New Experimental Organic Hydro Technique!

[LadyLargely]

Hah! Sounds pretty good Switch Avenger!

Thats a funny coincidence. DM and I are located in the Midwest and so used to get a lot of our grow supplies from Lowe's. This is where we discovered wonderful Bio Tone.

I've always run all-organic. I don't believe in that salt-based crap. DM on the other hand has had success with running small doses of salt ferts during flower. Admittedly, this tended to give his grows superior budmass compared to mine. Funnily enough that Green Light Super Bloom stuff is exactly the same salt nute as he used back in the day. I was always a bit jealous because it also has chelated iron, which is impossible to do organically.

You'll have to wait till his ass gets back in here to ask about what sort of dosages he ran.

Any old epsom salts will do and the kelp meal is a big plus. However you are going to need something that is equivalent to Bio Tone. It contains all sorts of magnesium and calcium and traces and slow-release potassium/phosphate that is a bitch-and-a-half to get individually. There are tons of multi-ingredient organics on the market. Bonide makes more than just Bio Tone and a lot of their organic mixes come pre-loaded with tons of great bennies! I love multi-ingredient powdered organics. They make it easy to get fancy extras like greensand and humic acid. Keep an eye out for something along these lines because you will need it.

Everything else is sounding good. Stay tuned in to my grow show for special tricks and tips on constructing and running a finished OBBT for cannabis.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Hey glad y'all enjoying the show

I have that calcium/phosphate stuff which is very concentrated for my teas. I am feeding a brew at the moment which is 75% worm bin runoff, 25% aquarium water with kelp (Seasol), fish emulsion, calcium/phos, molasses, humic acid granules and some gunpowder green tea leaves for good luck. O yeah and a wee drop of this silica/potash concentrate i have.

If my BM does start to struggle i will just rip er out and give her some extra lovin. It is working real good for the other un.

That list you have sounds nice Switch but go real easy with the epsom salts! I have overdone it before and fried my plants. Like LadyL says it is real hard to bugger this up.

If you have kelp, blood n bone, indo bat guano and an all round organic dry fert you are laughing. Grab yerself some molasses and make some seaweed/guano/urine(!) teas and your plants will have everything they need. Premix the lime for your Mg. That just leaves maybe a calcium boost...

Good luck and get stuck in!

 

[DrunkenMessiah]

The first OBBT bud porn on ICmag! YES!!!!

Silver_Surfer, you are the man! It seems fitting that as strong a supporter of organics such as you would be the first to show us all OBBT-produced flowers. Its obvious that you already had a strong organic green thumb when we got started. It will be fun watching those little budlets get all fat and sticky!

RipVanWeed

I would not fear my friend. Look how much greener the plants got after you put them in the OBBTs. I believe the symptoms you see are a result of nutrient shock. When the clone roots went past their old soil ball and pushed into your OBBT they where met with a wildly different soil chemistry. Some minor curling and crinkling is to be expected. I suspect by now they are already getting over this issue. Something tells me things will be looking much better in your next update.

Not that they look too terrible at the moment. Bushy, dark dark green and some very rapid growth. All seems well in your cabinet. No need for drastic measures like flushing or nute stripping just yet.

I almost figured something like this would happen when placing fairly mature clones into an active OBBT. The all-organic pre-incubated nature of them makes the OBBTs very well-suited to starting plants from seed. I think seedlings started straight in OBBTs will always be a bit happier and more vigorous than clones who will require an adjustment period as you have seen.

I wouldn't hold off on flowering too much longer. Stretch is particularly vigorous and bushy when running OBBTs, I know you're running a vertical 1000 watt and everything, but even still those ladies are gonna be HUGE!

Switch Avenger:
Lady L's advice is sound. OBBTs will happily take some salt nutes and I would generally encourage their use during flower to attain maximum yield. Super Bloom is the exact same salt nute I used back in my cannabis growing days. I ran three teaspoons of it per two gallons of water. Nail the ladies with that two or three times during flower, right after each starve cycle if you are doing that. Otherwise you sound pretty good. Keep an eye on Lady L's pictorial instructionals and I doubt you can go wrong!

As for the rest of you:

Excellent discussion as usual! Very happy to see the proposed en-masse OBBT is still being worked on. I have a feeling that Citizen024 will be shaking up the world of mass-scale cannabis cultivation in a way we haven't seen since the advent of the Bio Bucket!

Sorry for not being in here as often as I used to be to answer questions. I've gotten rather busy IRL and am running out of time to sit around on the internets. I used to make extra time to get on here so that questions could get answered and to make sure misinformation concerning OBBTs never got off the ground. However, now that Lady L has graced us all with here presence I am not so worried about it. I am satisfied that I planted the seed of this grow method in the collective consciousness of this community. It appears to be growing very well now, even in my absence.

