New Soil Blend - Opinions Please!

[NNFarms]

Alright guys, have followed here on IC for years, just never posted. Am a fan of several organic and no-till mixes. Clackamas, Subcool, The Rev, etc. All good info IMO.


I've had a fair amount of success in both organic indoor and outdoor, but have thrown together a new batch that is currently composting, for the next couple weeks, then will be CEC, NPK, PH tested, and if all tests are good, will be throwing several ladies in it to see how they do.


The Vegging blend we do is very similar, except reduced amounts and differences in certain inputs, all inputs are sourced organic. I also tend to blend what I consider a little "lighter" than what some others would say and have had very good results.





This is for a cubic yard of soil.


Base:
1/3 Sphagnum Peat
1/3 Perlite
1/6 (120lbs) EarthWorm Castings
1/6 (120lbs) Composted Hardwood Material
5lbs 6-Row Malted Barley Flour

2lbs Insect Frass
2lbs Azomite
1.5lbs Oyster Shell Flour

1/2lb Powdered Dolomite Lime

2lbs Diatomite Powder
3lbs Hydrolyzed Feather Meal
2lbs Alfalfa Meal
2lbs Neem Seed Meal
4lbs Crab Shell Meal
3lbs Aerobically Composted Poultry Manure
5lbs Fish Bone Meal
2lbs High P Seabird Guano
5lbs Greensand
5lbs Kelp Meal
2lbs Langbeinite




I also do add both a bacterial inoculant to jumpstart the composting process as well as adding some biofungicide properties to the soil. I also add mycorrhizae to the soil, but this happens after the cooking is done and I'm ready to plant, also I inoculate the root ball.


Want thoughts and opinions here... any pointers or questions definitely welcome. Always looking to learn and gain knowledge.


Thanks!



Nutrients:

 

[NNFarms]

Sorry the post is a little funky and out of order... not sure what that is about. :|

 

[troutman]

If I would be tasked to mix a soil with that many ingredients without prior experience I would mix
everything on your list except the dolomitic lime. Then I would test the pH and add only enough
dolomitic lime to bring the pH to the right level and take note of that amount. Then next time I
would be all set to mix it up knowing the pH would be perfect.

Good Luck.

 

[NNFarms]

If I would be tasked to mix a soil with that many ingredients without prior experience I would mix
everything on your list except the dolomitic lime. Then I would test the pH and add only enough
dolomitic lime to bring the pH to the right level and take note of that amount. Then next time I
would be all set to mix it up knowing the pH would be perfect.

Good Luck.

Thank you much for the reply!



I do agree with you. I actually don't add much lime, and am mostly only using it to add calcium and magnesium. I don't like the natural Cal/Mag offset of just dolomite, hence the use of oyster shell flour.



Also, cool thing I've found about composted hardwood mulch as it breaks down it tends to become a little more alkaline, which allows me to attempt to buffer soil less, and helps to offset the acidity of the peat as it breaks down as well.

 

[Rico Swazi]

3lbs Hydrolyzed Feather Meal
2lbs Alfalfa Meal
2lbs Neem Seed Meal

3lbs Aerobically Composted Poultry Manure

seems like a shit tonne of nitrogen especially the feather meal which I believe will continue delivering N at flower time.

since you have run this mix before I take it that is what you have found in the past? Stayed green til chop?
Lime being the exception, does your mix cooking now have the same ingredients and proportions?
I am curious on how it will perform out of the box is why I ask.

I also do add both a bacterial inoculant to jumpstart the composting process as well as adding some biofungicide properties to the soil

Very curious on what bacterial inoculant you speak of and why biofungicide? isn't that a bit counterproductive?

 

[NNFarms]

3lbs Hydrolyzed Feather Meal
2lbs Alfalfa Meal
2lbs Neem Seed Meal

3lbs Aerobically Composted Poultry Manure

seems like a shit tonne of nitrogen especially the feather meal which I believe will continue delivering N at flower time.

since you have run this mix before I take it that is what you have found in the past? Stayed green til chop?
Lime being the exception, does your mix cooking now have the same ingredients and proportions?
I am curious on how it will perform out of the box is why I ask.


Very curious on what bacterial inoculant you speak of and why biofungicide? isn't that a bit counterproductive?

I haven't ran this exact batch, but very similar. Next (one above) will be up in a solid month to 6 weeks of cooking and we'll put it to the test.

The poultry manure I'm using actually has a higher P rating than it does N, but it still does have a fair amount of N.

