New here and could use some help. Plants get all messed up when they go into flower

[MassNugz]

What’s up guys, been having trouble with my last couple of runs and was hoping for some insight. Hope you have time because this is going to be long haha. Been consistently hitting numbers in my grow rooms over the years and about 6 months ago my 6k garden started looking all funky as soon as I flipped to flower. I thought it might have been off gassing from the OSB I used to build out that spot. I ended up with 2lbs, didn’t even pay for my overhead* Anyways after that run I ripped that room down and built a new spot else where. This time it would be 2 4K rooms. Flower room 1 took off and I had an amazing run while flower room 2 ended up looking just like my old 6k spot. I ended up asking around on IG and people were saying russet mites. I grabbed a 100x scope and looked for hours on end at 100’s of leaves but never found anything. Regardless, I knew I could afford another crop like my 6k so at day 7 of flower I threw everything out in F2 room, I also threw away my plants for my next run in F1 room and sterilized everything. Fast forward to now and for the last month and a half I’ve been vegging my plants. They were healthy and beautiful until I put them into flower 5 days ago. They’re doing the same thing as my previous run. I have no idea what it could be so I’m hoping somebody on here can give me some insight. I know for a fact there are no pest in my room but at a total loss of what it could be. Anything helps, thanks!

 

[MassNugz]

Growing in 6” RW block DTW. Running aqua flakes using single ended 1k hps. 80 degrees 50-55%RH co2 at 1200ppm. I don’t believe it’s russets because when I thought it was I threw everything out in my spot and sterilized the whole place and waited 3 weeks (life span of russets and eggs) before I put anything back in there. I got cuts from my cousin whose rooms are clean and smashing. The plants were beautiful and healthy in veg for the last month and a half. As soon as I flipped them to 12/12 they started to decline. They’re curling downward and yellow out like crazy and the leaves are thin and getting burn marks in between the veins of the leaves

 

[voidpainter]

Has anything else changed but the light schedule? Are you familiar with VPD?

 

[f-e]

Scrap the co2

 

[AgentPothead]

1200 ppm has to be high doesn't it? I don't run co2.

 

[MassNugz]

Voidpainter- only thing that changed is light schedule and yes, I’m familiar with vpd. F-E - the same thing happened to me last run as well and I didn’t have co2 at the time. Agentpothead- my cousin and I have similar setups with the same plants from same mothers and he’s cruising right along at 1200ppm of co2. I ended up turning co2 down yesterday to 750ppm and also set the room to 78-79 degrees rather than the 82-83 which when running co2 they like higher heat. Figured the plants are already stressed as it is so I turned down the environment

 

[mexweed]

probably the aqua flakes, what little I just read about it says it's a base nutrient, so not a complete nutrient, especially being in rockwool, looking at the ingredients list it only has potassium hydroxide which is definitely for ph balancing and not feeding the plants, what you want is monopotassium phosphate, potassium nitrate

compare the label to cns17 ingredients and you will see the problem

 

[MassNugz]

Mexweed- been growing with aqua flakes for years with no problems. Whatever is happening it only affects my plants when they go into flower. Veg is on point with the aqua flakes. Not to mention my cousin has the same set up as me woth the same cuts from same mother plant that came from my spot and his grow has no issue

 

[mexweed]

did a bit of poking around on some other forums that popped up when I searched aqua flakes and there are plenty of instances of people having problems

one of the things that seems most applicable to you is do you ever rinse the cubes to prevent salt buildup, house and garden makes this product called drip clean that is designed to be used with their salt nutes

also ran into some stuff about ph drift in reservoir setups

the washington state fertilizer database lists aqua flakes part A as 0.3-0-0.3 and part B as 0.1-0.3-0.6, for starters that's basically no phosphorus, and there are no micronutrients whatsoever, as a stand alone in an inert medium that is definitely insufficient

 

[MassNugz]

I do run drip clean and I also mix up a rez daily. There is a bit of pH drift but nothing crazy enough to make the plants look how they do.

 

[MrMMJ]

I wouldn't be ruling out bugs yet. That looks a lot like a reaction to russets to me. They're not hard to see with a 100x, (or 40x really). Though typically slow movers, they can easily scurry out of view quite quickly. A good spot to look is on a fan leaf, right where the individual leaf fingers come together at it's stem. Unlike spider mites, they'll be on the top side here, not just underneath. Don't know why, but every infested garden I've been to has had several bunching up around there. Not usually found all over the underside of leaves like spiders, they like stems and viens. The crotch's formed at leaf to petiole, leaf stem to branch, and side branch to main branch connections are the best places to find them hiding out.

When young vegging plants get them, it starts with a couple, and takes time for the herd to increase in numbers enough to where the buildup of their toxic injections begin to overwhelm the plants defenses. They do little physical damage by chewing, it's the toxin that slowly builds up. The point of adequate herd size and toxicity is usually around the same time most are ready to flip. The stress of the flip on the plant can increase the showing of symptoms, but isn't the cause.


Hopefully I'm wrong, as they're a real pita. Keep in mind, 3 weeks outlasts their normal lifecycle, but the little f#*kers can hibernate for months.
Good luck, I'll be watching hoping you get this solved !

 

[MassNugz]

MrMMJ- I appreciate to post! Plants turned around after I gave them a big flush and started feeding a higher ec. Looked at a bunch of leaves with both a 40x and 100x scope and didn’t see anything.

 

[MrMMJ]

Really glad to hear that. I'm sure you must be relieved ! Problems like this are great teachers, now you're a more experienced grower ! Good luck

 

[MassNugz]

MrMMJ- so happy about the turn around and I owe it to everyone on here! Plants are going hard right now. I think they just needed a higher ec after I flushed them out. Needless to say, next run will be a smooth transition in that first week of flower. Thanks again to everyone that helped out!