New shoots turning yellow

[bilbobonger]

Been looking through pages and pages of nute def pics, and haven't seen anything quite like this. Seems to be getting worse everyday. Working it's way in from the outer edges on the newest shoots. Leaf veins turning yellow as well as the rest.

I have plants that were vegged out in two separate locations. Most, including the one in the pic (masta kush), were vegging in coco and showed no signs of deficiency before being moved into my room. Several others (headband), that came from a different location were vegged in soil and had yellow shoots when I got em. They had been given no nutrients whatsoever.

I've since transplanted all into 5 gallon containers w/soil (happy frog/light warrior) and gave them straight water that had sat out for about 24 hours, which according to my Ph tester showed as being about 6.5. Although that same water which has now had about a week to sit in my res is showing a Ph of 7.4 and a PPM of about 70. I haven't given them any nutes yet, just been waiting for them to dry out first.

A gave them all a couple more days to veg in the five gallon planters under the HPS's before flipping them over to twelves last Friday. Since Friday, the yellowing has spread to the rest of the plants, and for this reason I'm wondering if this is some kind of disease. RH has remained between 45% and 65%, and the temps have been as high as 84F and as low 64F. I've since put in a small heater at night, and have been keeping the temps between 68 and 80F.

I've sprayed them all down with Serenade Disease control (had a little bit of PM) which made my room smell like rotten ass for a number of days. Seems to have gotten rid of the PM, but has made no apparent difference on the yellowing shoots.

Anyone have any suggestions? I can't bare the thought of losing another crop.

Thanks,
Bilbo

 

[bilbobonger]

Been having some trouble posting pics. Lemme know if that one didn't go through for some reason.

Thx.

 

[jyme]

it looks like a iron or sulfur def. with a ph at 7.5 i would say an iron thats a high ph i would try and bring it down to about 6.5-6.8

 

[bilbobonger]

it looks like a iron or sulfur def. with a ph at 7.5 i would say an iron thats a high ph i would try and bring it down to about 6.5-6.8

Thanks for the response jyme. I was looking at those in JC's bible, what threw me was that he says the veins remain green. In this case, mostly at the severely affected tips, veins are just as yellow as the leaf. And for Iron, JC says that the yellowing starts from the opposite end of the leaf tips.

Been wanting to hit em with nutes and drop the Ph, but I've been waiting for the soil to dry out first. Some are still pretty wet. Went straight from four inch planters to 5 gals.

You think I should go ahead and hit em w/nutes? Or perhaps just water w/a lower Ph?

 

[hazy]

The problem with looking at pics of deficiencies is that sometimes the diagnoses is wrong. Sometimes even if the deficiency described is correct, there are overlaps and similarities between different things.
An iron def will show as yellowing between veins, but throw in a manganese def at the same time and you'll get that arrowhead of green in the leaflets.
Doesn't really matter as long as you get that pH down so those micro nutes don't get locked out.

 

[Ganja baba]

yellowing from the top normaly indicates high ph if every thing else is right ,correct your ph before adding any thing else , you are locking out nutes at this ph mate , good luck hope you sort it

 

[bilbobonger]

Thanks for the help. I'm gonna get that Ph down right away.

 

[milehimedi]

check and balance pH daily

 

[EvilTwin]

Went straight from four inch planters to 5 gals.

This is part of the problem. Should have had at least one intermediate transplant. The small plants can't use up the water and the pot stays wet too long. Bad for roots.
ET

 

[bilbobonger]

This is part of the problem. Should have had at least one intermediate transplant. The small plants can't use up the water and the pot stays wet too long. Bad for roots.
ET

Thanks for the post ET. Is it ok to do this intermediate veg stage under HPS? Didn't leave myself much space in my veg room. Or perhaps just use smaller planters for bloom next time around?

Bilbo

 

[EvilTwin]

Thanks for the post ET. Is it ok to do this intermediate veg stage under HPS? Didn't leave myself much space in my veg room. Or perhaps just use smaller planters for bloom next time around?
Bilbo

Generally the thinking is that the bluer light for veg (from MH or flouros) is best for tight node spacing. But I've heard of people vegging under hps without excessive stretching. You'll just have to try it.

Far as smaller planters...that depends on how tall you want to grow. I seem to recall a gallon per foot is adequate. So unless you're growing 5' treez, you could probably use smaller pots.

Having said that, I recently read a post describing how you can up-pot into larger pots without root problems. Involves controlling the volume of water and watering in the middle leaving the outside dry. Rather then saturating the whole pot.
Cheers,
ET

PS: Just in case you have some root rot from pot staying too wet too long, you might consider treating with H2O2 next time you water. Could be part of your current problem.

 

[bilbobonger]

Thanks ET.

Starting to look like a horror show in there. Leaf tips are starting to die.

 

[bilbobonger]

Thanks again for the help everyone. A lotta noobs out there like me, that don't have a mentor to fall back on when shit starts going to hell. Can't trust the growshops, all they wanna do is sell me shit.

