Newbie Grow Box - Input Needed

[DeezyH]

I've been lurking on these forums for awhile now trying to learn as much as
possible. I believe I am just about ready to start growing for real this time.
I had to kill my last little grow less than three days after germination


After reading countless threads both here and over at RIU, I think I've taken the best ideas and incorporated them into what will work best for me.

Below is my grow box design that I hope will achieve my goals of yielding the best quality buds the genetics can allow.


I haven't built it yet and that is why I am posting here asking for your opinions. Please look it over and point out anything I may have missed and make your own recommendations.


​

I plan on doing a three 5 gallon bucket DWC SCROG with a separate control bucket and reservoir. The control bucket handles recirculation and nutrient distribution.

This is all going to go inside this:

It's the closet maid from Home Depot and retails for around $100.

So there it is in all its glory. Please don't hesitate to ask wtf I'm thinking or give your opinions on why its good or bad.

*please not it is not to scale - my paint fu is lacking*

 

[Work2much]

I've got similar grow dimensions. One suggestion, go with two plants and widen your scrog screen, three is a bit much in 48" of width unless you dont veg very long.

Also in your current one bucket controller/rez combo your going to have to either run one strain only or two strains that take identicle nute strengths. I personally like variety so I would do it a little different.

 

[DeezyH]

Hey Work2much, thanks for the input. I definetly agree that three is pushing it for scrog, I only drew in three because thats the absolute max I can do for legal reasons.

The strain will be the same, for this first run it will be Dutch Passions Orange Bud Fem.

 

[Work2much]

Btw I'm jealous you can be low stealth, I'll be there soon.

One thing I noted from the pic, you might want to flip the carbon filter/fan the other way so the fan is pulling through the scrubber as its supposed to be more efficient.

Also a 600 is bigtime for that space, make sure you oversize your fan to compensate you can always tune it down later with a dimmer switch.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I have the same cab and run 550w in just half of it. A 600 is a piece of cake if you do things properly.

Flip the filter to inside and fan out.

Co2 and UVB are plus', but they are normally the last thing a new grower should be thinking about. I know, I know....but trust me, you should put those things on hold until you get dialed in. Once you have a good handle on your cab, and things are easy...then consider improving. You are going to find plenty of things to keep you busy, considering you are jumping into a hydro situation. If it were me, I would grow the first few out in dirt/soiless/coco pots and hand water. Then once you have got that down, move to more complicated methods.
Or....go for the full monty right off the bat...but try not to get too discouraged when things don't go as planned.

Best of luck!

 

[DeezyH]

Work2Much: I'll be sure to move that scrubber inside per your advice. It makes sense to filter the air inside the cab vs outside-lol

Hoosier: I was debating whether or not to do the CO2 for the first run, I'm not clear how I'm going to keep the exhaust fan from venting it prematurely. I was thinking of putting a separate timer on the exhaust fan so it only runs a few minutes an hour. Do you think that would work?
The UVB light will probably be a small reptile style and not the T5 pictured in my drawing.
I'm pretty set on going balls to the wall with the DWC, I played around with it for a bit and really like the potential it offers.

A few note on the cab:
The ambient air temp outside the cab is ~65°F year round with RH never above 25%
The Cooltube will draw air directly in and exhaust it without circulating inside the cab, that is why it is not hooked up to the carbon filter and has its on fan.
Any clones/mother plants will be outside and independent of the cab grow.

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I was debating whether or not to do the CO2 for the first run, I'm not clear how I'm going to keep the exhaust fan from venting it prematurely.

Do yourself a really big favor. Skip the CO2 and UVB for the first run or two. Get your feet wet before you start throwing in more variables to think about. Once you know how the plants grow and can keep them alive through till harvest (healthy), then start playing with that stuff.

Have you thought about a nute profile? If you're looking for Super Simple with awesome results, look at the Lucas Formula and FloraNova Nutes from General Hydroponics.
They're decently priced, work flawlessly and will allow you to focus on your plants instead of the nutes.


Oh, though you won't have much heat IN the cab with a cool-tube, don't forget it's going to heat the room the cab is in. Quite a bit.

If the temps in your cab run 75F without insulating your res, you'll also run into issues with DWC. All I can do is steer you toward E&F or Drip through hydroton or lavarock now. If you have any kind of heat issues you're going to need to pump a LOT of air through your reservoir. That means noise from pumps and bubbles. E&F and Drip don't suffer from that and they also tolerate heat past 80F without issues (Not great for the plants but definitely much better than a DWC situation.)

