New 4 Plant Site RDWC system - Grape Gas

[SweetLeafGrow]

Getting started on a new and important grow, I just built a 4 site version of the single site RDWC system I have been cutting my teeth on and learning hydroponics. Stepping up my game and hoping to keep up with my medicinal needs so I don't have to buy from dispensaries anymore.

Running 4 clones of the strain Grape Gas from my bro over at Impulsive Gardens. Check him out if you are looking for elite clones, great brother to work with!

Particulars-
4 site RDWC system with external res outside of tent, ~ 28 gallons total volume of water
5x5 tent
Raging Kush II LED
GH Trio nutrients
Hydroguard bb's
Agsil 16 Potassium Silicate
pH Up and Down
Chiller, water temp set at 68F
HM-500 system monitor
misc fans

Based on experiments by @Moe.Red, I am going to get some Orca enzymes and add to this list soon.

So basically, I have the light all the way up to the top of the tent I believe @25%. I figured out how to do a sunrise/sunset recipe for veg, see app screenshot. This light is brand new and has it's own app that runs it. Wanting to learn how to use this cool feature of spectrum adjustments to steer the plants in a particular direction.

These clones are two sets of two. I originally got 2 Grape Gas and 2 Tropicana Cherry but the trip was very hard on the TC, the GG was fine. IG was quick to send me two more of the Grape Gas but they are a week behind the other two and been in the system since Friday. The other two were put in the system the previous Friday so exactly a week apart.

Photos for reference to see the environment in the new room.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

More photos-

 

[Moe.Red]

Nice documentation as usual.

Needs blue IMO. Left slider, up to 75. Tomorrow up to 100. You should see new growth start to pack nodes closer within days.

You want less vertical more horizontal at this stage to widen the canopy to fill your space.

Leave that far red knob at 0 for the same reason.

I'd wait on raising PPFD until you have good roots in the water on both sets of plants. So probably 2 days start bringing the lights closer. You are going to be running this at 12" above the canopy, so start bringing it down. These lights have lenses and they run differently than your other leds.

I'd also like 2 days to establish a baseline on these girls, there are a few issues I'm seeing. I'm assuming they are past that now and it was shipping / acclimation issues, but best not to drive them too hard until we are sure. On one of the first pics I saw either a photo artifact or you have a deficiency on new growth. New growth needs to be perfect.

The speed you drop the light is a gut thing. If you are not in a hurry a foot a day.

What is that dead experiment in the corner
Are you running cal-mag?
How much Agsil in 28 gals? PH stable?
Are you taking the conservative approach or you pushing these?
Can you post pics of the mom?

 

[Moe.Red]

This will be your first run with this light, I'll post some stuff you will want to read:

https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/resources/pdfs/fr-radiation.pdf

"In general, blue light enhances compactness and makes plants bushier. This is good because very tall, stretched plants cannot support large flower formations."

Spectrum Colors and Cannabis: What are the Effects of Each Light Color?

Different spectrum colors serve different purposes in the growth and development of the cannabis plant. Light, which is one of the most crucial factors in cannabis cultivation, comes in different …

www.valoya.com

The Effect of Light Spectrum on the Morphology and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L.

Cannabis sativa L. flowers are the main source of Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) used in medicine. One of the most important growth factors in cannabis cultivation is light; light quality, light intensity, and photoperiod play a big role in a successful growth protocol. The aim of the present...

www.karger.com

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thanks Moe, a lot to digest there.

First of all, I do think what you are seeing, unless I am missing something, are on the two in the front and are the newer clones. It was a bit moist in the container upon arrival and so not really newer growth up top yet, the damage took place in transit, mailed Monday afternoon and arrived here Friday morning around 11am.

These two went in the net pots Friday morning (also in a rapid rooter plug) and were showing roots Saturday morning, just barely but they both took off immediately. The two older ones also had some damaged leaves that I have not yet removed. Going to start some LST soon and I am going to just drill some small holes in the top lip of the bucket for tie down points.