With prior runs I haven't really had an issue, formerly ran with blood meal included, but I want to diversify the type of available N. All plants typically autumn without real issues, never had super dark foliage or harsh flower. Seems to me the plant is kind of calling for what it wants rather than it seeming to be force feeding it at finish. I actually no-dig/no-till this type soil (not exact) outdoor with several mulch and compost layering, cover crop, etc.

You very well may be right however as I did try to add more N to compensate for the higher woody material I added right into the mix to try to "jumpstart" the humus in soil quicker, which I had not done previously. I'm not wanting to tie up too much N given the fact I'm using a wood material in this mix, my personal estimate it still has at least 50-100 : 1 ratio carbon to nitrogen, so I'm expecting some N to get used/tied up breaking the wood material down even further.
Previously, in a 1 cubic yard mix I've used somewhere in the realm of 8lbs+ of blood meal, along with some other manures and such. I've never really had a problem with overly green at harvest. Then again I do know the breakdown rate of some of these is slower release than blood meal also, but the slower release nutrients IMO work better in a soil that will be reused or no-tilled.

Maybe I've overcompensated or over thought it? Regardless, we're going to give it a shot. LOL!


I use a combination of several things, from basic bacterias that are composters, bacillus subtillus is a great example of a biofungicide, pretty common, but pretty effective. Bacillus amyloliquefaciens is another good example of a bacteria that out competes pathogen funguses and such, and apparently when used in conjunction with the proper mycorrhizae, I use 2 only, glomus intraradices and glomus mosseae, it is supposed to allow the myco to be more productive at colonizing the plant's roots. Now, I'm not a microbiologist by any means either however, this has seemed to be pretty effective.



I much appreciate the input.

 

[Rico Swazi]

Just thinking out loud is all

You may run into trouble when you say

I'm expecting some N to get used/tied up breaking the wood material down even further.

The composting process should be complete before you use it in a mix IMO.
I do like the high carbon to nitrogen ratio.
I myself would use the woody material as mulch on top.

By counterproductive I mean that your 120 lbs of quality earthworm castings should have sufficient B.subtillus already there.

Emphasis being on it being quality (V)compost

Instead of introducing foreign bacillus microbes , go the BIM route and make yourself some Lacto B. (there is a great thread by jaykush on the subject)

It would be so nice to see those tests when you get them
Thank you for taking the time

 

[NNFarms]

Just thinking out loud is all View Image


You may run into trouble when you say The composting process should be complete before you use it in a mix IMO.
I do like the high carbon to nitrogen ratio.
I myself would use the woody material as mulch on top.

By counterproductive I mean that your 120 lbs of quality earthworm castings should have sufficient B.subtillus already there.

Emphasis being on it being quality (V)compost

Instead of introducing foreign bacillus microbes , go the BIM route and make yourself some Lacto B. (there is a great thread by jaykush on the subject)

It would be so nice to see those tests when you get them
Thank you for taking the time

Well, I do practice no-till, so I am definitely in tune with top dressing and layering also. But, honestly, woody material, even in the large name-brand soils is still composting. Except in all honestly, I've found the bagged soil industry typically uses pine mulch, where I use a triple ground and composted hardwood material "mulch", which has a better nutrient quality and more natural sugars. (Mainly maple). But you are right, I am sure the castings very well do have a ton of subtillis, among many other bacterias in it already. The bacterial inoculant is likely something I could drop I am sure. I get 20# of castings for $3 at a local organic worm farm, and they have always been very very good castings, exceptionally rich. What I'm looking to do is mix very large batches of this in the futures, several yards at a time. So I will be likely changing inputs, dropping some, dialing some things in, etc. Each batch will likely be tested before and after growing in until I find the balance I personally want. This batch above is cooking now, once it's cooked I will be getting it sampled. I have also just sent in a sample for testing of my outdoor no-till to see where it sits as well.

 

[NNFarms]

Forgot to add this mix also has a couple pounds of Bio-Char as well.

 

[Rico Swazi]

NNFarms, take a look at this thread=
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=351481


Slownickle, gowingcrazy, jidoka and a host of others posting in that thread can help you better than I can from here on out.



The weather was rainy and I had time to kill so to speak.
I suggest you post your mix in the lounge and have the smartfolk give it a go.


all the best,

Rico

 

[NNFarms]

NNFarms, take a look at this thread=
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=351481


Slownickle, gowingcrazy, jidoka and a host of others posting in that thread can help you better than I can from here on out.



The weather was rainy and I had time to kill so to speak.
I suggest you post your mix in the lounge and have the smartfolk give it a go.


all the best,

Rico

Much appreciated, will check that out. Thanks!

 

[NNFarms]

Exactly one week of "cook" time on this batch.



Will still add a little Basalt and Gypsum on Tuesday likely. Remix and let compost another several weeks... will be turned once a week.