Someday I'll come up with an analogy that's puts the difference in work and resources between the two into perspective for just about anyone. Not yet though

 

[DeezyH]

Hydro, thanks for the input!

I hope to keep the water temps low using a recirculating pump inside the control bucket. The control bucket and reservoir are both located outside the cab where temps will never go above 65°F.

For nutes im using FloraNova and will look into the Lucas Formula, I definetly like simplicity.

 

[Work2much]

Hydro, thanks for the input!

I hope to keep the water temps low using a recirculating pump inside the control bucket. The control bucket and reservoir are both located outside the cab where temps will never go above 65°F.

For nutes im using FloraNova and will look into the Lucas Formula, I definetly like simplicity.

Submersible pumps on 24/7 can actually raise temps although in the larger rez sizes your talking about the temp might not go up enough to worry about as the heat will be dispersed through such a large volume of water.

Look into inline water pumps that are placed outside of your rez as these will avoid the increase in temps.

Floranova is a good one. I like simple as well, and have found the combo of CNS17/Liquid Karma to be top notch. Cheap too.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Hydro, thanks for the input!

I hope to keep the water temps low using a recirculating pump inside the control bucket.

That pump will produce heat. As long as you're keeping the res separate from the grow, why not go drip or E&F? All you're adding is a $15 pump, some hose and an E&F set (About 10$ from discount hydro).

You gain so much though it isn't funny.

 

[DeezyH]

UPDATE!

So I decided to switch things up a bit and go with a soil grow this time around. I am still interested in doing a DWC setup but that will be after I get a few harvests under my belt.

In the meantime I went ahead and purchased my cab and started modifying it for my grow. The cab I bought is the Closetmaid from Home Depot, its cheap and fairly easy to put together. I did have some problems with it and ended up having to buy two. I plan on doing a write up of my experience soon.

Here's what I have built so far:


That vortex is damn loud so I built a box filled with insulation for the fan and a second box filled with packaging peanuts for it to vent through. This has cut down the noise level to a reasonable level.
For cab ventilation I have the four passive intake holes, one has a case fan forcing air in. The temps are around 75-80F with the doors closed.
Not ideal and I am open to any suggestions on how to improve this.

I am open to any and all recommendations on how to improve this grow cab.

 

[Work2much]

Temps and intake seem fine. I would reccomend an additional intake or two just to be safe, but if you've got a PC fan pulling fresh air into the chamber along with three other passive holes you should be good. What are your ambient temps, that is key, anymore then 10 degrees above it I'd add another passive intake and check temps.

 

[DeezyH]

Ambient temps are pretty stable at 65F. I noticed that as soon as I added the pc fan the inside cab temps dropped another 5 degrees so that both plants are in the mid 70's. My real concern is that right now only the cooltube is hooked up to the vortex. I think once I solve the cab exhausting situation with the vortex I should be gtg.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

You don't need any more intake holes. You only have one 6" out, so four 6" in is more than plenty.

Thing is, the way your current system is set up, you are not doing much at all in the grow space but moving air around inside. Any air that is sucked out of there is only done by mistake...what I mean is the glass in the tube, or the ducting isn't sealed if any air is leaving.

If you add another small fan, you can keep the same configuration, but take the scrubber out of it. This would keep the light cool without having to scrub the air, providing you have no leaks.
Then use the system you have now with the scrubber to suck the air directly from the top of your cab. This will then make your passive intakes come into play and you can see what your cab will really do. I can almost guarantee you that anything more than 75degF and you are going to start cooking in there as is.

Fans on the intake hole are not needed, and help little at all. Use the fan to keep the air inside moving. The exhaust fan and the intake holes will take care of themselves.

I assume that stealth is not an issue. You will probably have lots of light leaving this box as is.
Are you covering the holes with anything? If so, realize that anything too thick will really restrict the air flow in.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

You don't need any more intake holes. You only have one 6" out, so four 6" in is more than plenty.

Thing is, the way your current system is set up, you are not doing much at all in the grow space but moving air around inside. Any air that is sucked out of there is only done by mistake...what I mean is the glass in the tube, or the ducting isn't sealed if any air is leaving.

If you add another small fan, you can keep the same configuration, but take the scrubber out of it. This would keep the light cool without having to scrub the air, providing you have no leaks.
Then use the system you have now with the scrubber to suck the air directly from the top of your cab. This will then make your passive intakes come into play and you can see what your cab will really do. I can almost guarantee you that anything more than 75degF and you are going to start cooking in there as is.

Fans on the intake hole are not needed, and help little at all. Use the fan to keep the air inside moving. The exhaust fan and the intake holes will take care of themselves.

I assume that stealth is not an issue. You will probably have lots of light leaving this box as is.
Are you covering the holes with anything? If so, realize that anything too thick will really restrict the air flow in.

Very sound advice HD is giving here. You would do well to put it into practice. Your ladies will thank you for it.


p.s. I'm using the same cab with only 220w of remote ballast cfls.

This will be just barely enough to supply me 24/7 with smoke between harvests and is cooled with a $20 fan......
How much smoke do you really need?

 

[DeezyH]

Thanks HD and HS!

This is what I was thinking:


The Vortex pulls air in through the Carbon Filter then pushes it through the cool tube to draw heat away and then up into the air flow muffle box.

I have virtually the same cab as you HD so just picture yours without the middle divider and that's what I'm using. My top shelf (your ballast room and fan) currently has the vortex and muffle box. There is about 18" from the underside of the top shelf to the top of the cool tube, so I'm thinking that a 12" carbon filter would be ideal.

What do you think?

 

[DeezyH]

As for light leakage, that's something I am working on. I foamed the inside of the cab, and have weather striping around the doors. I am also looking for some kind of latch for the door to lock into when its shut. Not sure what they are called. For the intake holes I am going to use a piece of ducting to keep light leakage to a minimum.

It's still a work in progress to be sure, but I am working on it slowly but surely.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

As for light leakage, that's something I am working on. I foamed the inside of the cab, and have weather striping around the doors. I am also looking for some kind of latch for the door to lock into when its shut. Not sure what they are called. For the intake holes I am going to use a piece of ducting to keep light leakage to a minimum.

It's still a work in progress to be sure, but I am working on it slowly but surely.

Glue/staple/secure strips of denim jeans along the inside, hinge-side, of the doors. I hear inner tubing for bicycles works well also. That will take care of your light leaks along the door edges.

I screwed a hook-latch into the backside of one of my doors and the eye into the underside of the top shelf. It holds the one door securely shut.

To lock it I drilled a hole and have a simple deadbolt latch installed that secures against the backside of the other door.

It's not going to stop a thief but it will keep someone from simply opening the door and looking.

The light leak where the doors meet is indeed easily blocked with duct tape forming a little lip.

Good luck!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Let me touch on cab construction for a sec....the middle divider is a main support of the box. I also looked at taking mine out at one time, but I decided to have a slit veg/flower cab.
I suggest that you take cut a small board (a 1x1 is probably plenty large) that goes from bottom to top shelf, just like the divider did, only just up front where the doors come together. This gives you a stable place for the foam and door to come together with some pressure. Without an upright there is may be hard to get the doors sealed and firm like you want them. It will help any sort of locking deal you make. It will also add stability to your top shelf. It will basically put the edge that you had with the full divider in place, but leaves the cab open inside.

Sounds like you are on the way to figuring out the light proofing of the doors with weatherstip, etc... Now consider the light leak the intakes provide. It never hurts to place some panty hose over the intakes, providing you have enough, which you do. Just be sure you clean the material every month or so, as it will clog up even in the cleanest environments.
OR....consider this...the bottom of the cab floor is elevated and has only the front and sides covered at the bottom. The back is open at the very bottom. If you cut a piece of plywood that is an inch or so shy of the whole bottom on all sides (46 x 18), you could cut your intake holes in the very bottom of the cab. Then put the piece in and elevate it with a few 1"-2" blocks. This will allow you to have more than enough intake holes that are blocked from light, and the intake air will be the coolest it can be. The air will also be directed straight up and around the plants. Some take it even further and put the added board on rails so you can easily pull the whole scrog out of the box for plant maintenance and watering.

Now the air system...
Not sure where you cab is, but with low temps I assume it is not in the house.
What you have done by hanging the filter, and then sucking through it is a good move. But, I would take that air immediately out. What I do is 6" duct from there to the top of the cab and out to directly above the cab and through a hole in the ceiling of my garage.
The air is vented into the attack, which is where I have my fans too.

By continuing on with the air as you have, you are now pushing air. If there is one little bit of a leak in the duct or light reflector, you will have positive pressure in the cab. This will cause even the smallest of odors to escape unchecked.
If you separate the scrubber air from the light air, you can get back to negative box pressure. But you will need another fan to do this. It won't have to be more than a 6" Suncourt inline to do the job. ($27 home dePot) Or, you can always stack another one on the first for increased pressure suck. But you still have less money in fans than another Vortex. And that air needs not be scrubbed, just make sure you have your reflector sealed up well. Glass tubes are much easier to leak proof, but reflectors can be sealed as well. And suck the air through, don't blow it anywhere if you can help it.
You could possibly tee your light ducts back into the scrubber ducts in the top of the box, and get by without another fan for the lights, however the air is not going to move as well as it could with two separate fans.

HS's idea on the locks will work a treat. What I did is mount up a hasp on each door at the very top middle. I held the doors in tight against the foam seals and drilled in the hasps from there. Once they are screwed in, the hasps will secure the doors individually quite well.

 

[DeezyH]

Let me touch on cab construction for a sec....the middle divider is a main support of the box. I also looked at taking mine out at one time, but I decided to have a slit veg/flower cab.
I suggest that you take cut a small board (a 1x1 is probably plenty large) that goes from bottom to top shelf, just like the divider did, only just up front where the doors come together. This gives you a stable place for the foam and door to come together with some pressure. Without an upright there is may be hard to get the doors sealed and firm like you want them. It will help any sort of locking deal you make. It will also add stability to your top shelf. It will basically put the edge that you had with the full divider in place, but leaves the cab open inside.

I found this out the hard way...haha.
When I built the cab the first time I followed the directions but omitted the middle divider. The cab was EXTREMELY flimsy and ended up collapsing on itself when I tried to lift it. As it collapsed all the plastic and metal dowels sheared right off taking bits of cab with them. So I ended up going back to HD and buying a second cab and that's what I am using now.

This time in order to compensate for the missing middle section I attached the doors from cab1 to the back of cab2. I made sure all shelves and supports were tied into the back panels. This works out better because the back piece that comes with the cab is 1/8" thick paper and not very good for what we want to use it for. The top and bottom shelf is braced by one of the leg pieces (2"x4') from cab1. Overall it's far more rigid and solid feeling than before and I would recomend anyone that buys one of these cabs to include a solid back panel at least 1/2" thick.

Sounds like you are on the way to figuring out the light proofing of the doors with weatherstip, etc... Now consider the light leak the intakes provide. It never hurts to place some panty hose over the intakes, providing you have enough, which you do. Just be sure you clean the material every month or so, as it will clog up even in the cleanest environments.

It is definetly my weekend project to get the cab sealed and light proof. I will probably try the pantyhose first and if not go with some pvc elbows.
I cannot do the intakes on the bottom cab floor for two reasons:
1. The intake holes are already in place and are a PITA to fill/redo
2. The bottom is not open like yours, see above for construction info.

Now the air system...
Not sure where you cab is, but with low temps I assume it is not in the house.
What you have done by hanging the filter, and then sucking through it is a good move. But, I would take that air immediately out. What I do is 6" duct from there to the top of the cab and out to directly above the cab and through a hole in the ceiling of my garage.
The air is vented into the attack, which is where I have my fans too.

By continuing on with the air as you have, you are now pushing air. If there is one little bit of a leak in the duct or light reflector, you will have positive pressure in the cab. This will cause even the smallest of odors to escape unchecked.
If you separate the scrubber air from the light air, you can get back to negative box pressure. But you will need another fan to do this. It won't have to be more than a 6" Suncourt inline to do the job. ($27 home dePot) Or, you can always stack another one on the first for increased pressure suck. But you still have less money in fans than another Vortex. And that air needs not be scrubbed, just make sure you have your reflector sealed up well. Glass tubes are much easier to leak proof, but reflectors can be sealed as well. And suck the air through, don't blow it anywhere if you can help it.

I like your idea, here's how I envision it:


The carbon scrubber is over in a corner mainly because there is already a hole there. It also makes it convenient to use my muffle box which cuts down on the noise the Vortex makes by a lot.

The position of the duct fan can go on either end of the cooltube, I have it picuted on the exit side pulling air through the tube.

During summer and winter the room's ambient temperature stays fairly constant at 63-74F. For it to get to see 74F the outside temperature has to be near 100, which is extremely rare. Winter temps are constant regardless of outside weather.