I think I have successfully captured ICmag's imagination, for better or worse. There are several OBBT grows going now, one of which is being run by perhaps the only person in the world who knows more about it than me! I am confident that the technique will not soon dissapear, and with the advent of OBBT-generated bud porn I think our quiet little corner of the organic gardening world is about to get a lot more crowded!

There are some truly remarkable, resourceful and fantastically intelligent gardeners investigating this technique. I have the utmost confidence in you all! I think this group will be enough to popularize the OBBT and take it's design to new heights which I have not yet imagined. Its in your hands now ICmag, I've done my best to help you get started.

I'll still be lurking about, keeping tabs on this thread and answering new questions as they crop up. I definitely want to see where Citizen024 goes with this awesome recirculation idea. It will also be great watching the various OBBT gardens age and get finished. The timing couldn't be better. I am ready now to take a more passive role here on the forums which is perfect because my life necessitates that whether I was ready or not. You will certainly still see me around, especially on the weekends, but I think that my ranting has done all it can do.

My fellow green thumbs; good luck to you all and happy gardening!

-DM

 

[McDanger]

I"m gonna sit in on this along with Lady L, and RipVanWeed threads. Let the learning commence.

 

[McDanger]

Hey DM,
Would you suggest using different items to front load the medium if you were going to put a rooted clone into the OBBT and go directly to flower? If so, what?(reduce the N and increase the P)
Sounds like an experiment brewing.

 

[SwitchAvenger]

Oh yeah BTW DM, i would pm this too you but i can't just yet so; Your photobucket desided to kick the bucket. Was trying to read up on one of yours posts about overclocking flouros.

Heads up!

 

[rrog]

What are you people using for the "Organic Compost / Soil?"

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

I use recycled LC#1 soiless recipe as my medium. The organic part is all my own compost and wormcastings with charcoal from my ongoing Terra Preta experiment. I added a handful char in my mix for this grow. I also have the char that is recycled. I reuse my previous medium, just sieve it and rinse it once. The charcoal locks in valuable nutrients and benificial microbes.

 

[rrog]

SS where can I find this LC#1 Recipe? I'll also do a search.

So could I use this recipe, and create my own compost? The recipe calls for 50% perlite, 25% compost, and 25% perlite / verm. I'm pulling my hair out on this compost. I'm looking to cook a batch at this point. I wonder if I could have suitable compost in 30 days?

Hmmm.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

If you look on my Reclining Buddah 3 ways thread its on the first page. But ill tell you anyhoos:

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.

Dont stress about the compost. Grab a bag of the best you can find at your local gardening store. The main thing is the organic content for the microbes/fungi to populate. I highly recommend a handful or two of char per gallon soil. Its easy to make. See my Terra Preta thread if you interested.

My grow is still going well. I pulled out that other BM already as she wasnt lookin happy. Couldnt keep er moist. Watered her well but it just drained through.

Not sure if my big plant is a RB anymore... think there might have been a mix up. She is smelling way more fruity than usual.

 

[rrog]

Cool SS. After reading a lot last night and looking at the bag of plain ol compost I have here already, I think I'm good. I'll be doing the "Grab a bag of the best you can find at your local gardening store" thing.

I'll also start a compost pile, for the next time and because compost is just a cool thing for veggie and flower gardens.

Thanks,

 

[ripman]

Dolomite is a close relative to hydrated lime and should work well. People like to add Epsom Salts for both Mg and S but this is a really stupid idea. [...] An alternate source of Mg must be provided as well. I get mine from Bio Tone, your mileage will vary.

You certainly can't add all of the nutes in upfront but I maintain you can get enough secondaries and micros to last you the whole way through. The trick is water insoluble additives. Garden Sulfur, Fast-Acting Lime and the Mg in Bio Tone are all slow-release water insoluables. It is possible to add lots of these in upfront because they won't solute into solution and that means the plants won't 'see' them. Time, osmosis, and biological action of the microbes will liberate them from their delivery substrate and pipe them up into the plants eventually.

Hey DM and co, I'm progressing in the design of my OBBT but, before I do any investment, I need to assure myself I can recreate prefertilized soil as good as yours...

The problem is I've realized I live in a third-world country as far as distribution of organic ferts is concerned!!!

Since I will anyway have to buy some stuff from America from a webshop called New England Hydroponics I would like to ask a couple of questions:

1) For mycos, I have AN Piranha... apparently, it contains just 6 strains, namely "4 super strains of Glumus and 2 species of Trichoderma, including a variant of strain T-22", here is some more info if you want: Advancepedia
The question is: is it enough, should I supplement it by buying locally Voodoo Juice, or is it a better investment to buy Mycomadness for 45$?

2) Kelp Meal: I have 3 options Sea Horses Liquid Seaweed, General Organics BioWeed, Technaflora Soluble Seaweed Extract Organic, what would you buy and why? Consider I will buy Liquid Karma as well, the products above are not fully substitutable by it or are they?

3) A provider of insoluble Calcium and Magnesium... I can't source neither Fast Acting Lime nor Dolomite... what if i go with Botanicare CalMag Plus or Technaflora Magical? Are they good for insoluble calcium and magnesium or, if I can't find anything else, they are to be used in the weekly waterings?

Last quick questions: Is worm casting and worm humus the same or is the latter much stronger? Is compost required for the OBBT to function, and if yes, how can I buy it?

Hope somebody can help me out
ciao
Ripman

 

[rrog]

I'm not qualified to answer any of that. In fact I have an additional question for the group.

I've been reading about composting. Heats up pretty damned hot in a compost pile. Strikes me that this is all we're doing with OBBT. Controlled composting. So why doesn't it get hot?

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

No we aint composting... hehe.

We are using already composted ingredients. Maybe if you were gonna put a green manure or banana peel raw in your mix. You guys need to get a worm farm going and start feeding em fruit peels, nettles, comfrey, crushed eggshells, oyster shells and other stuff rich in C/MG. Then your castings will have everything you need.

I know i use a calcium boost and bottled nutes but now my worm farm is cranking i reckon they are a luxury not necessity. Especially with the addition of biochar.

I know a bloke who has a beaut tomato garden who just waters em with sheep shit soaking in a drum of water and seaweed. Some of the biggest and sweetest tomatoes i have seen.

You guys cant source dolomite? That sucks but keep looking. Maybe try and find some organic farmers in your area?

 

[rrog]

Surfer, there's a lot of discussion around about charcoal (not ash, as I understand it) in the organic grow. You're a fan, I take it?

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Yes i am a big fan. The benefits are well documented. Check out my Terra Preta thread.

Meanwhile... My biobox is booming!! :

Heres couple pics from last night. Compare the size of the young buds. One on the right is my biggest outside the biobox. Thats the BM i ripped out first.

 

[RipVanWeed]

Please Advise

Please Advise

Primarily for LadyLarge, but anyone and everyone chime in.

I've just flipped to 12/12. 5 gal. buckets...fully instep with the Drunk Mess and LL. The bottom 5" of the bucket is about 1/2 full so I'm soon to add.

I'm looking for suggestions for nutrient adds to encourage flowers. 2 days ago I topped up the reservoirs with a shot of kelp extract tea.

Should I try a guano tea, or more kelp, or just water?

Drunken Messiah thought I was a little light on K in my soil mix to start, he suggested that I give them Fish Emulsion...done.

With the preload of nutes in the soil/coco, how do I cut back on the N to help reduce leaf in the buds?

With the preload of nutes in the soil/coco, how do I starve during a flush, starve, feed regimen?

Is it critical to maintain a certian minimum level of water in the bottom of the bucket?

I have an improvement to the system, it takes awhile for the water to filter through the grow medium, and I have on occasion overfilled the rez. and had water overflow the exit hole. When this happens I put a cutdown soda bottle under the elbow I use at the overflow. Onetime the overflow filled up, right up to the top, when I was emptying the overflows, I noticed bubbles....seems air is escaping. With the air seeking the path of least resistance, I surmise a significant loss of air. Hence, I corked the overflows, I will uncork during refilling so the drains can function. I suggest others consider the same.

Thanks for help in advance,

RipVanWeed

 

[solarpowered_ca]

RipVanWeed good suggestion . Iv found the overflow a pain likewise and are going to seal it or plug it completely after this grow cycle.

Nice flowers there SilverSurfer. How many weeks into flower are they?

 

[rrog]

When I was drawing out my OBBT, that easy air escape point came to mind also. Here's a solution I was going to go with other than a plug.

If the desired overflow level was 6" from the bottom of the pail, then put your hole at 4" from the bottom. Little screen on it to keep out rock. Then have the overflow tube take a 90 degree turn up for 2" to the 6" mark on the pail. At that 6" point the overflow tube goes horizontal. After that you can continue horizontal, or whatever.

The point is that the overflow will still occur at 6", but the overflow hole is always underwater. You could also lower the 4" to 2" if you planned to run the unit close to dry on occasion.

 

[Citizen024]

Nice pics Silver! Just what I needed to show some other folks. Looking banging! What day/week are you in?