Will get in the app and make your suggested changes and then watch and update as I see the nodal spacing getting closer. This is going to be great fun!

I'll start bringing the light down by 12" a day tomorrow morning and than duplicate that until I am at that 12" mark and keep it there as she grows.

Yes, I am using cal/mag out of a new bottle of GH Calimagic I just bought.

I initially used 2 ml per gallon of Agsil when I set up the res so that would be 56 ml, not nearly as much as the watered down stuff I have been buying. The res has trended down very slowly and so I let it get to about 5.5 and then about 12-15 ml gets the entire system back to about 5.8 and lasts for a few days before I have to add more, ph has been super stable.

Probably going conservative right now because of the two new clones but when they are ready, I'd like to see what this Ferrari can do, fosure.

I will try to get a photo of the mom.

The mess in the corner are the two Tropicana Cherry clones that I am trying to save in my cloner bucket. When I told IG about them, he immediately sent the two new Grape Gas to replace the TC and commented that the strain doesn't seem to travel well, at least in winter time. They were both in the same box, GG survived and TC might not. We will see.

Thanks for your help Moe. Gonna try to read those articles on spectrum you posted this evening.

 

[scabs&peanutbutter]

Getting started on a new and important grow, I just built a 4 site version of the single site RDWC system I have been cutting my teeth on and learning hydroponics. Stepping up my game and hoping to keep up with my medicinal needs so I don't have to buy from dispensaries anymore.

Running 4 clones of the strain Grape Gas from my bro over at Impulsive Gardens. Check him out if you are looking for elite clones, great brother to work with!

Particulars-
4 site RDWC system with external res outside of tent, ~ 28 gallons total volume of water
5x5 tent
Raging Kush II LED
GH Trio nutrients
Hydroguard bb's
Agsil 16 Potassium Silicate
pH Up and Down
Chiller, water temp set at 68F
HM-500 system monitor
misc fans

Based on experiments by @Moe.Red, I am going to get some Orca enzymes and add to this list soon.

So basically, I have the light all the way up to the top of the tent I believe @25%. I figured out how to do a sunrise/sunset recipe for veg, see app screenshot. This light is brand new and has it's own app that runs it. Wanting to learn how to use this cool feature of spectrum adjustments to steer the plants in a particular direction.

These clones are two sets of two. I originally got 2 Grape Gas and 2 Tropicana Cherry but the trip was very hard on the TC, the GG was fine. IG was quick to send me two more of the Grape Gas but they are a week behind the other two and been in the system since Friday. The other two were put in the system the previous Friday so exactly a week apart.

Photos for reference to see the environment in the new room.

good luck thanks for the peeks. I'll be watching this because I want to try RDWC

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

good luck thanks for the peeks. I'll be watching this because I want to try RDWC

Right on, you won't regret going hydro. I did OK in soil but on my 2nd RDWC grow I hit 17 oz on one plant. If you are looking for fast paced, high yields, you will love RDWC.

Here is a grow I have in progress, not a lot there because I just joined here but you get the picture. Will be ready to harvest in 4 weeks or less. This is in another system that is one plant in a 3x3, same system essentially, just smaller.

Greetings, New to ICMAG and Checking Ya'all Out

Greetings Fellow Cultivators, I found this forum and thought I would give it a go. Love to learn about this amazing plant and help others when I am able. I have been growing Cannabis for almost 2 years after I found out I have cancer. I chose not to go down the mainstream medical...

www.icmag.com

 

[Moe.Red]

First of all, I do think what you are seeing, unless I am missing something, are on the two in the front and are the newer clones. It was a bit moist in the container upon arrival and so not really newer growth up top yet, the damage took place in transit,

That is my take as well. It's my feeling that if your new growth is typical and roots are about doubling daily at this point, you are going to be fine. If new growth is not good, we need to drill down.

Will get in the app and make your suggested changes and then watch and update as I see the nodal spacing getting closer. This is going to be great fun!

I'll start bringing the light down by 12" a day tomorrow morning and than duplicate that until I am at that 12" mark and keep it there as she grows.

What we want to see right now is alternating nodes at most 2" apart, but closer at this stage would be better. Topping above the 4th node is a safe generalization. I think on the taller plants you might be there? If you are running lights 12" above the canopy, the canopy really needs to be flat to get the best penetration.

We need to see how the plant reacts with Blue, but we still have other spectrum tricks if the new growth does not become more horizontal. One thing at a time tho. And yes it is fun.

Yes, I am using cal/mag out of a new bottle of GH Calimagic I just bought.

I initially used 2 ml per gallon of Agsil when I set up the res so that would be 56 ml, not nearly as much as the watered down stuff I have been buying. The res has trended down very slowly and so I let it get to about 5.5 and then about 12-15 ml gets the entire system back to about 5.8 and lasts for a few days before I have to add more, ph has been super stable.

I'd say this is all spot on. I would stay at this level on both until flip.

Probably going conservative right now because of the two new clones but when they are ready, I'd like to see what this Ferrari can do, fosure.

I will try to get a photo of the mom.

The mess in the corner are the two Tropicana Cherry clones that I am trying to save in my cloner bucket. When I told IG about them, he immediately sent the two new Grape Gas to replace the TC and commented that the strain doesn't seem to travel well, at least in winter time. They were both in the same box, GG survived and TC might not. We will see.

Thanks for your help Moe. Gonna try to read those articles on spectrum you posted this evening.

I think we are saying the same thing, baby the clones until they are 100% solid, then push on the gas. You are looking for max yield as long as quality is high, correct? Are you planning to trellis or scrog?

Seeing the genetics in flower will give us an important data point. Is she tall or a bush? How large are the buds? How long? Answers will help decide the spectrum to apply, the PPFD, even the amount of silica in veg. It's just always good to have that info as you decide which parameters to push on.

If you have not already, get the failed clones out of the tent. They will only serve to be a home for pathogens and such at this point.

Other thoughts:

I owe you some twist locks. With those small netpots (good) when the roots develop they will be too large to pass thru the hole for the netpot, and you will not be able to remove the plants from the sites until you cut them down. Been there, done that. It's not too late to swap to the twistlocks if I get them to you soon. I'll try to get those all printed for you ASAP.

I've switched to coco/perlite on my RDWC with small netpots. I'm finding that the splashing wicks up and keeps the whole pot slightly damp - enough to sow seeds. It is also better at maintaining a bacterial / fungal colony, just need to make sure you have air movement at the stalk to prevent crown rot and similar issues. Just for future.

How are you topping off on this setup? RO or nute solution?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thanks again Moe for such a detailed lesson.

This morning everything is looking good, pH stable. roots doubling every day on the newer clones, neither is doing much up top yet and one is not has. healthy as the other but overall, I am pretty happy with the progress.

Yes, the nodal distances I am noticing are longer than I would like to see. I got called into work yesterday and didn't get home til late last night so I didn't get any thing done yesterday. I'm going to call the company and figure out this app thing here in a bit and then mess with that light a bit. Will report back when I get that figured out. I've also got to get in there and do some topping and LST on the two older ones. Yes, they are ready to be topped and I probably would have done that yesterday but yea....

As far as yield, you know my needs so yea, max yield but quality is also important. I had not thought as far as a scrog yet, lol. I'm realizing there are still a lot of things I need in triplicate since I added this new tent/light etc. now running three tents at the same time and that is taking some getting used to. The answer is yes, I do plan to scrog, not sure how else to do it.

I am also realizing there are going to be some challenges in getting to each plant to do maintenance and training since the 5x5 doe not have a back door access, just some flaps on the sides. Nothing like actually doing something to figure out all the things you need and even though I have done this twice now, I'm a total space cadet nowdays and forget shit so easy unless I have the opportunity for a lot of repetition to get it out of my short term memory and into the long.

I'm working on getting more info on the mother from IG. He might be stopping by this forum, he is not happy over there either.

I am curious as to why I would want to lift those plants out of the pots as you have suggested I be ready to do if needed. I really don't want to take up so much time on your printers bro (especially if it's not necessary) and thank you again so much for the coolness factor.

As far as topping off, the only way I have ever done it is with plain RO water. Then I look at the ppms after they settle down and add nutes to the res if needed. I have not had to amend like this very often and don't really have any rhyme or reason to it, mistake? I guess I sorta get in my mind the ppms that are working and then amend a gallon or two's worth when I see that ppm dropping too far out of that range I have in my mind but I have no idea, other than looking at the plants, whether or not I am doing the best thing at the time. I just have to do shit and see to learn this stuff is what I am gathering. Bouncing stuff off you and also you lending your eyes to help determine where I am is a great benefit and I thank you my bro. You have really accelerated my growing education

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I had a long chat with Eric over at Scynce and he helped me figure out the recipe. Turns out, I was using one I downloaded from them and they are all locked. I had to duplicate the recipe, delete the original, and then I was able to edit the copy and rename it. Got all the slider adjustments you recommended and dropped the light by about 14". Will continue dropping the light to get where I want to be over the course of the next few days.

Eric said 12" would be the max distance for this light and recommended 6"-10" for max potential.

I also cleaned up some of the damaged foliage and some lower branches on the two older clones and topped them both. You can tell I have not had the optimum because she is stretching to the light way too much. Will get this under control over the next few days and see how she responds.

 

[Moe.Red]

I had a long chat with Eric over at Scynce and he helped me figure out the recipe. Turns out, I was using one I downloaded from them and they are all locked. I had to duplicate the recipe, delete the original, and then I was able to edit the copy and rename it. Got all the slider adjustments you recommended and dropped the light by about 14". Will continue dropping the light to get where I want to be over the course of the next few days.

Eric said 12" would be the max distance for this light and recommended 6"-10" for max potential.

I also cleaned up some of the damaged foliage and some lower branches on the two older clones and topped them both. You can tell I have not had the optimum because she is stretching to the light way too much. Will get this under control over the next few days and see how she responds.

That’s great you spoke to scynce. I think they are a pretty solid company.

The reason for pulling plants out mid run is maint. I pull my plants out and put them on a 5 gallon pail while I work on them. I’ve shown you pictures of doing that. I turn them and move positions. I trim them on the bench. I find this much easier.

While they are out I inspect the roots and I put the new nutes in the pail along with another shot of bb and fungi along with hygrozyme. Then when I’m done working all the plants the pail gets dumped into the res.

I also like to be able to see the roots easily especially when I’m veg. I like to know if what I am doing is working.

My new twist locks have the lst system built in so you can take the plant out with training intact.

Working this way also allows you to get to the plants in the back. Before I started doin it this way the plants in the front were always the best. Since this is the first time for you with multiple plants in a single room this is the kind of stuff you need to plan for.

You will get it.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

The reason for pulling plants out mid run is maint. I pull my plants out and put them on a 5 gallon pail while I work on them. I’ve shown you pictures of doing that. I turn them and move positions. I trim them on the bench. I find this much easier.

Hell yea! What a great idea, I have been very concerned about this very thing. I assume that it wouldn't have to be done more than 3 or 4 times during veg and not really necessary in flower?

This whole system is borderline genius....dang bro, this is awesome! Yea, I do get it.....

 

[Moe.Red]

Hell yea! What a great idea, I have been very concerned about this very thing. I assume that it wouldn't have to be done more than 3 or 4 times during veg and not really necessary in flower?

This whole system is borderline genius....dang bro, this is awesome! Yea, I do get it.....

I got the 2 you asked me for ready. I’ll print 2 more sets this weekend for you. Care what color? I color code all mine to make it easier to keep track of what’s what in pictures later especially if I move them around.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Who doesn't like pretty colors? Your call bro.

Got something in the works gonna be headed your way soon.

 

[Moe.Red]

Whatcha got?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

If I told you it wouldn't be a surprise

 

[Smokedareefer]

Getting started on a new and important grow, I just built a 4 site version of the single site RDWC system I have been cutting my teeth on and learning hydroponics. Stepping up my game and hoping to keep up with my medicinal needs so I don't have to buy from dispensaries anymore.

Running 4 clones of the strain Grape Gas from my bro over at Impulsive Gardens. Check him out if you are looking for elite clones, great brother to work with!

Particulars-
4 site RDWC system with external res outside of tent, ~ 28 gallons total volume of water
5x5 tent
Raging Kush II LED
GH Trio nutrients
Hydroguard bb's
Agsil 16 Potassium Silicate
pH Up and Down
Chiller, water temp set at 68F
HM-500 system monitor
misc fans

Based on experiments by @Moe.Red, I am going to get some Orca enzymes and add to this list soon.

So basically, I have the light all the way up to the top of the tent I believe @25%. I figured out how to do a sunrise/sunset recipe for veg, see app screenshot. This light is brand new and has it's own app that runs it. Wanting to learn how to use this cool feature of spectrum adjustments to steer the plants in a particular direction.

These clones are two sets of two. I originally got 2 Grape Gas and 2 Tropicana Cherry but the trip was very hard on the TC, the GG was fine. IG was quick to send me two more of the Grape Gas but they are a week behind the other two and been in the system since Friday. The other two were put in the system the previous Friday so exactly a week apart.

Photos for reference to see the environment in the new room.

Have you ever thought about putting a "T" on each water fall pipe coming into each module?

Edit: i challenge you to keep your total ppms below 500 on the 500 scale.

Weve been using the 700 scale for 10 years and im not about to ask my wife to change her ways. The water that tops up my system continually consists of RO water and cal mag. 70 gal fill in the external res will get cal mag added 210 ml or 3ml to 1 gal ratio.

My last grow never got above 520 on the 700 scale and cal mag made up about one third of that 520 ppm

 

[Moe.Red]

Have you ever thought about putting a "T" on each water fall pipe coming into each module?

Edit: i challenge you to keep your total ppms below 500 on the 500 scale.

Weve been using the 700 scale for 10 years and im not about to ask my wife to change her ways. The water that tops up my system continually consists of RO water and cal mag. 70 gal fill in the external res will get cal mag added 210 ml or 3ml to 1 gal ratio.

My last grow never got above 520 on the 700 scale and cal mag made up about one third of that 520 ppm

I’m the same way bro. Less is more. My current grow is less than 500 on the 500 scale and I flipped a week ago. Plants look perfect.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thanks Smoke and Moe, yea, I guess I always knew it better to go lean but I guess my numbers are way off on what exactly is lean.

I have noticed that my RO tank has creeped up in ppms and it's super frustrating since construction is over and I don't know what is causing the ppms to rise like that. I checked a cup full yesterday and it was sitting at about 130....not sure if I need to do a prefilter or what. Our well water can come in at 800+. I tested the RO tank after it filled and I was very good at about 25 ppm or so but it seems to raise over time and it puzzles me.

So, question, by keeping that ppm around 500 on the 500 scale, do I factor in the starting ppm? So say my target with calmag and nutes is 500, do I add that on top of my starting ppm?

 

[Moe.Red]

Fix your RO and then don't worry about the starting PPM.

Can you take a reading of PPM directly out of the RO filter, before the tank. If it is not 20 or less there, it may be time to change the RO membrane (along with the other filters)

If the output of the filter is lower than the tank, you have some sort of contamination. