New Grower Quick Ventillation/Lighting Question

[Slezman]

Whatup ICMAG,

I am new to the community but I have delighted in the fact that there is such an active and knowledgable growing community. I wish I had started reading ICMAG and OG a long time ago . . .

To the questions at hand: I have done my homework and I have decided to grow using a 48" x 32" x 62" (WxLxH) using a bucket system. So far I'm going with a 600w HPS light with a squirrel cage of at least 170cfm on the top along with passive vents on the bottom. Do you all have any recomendations for me before I go out and by some nice equipment (read expensive))? I am worried that my light and ventillation system will overheat my cab. Should I aircool the light with an additional inline fan and a Y connector to the squirrelcage? Is a 170 cfm fan enough for me? Will adding a carbon scrubber hinder ventillation to much. Should I get a vaportek as opposed to a scrubber?

In case you all are wondering i'm growing super silver haze. I will get pics up as soon as I install my light and ventillation. Any and all criticism/recomendations are welcome!! I have enjoyed benifiting from all the posts I have read and I hope to share my grows with you guys in the future!

 

[SpacedCWBY]

Sounds like a nice little setup - and an excellent strain! You may want to scrog them though. With a 5' tall cab you may get a little cramped if you just let it go naturally. If your bucket is 12" and your light and fan another 12" total, you're down to 3' of vertical growing space minus the distance between the lights and the plants. Good for some varieties, but you'd probably run out of space with those SSH's. A scrog will most likely improve your overall yeild anyhow and keep your ladies free of sunburn. I plan on trying some SSH next time around and I was considering basically the same scenario that you have here.

As for the heat buildup - does your reflector have a glass enclosure on the bottom with ducting flanges on the sides or do you have a batwing or something similar? If you have enclosed type with the ducting flange, I would definetly air cool it just to be safe and just because you can. An inline would be best for this purpose. If you have a batwing, keep the setup that you have, but make sure that you put a fairly strong fan (7" wall clip fan from walmart works good) pointed at the at the light to help move the air around until the hot air gets sucked out of the top. As for your scrubber, see what the temps are with the 170cfm that you have now. As it stands, without the scrubber, you'd be completely changing the air in the cab every 30 seconds or so, depending on intake. Not a bad exchange rate. Not sure how much your scrubber would impede that. But if they go to high during a test run, then upgrade the vant fan. Hard to tell until you give it a go. If your ballast isn't already outside of the box, try your hardest to do so. WAY TO MUCH unwanted heat build up there.

I'm a big fan of test runs. Basically the whole setup running without any plants. Just your hydro setup (monitor water conditions), lights, scrubbers and fans. It will help you fine tune your garden from the beginning with less hassle and stress to your ladies.

Best of luck and I can't wait to see your grow show!

BTW - If you haven't seen this yet, it's an awesome box.

Tick's Box from OG reposted here by Pontiac - Awesome setup...

 

[Slezman]

Thanks for the comments SpacedCWBY. Very helpful indeed. I think I will try a test run, I don't know why I didn't think of that before. My seeds are taking forever to come anyway.

Yeah the height issue was foremost in my mind when I built my box. I actually did use a modified version of Tick's box ( I though I would want some more height). I've never scrogged before but from what I've read it doesn't seem extremely difficult so I'll give it a try.

One last question, have you used a Vaportek system for older control?

 

[SpacedCWBY]

Thanks for the comments SpacedCWBY. Very helpful indeed. I think I will try a test run, I don't know why I didn't think of that before. My seeds are taking forever to come anyway.

Yeah the height issue was foremost in my mind when I built my box. I actually did use a modified version of Tick's box ( I though I would want some more height). I've never scrogged before but from what I've read it doesn't seem extremely difficult so I'll give it a try.

One last question, have you used a Vaportek system for older control?

WOW, am I a complete dumbass or what? I meant to say LST, not scrog. See what happens when you smoke too much pot?

As for the reply, not a problem. You'd be suprised what you learn by sitting on here reading 2-3 hours a night.