Bilbo

 

[hazy]

They had been given no nutrients whatsoever.

Half your mix is light warrior, which is a seed starting formula with little nutes? Why don't you give them some fertilizer. and keep that pH down to 6.0 - 6.5

 

[bilbobonger]

Half your mix is light warrior, which is a seed starting formula with little nutes? Why don't you give them some fertilizer. and keep that pH down to 6.0 - 6.5

Will do. Thanks Hazy. Got some H&G AB I'll mix in with the next watering.

Light warrior was something dude at the shop recommended. I think just to lighten it up a bit considering the Happy Frog didn't have much perlite. Think I'm just gonna buy a big bag of perlite next time around. It'd be a lot easier on my wallet.

 

[bilbobonger]

Still having problems here. I've dropped the Ph to about 6.2. I've mixed in House and Garden A&B "soil" nutrients at the recommended dosage. Just seems to be getting worse.

This is the third run now with what appears to be the same recurring issues. I've switched mediums, nutrients, strains. My stock water's at about 70ppm's, although the Ph seems to always be fluctuating. Sometimes it'll come out of the tap right at 6.0. Other times, it'll be as high as 8.0. Never seems to stay stable in my res either. I'll dial it in where I want it, then after it sits in the res a while, it rises again. I mixed up some "MagicGreen" foliar spray last night as directed with a hit of "WetBetty plant penetrator" and the Ph dropped down to 5.0. Then I've gotta use a bunch of Ph up. Is this normal? Should I be using an RO filter perhaps?

I've had one successful run since building the room. The only thing I did differently was that I watered by hand. I've since spent a bunch of $ on a table and res with an automated drip system, and everything's been complete shit ever since.

Here's a pic of one of the leaves.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Bilbo,
Sorry you're still having problems. That does sort of narrow it down to something that all of the previous grows have in common with your current grow. Water is certainly one of them.

I can sum up what I know about water...fairly simple. At first glance, 70ppm water would seem ideal. Anything under 200ppm should be ok. But one thing you have to consider is fluctuations from the water company. It's not something that you see people talking about, but after major repairs it's very common for a water company to use higher-then-normal amounts of Chlorine and/or Chloramine. That could explain your variations and range in ph. So I'd start first with your water company. Ask them if they do that...use more Chlorine. If they ask why you're asking...tell them you want to install an RO filter and you want to find out first what the Chlonine/Chloramine situation is.

Normally I'd say no to your question about an RO filter. But it's becoming one of the last things you haven't changed. You could try a grow hauling RO (drinking water) from the store. See if that helps.

Also I see a little overtending. It's a very common noob trait. Like the use of the penetrator drops, and then low ph, and then ph up. Don't take any offense about this...but it's something that causes problems. More so in hydro then soil though.
ET

 

[bilbobonger]

Thanks for the response ET. No offense taken on the overtending. I'm here to learn.

Put out a couple calls to the local water company, but everyone's out for the weekend. I'll call back on monday and see if I can get the rundown on the chlorine and/or chloramine content. It does smell like chlorine. Even after sitting out for several days.

 

[EvilTwin]

I'm located in a rural water district, but the city bills us. They send out an annual report (water quality), and maintain a list of people who need to be notified if a chlorine burst is going to be done. People with RO systems or dialysis or whatever. I put myself on that list so I can shut off my RO unit for a few days. Your city might have something similar though I can see people worrying about security issues. In a small town you actually get to know the people involved. Rambling and stoned...hope we can get you sorted out.
ET

 

[bilbobonger]

Ok, looks like the chorine level here's at 1mg/l on average, and ranging as high as 2.1mg/l. There's no assigned units, just says 1, i'm assuming they mean (mg/l). Haven't been able to find any info on whether we have "chorine bursts" or not. Found something on some periodic flushes of some sort, but I don't think this affects my side of town.

Seems that if it were the water, I would've had these problems right from the get. I had the one run indoors with soil that went really well, same water, same nutes. I started having problems when I set up the table and switched to coco. I was certain that this was a coco problem, and that it would be resolved by switching back to soil.

I did light off a couple pyrithrin bug bombs along with a "fungaflor" bomb right around the time when all this started happening. Haven't fired one off since October though. Racking my head trying to think of what could be causing this. The res/and or the drippers perhaps, maybe they got contaminated somehow? Doesn't make much sense, but I didn't have any problems when I was using a plastic trash-can, a water wand, and soaking up the runoff with a towel. Haven't been happy with the way the drippers seem to streamline through the medium, rather than getting that even disbursement like handwatering or ebb and flow, and some seem to get watered more than others. Can't imagine how this would apply, but could having a constant fluctuation in room pressure cause problems like this?

Sorry if I'm rambling. I'm high... This shit's getting ridiculous. So much wasted money in electricity alone. I should've just stuck with the trash-can and the water-wand. Fuqin OCD kicks in and try and fix everything.

Bilbo