too much....but cause the pH is likely far off, the plant is not able to take them up, know as "lockout". tr33 may be right that leaching wont help at this point, but i think it certainly couldn't hurt either. if it were me, i'd flush flush flush!!! you said that your tap water measures at 7.5 - but you have to understand that adding ferts/etc WILL affect the pH, sometimes a LOT. For example, my water pH is around 8.5+, but my nutes are extremely acidic....after mixing my nutes in, my pH goes all the way down to around 4!!! You should know that the pH scale is a logarithmic one, so small changes in number are actually big changes in acidity/alkalinity. So a pH 6.5 is actually 10 times more acidic than a 7.5 - and a pH of 4-something is like 10,000 times more acidic than an 8-something. now you see how an out of whack pH could really affect a plant. measure your pH AFTER adding your nutes and see what you get. (at least this is my official, slightly educated, and mostly inexperienced advice for what its worth. )
and for best results, buy yourself a prepaid visa card for a coupla bucks, put a $100 on it, and buy a decent pH meter! I think i got mine for about $85 online and i love it. really helped me begin to sort out my own issues. i think your plant has probably several issues, but pH is the most important right now IMHO - can't fix the others without first fixing pH. good luck!

 

[archer66]

Thanks for the advise , realy glad to see reply, it makes feel like im not alone . I will continue to just water it with my tap water. Will try to move the bulb a bit up, my only chance is to change the hole that are at the socket. A metal plank in the shape of Г holds the socket.

 

[intotheunknown]

another bit of information that has been ignored, and is very important. what is your soil's buildup? whats in your soil?
what exactly are you feeding them?

 

[ravvysan]

Thanks for the advise , realy glad to see reply, it makes feel like im not alone . I will continue to just water it with my tap water. Will try to move the bulb a bit up, my only chance is to change the hole that are at the socket. A metal plank in the shape of Г holds the socket.

i dont think i would worry about moving the light at this point, if you can leave your hand on the glass you put in, the heat is probably not an issue. then again i've never tried to grow anything in a computer box!

and like intotheunknown said, the more you can tell us the better we can help.
soil? additives? nutes? amount/schedule/etc?

 

[archer66]

Ok bulb is raised a bit, i saw your posts a bit late but i can bring it down if nesecery. I will post a pic with the fertilizer. It is a liquid fertilizer for Orchids. It was the best suited NPK ratio for flowering i could find and i will try to translate what its on the back.
Concetrate 3-6-6 with micros. Total N 3% (1.8nitrate N;1.2Amonium N) 6%P2O5 soliuble phosphate 6%K2O ; 0.01%B ; 0.002%Cu ; 0.02%Fe ; 0.02%Mn ; 0.001%Mo and 0.002%Zu
The soil is potting soil with perlite (dont know the amount) and i added like 6-9 balls of hydroton to the soil when last transplant (dont know if i had to wash it)!
This stuff i have been adding from the begining of flower at the recomended dosage on this scadual : water , rest , feed, rest , feed, rest , water and so on. Ans i have been adding Apple vinegar to every water or feed but when i got the pH metter i made the feed solution and cheked it was below 6.5, and this from more than 1month .
Pictures are : the fertilizer, new position of bulb, lower branch that has no problems on it and a pic of the plant taken tonight.
Just to mention that the plant was in my other PC with 46W cfl and problems started when i put it in the new pc. transplanted it before moving it.

 

[ravvysan]

archer, how are things looking? any changes? from the looks of that last pic, i'd say you probably lost a few leaves by now. i did a real quick google search for green vital fertilizer and got nothing, so not sure what to tell you about that. take a look at the bottle and see if it tells you what the sources are for its ingredients. i personally am using organic ferts, with sources like bone meal, blood meal, guano's, etc. inorganic based fertilizers tend to build up salts in your soil from what i've learned, and are much easier to overuse. ie, easier to get nutrient lockout. also, i'm probably just showing my own ignorance here, but what's with the vinegar? you are trying to control pH with it, or is there something im missing? hope things are looking up!

 

[FreezerBoy]

Avoid kitchen products for pH control. Vinegar will last just long enough to get to the store and back with legitimate pH Down. Infinitely superior to vinegar, pH Down is also astronomically cheaper. Vinegar is just throwing money down the drain.

pH determines what the plant will and wont eat. Bad pH essentially wires the plants mouth shut. If the food can't get into the plant, what's in the food doesn't matter.

 

[archer66]

ravvysan thaniks for the advises. Green Vital is german brand , plant is looking worst even i think, pics are below from a few days, but i think i notised some new white hairs, altough im flushing from last friday and will continue to this friday and then will be chop chop. I finaly got some organic stated ferts and i have started new seeds with journal this time so i can get help and avoid this happening again

FreezerBoy i will stop use apple vinegar from now on , or will do it once a week to get pH of water to 6.8 . I was just afraid to do not get high soil pH, but my biggest mistake was i used it every water and feed and i didnt got a pH test kit earlyer.
I may sound unbelivible but pH UP & Down i have found to be sold only for aquariums(and pools) and 1-2 online local shops for hydro (marijuana) stuff from where i dont whant to order! Our country is going a bit to the Police State and thats why i afraid to order such things!

Tommorow i will get a bottle of my regular tap water to my work couse there we have a Schott pH metter wich is calibrated and cleaned every day and is verry acurate.

here are the pics taken on 20.06.10 - Leaves are yellowing curling to all posible sides , i saw 1 wich was half dry half green, i just hope i can still smoke some of it !

 

[archer66]

It is all over !!!

It is all over !!!

Last night i was going to flush again. I opened the case and said to myself "i cant look it like that anymore" . My heart was torn apart by looking it last 2 weeks, and i felt it was dieing. I choped it and put it with heads down abnd im crossing fingers now for it to be just as good as the shit me and my girl buy.
Just see the pics !

Can someone tell me about pic3, does the marked stuff mean i flowerd it too much, or this is coused by the problems i had?

 

[ibjamming]

It looks to me like heat issues...did you have exhaust?

 

[archer66]

yep

yep

yep i have exhaust and instaled a glass between plant and light, and i could have held my hand there hole day
Room temperature in the last hottest days was 27-28, pc temp 30.5-31, and i think its good for middle tower pc with 70w hps and no cooltube. that heatshield was installed like 2 weeks ago.
The only trouble was I. I did that to her .