As for the LST'n, super easy. Let your babies get 5-6" tall and bend em over ever so gently so that they make a loop and use a twist tie to keep it there. The technique can also help limit your illegallity as well. In some states, more plants=more jail time. There is a great thread on here about LST'n. Can't remember where it is, I'm pretty sure it's a sticky though.

For odor control I've only personally used a carbon filter. I'm a cheapskate, so I made my own. Can't help you with the vaportek. I could blow a cigarrette though mine and you couldn't smell it. Not too bad for $30 in parts.

Good luck!

 

[Slezman]

Alright everyone, I finally set up my cab and I did a dry run. Bad new, the temps are way to high at around 88° F. Obviously this isn't unusable but I haven't even hooked my scrubber up yet and with the money I spent on my genetics, everything HAS to be perfect.

Let me explain the setup as to diagnos the problem. Ok I have 2 6"x11" passive vents on the bottom back of the cab. I got a nice hydrofarm radiant hood with a 600 watt hps in it. I bought a cooling kit (basically just flanges to attach to the hood so 4" ducting can be connected). On the outside top back of the box is a 265 cfm dayton squirrel cage fan. The fan is connected to the single oulet of a 4" "Y" duct. The other 2 ends of the y are on the inside of the cab. One branch has nothing connected to it and is purely to vent the air in the cab. The other branch has some 4" flexible ducting which is attached to the top of my hood. On the side of the hood is an 80 cfm inline fan. It's just attached direclty to the hood, so that there is no ducting on either side of it and the open end is just drawing air in from the room. If this description wasn't good enough let me know and I can clarify.

Air is definitely flowing into both exhaust inlets, but obviously not well enough since the temps are still high.

I'm thinking I might try blocking up the open part of the Y ducting so that all the exhaust air is being drawn through the hood. Hopefully this would get enough air flowing through the hood to cool that light down a little. But this would effectively make my exhaust in the middle of the cab as opposed to the top where it's supposed to be.

I was also reading on the growfaq mirror (http://68.103.98.234:6667/ogi/modules/growfaq/1528.htm) that for inline fans to be effective they need to have a diameters length of ducting attatched at either side. Anyone know if this is true?

I'm also thinkin that my tempature probe might be giving an incorrect reading beacause it's just dangling below the light where my plants would be so that the light is hitting it directly. I'm thinking the light hitting it could cause it to heat up so that it's not measuring the ambient temp of the room, but rather the radiant temperature produced by the light hitting the sensor. Is this possible? I guess I'll try making a little sun hat for it. . .

I'm really hoping that there is some solution to this problem which doesn't involve me buying more equipment, i.e. another squirrel cage to blow onto the light.

Ideas anyone?

I will be posting pics when everything is set up.

P.S. SPACEDCOWBOY - is your name a reference to the anime Cowboy Bebop?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Definitely ditch the open end of the Y connector. Suck it all through the hood.

 

[Slezman]

I tried blocking off the open end of the Y this morning and it made no difference at all in terms of temperature. Well actually it decreased the amount of air going in and out of the cab tremendously. Before I blocked it off, the passive vents could hold a piece of paper up, but now there is almost no air getting in there. . . Back to the drawing board. I really don't want to have to buy more fans.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Might want to consider opening those vents up with a 4" hole saw or some tin snips. I had a similar hydrofarm hood that was horrible for airflow until I did that. That's why they've ditched that louvered vent design in all current models.

If you've got the option to return/exchange that hood, it would be a wise choice as well. A hood for use in a confined space like a cab needs to have good airflow capabilities if it's going to be air cooled adequately.

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

Hiya Slezman

I agree with ^^^ MTF-Sandman. 4" diameter is IMO too restrictive for a good enough airflow for the light and the cabinet combined. Even a 465 cfm centrifugal would have a hard time against an extended lenght of 4" tubing + 4" openings. If there is any way to convert your setup to 6" ( more than twice the surface area of the 4" ) I believe you'd be set to go. If you can't convert or exchange the hood, you might want to consider a second fan - a smaller one to vent only the light with 4" ducting and the larger one venting the room with 6" ducting ( this would be my #2 choice, but it should work just as well ). You will get much better flow not combining the 2 systems into a Y, the limitation is the smallest diameter area in the ducting, adding more small branches gains nothing...

Another advantage of independent dual fan exhaust - the 6" system will exchange enough air and heat that the 4" system hooked to the light will have an easier time dumping heat as well ( the air it is drawing in will be cooler )...

I'd also recheck the area of your passive intakes. With a 6" exhaust I think you'd want a minimum of 3 x the intake area ( area of a 6" opening = 28 sq in ) or about 90 sq in to allow enough air in. In my cab I have 6" exhaust with 306 cfm blower and about 90 sq in passive intake, I'm going to add another 40-50 sq in to the intake - certain times of the year I need more air exchange.

I'm sure you'll figure out a good solution - I don't think you'll have to throw a lotta money at it, a re-design should do it.

Cheers

 

[Slezman]

Yeah I was thinking of cutting those vents out to make a gaping hole. . . I saw something like it on growfaq. Sandman, did you cut only the outside vents or the inside ones as well (the ones that are made out of the reflective material.)?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Cut through both of the layers. I opened up the vent at the end of the bulb and the one besides the mogul base on mine.

Just use a sharpie to mark the hole while the duct fitting is attached and remove the ID of the duct fitting.

 

[Slezman]

So I just got back from the hydro store after returning the hood. The guy who owns the place said "I've never seen anyone have this problem and I've sold hundreds of these hoods". I then showed him all your guys' posts and the growfag article about tearing out the vents on the hydrofarm hoods and he said "Well I wouldn't believe a bunch of stoneheads". To defend you guys I then showed him pics of my setup and the temperature gage and he was like "well, not everything works for everyone". . . .blah blah blah. . . He obvioulsy doesn't know what he's talking about. I wonder what he was smoking. . . .

Anyways, I told him to order the hydrofarm radiant 8" AC for me. I'm gonna keep my squirrel cage for the cab ventillation and I'm going to get a seperate fan for my light ventillation (as Mr. Greenjeans recommended). What's the best kind of fan to use? In my readings, I see most people using inline fans to cool lights. . .

 

[MTF-Sandman]

lol...he didn't want to take it back because he's probably having trouble selling them They work fine for an AC'd room, but in cabs or small closets they suck ass since there's no airflow through those crappy vents.

I use Hydrotek Silverstars now so that I don't have to mess with all the DIY crap associated with making them flow air decently...the Radiant 8" will work great though.

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

Slezman - if you can keep the ductwork short and straight just use the right size non centrifugal inline fan - check out mscdirect dot com and search for inline booster fan. If you need to twisty the ducting you'll need a centrifugal fan. I just searched for their 8" inline and it's 500 cfm for less than a 50.

 

[cheetos]

just curious what are the temps outside the box? The lower the intake temp the easier itll be keeping cool on the inside!

 

[Slezman]

Cheetos: Temps oustide the box are around 75.

GreenJeans: I'm going to need for my light to be adjustable so I guess I'm going to have to go with a centrifugal fan. Should I justuse an expander/reducer from the fan to the 8" ducting?

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

Sure - an 8-6 reducer would work fine with a centrifugal fan. Think that would take care of ya Slezman

 

[cheetos]

dude please dont get a booster fan. You HAVE to get a vortec or elecient inline fan to get the job done. The booster fans cant move enough air despite the cfm rating. If a little noise isnt a problem and you need something a little cheaper than a vortec check out the dayton blowers theyll move some air also. I tried one (six inch model from home depot) and threw it out two days later. My 400w hps in a 2' x 3' x 6' got the cab up to 96 degrees with the booster and my ac cranking at 73 degrees. Im running a vortec 6" now at 78 degrees.

 

[Mr GreenJeans]

cheetos
He's running his Dayton to vent the cab, the inline is only to vent the light, straight line ducting no major bends... IME the inline should move enough to cool off the light - if you had a 250+ Dayton in addition to your inline I think you'd have been ok too. But you're right, tough to cool a cab + 600W with only an inline, they lose too much flow to duct resistance.

 

[cheetos]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh well then that should work. Good luck!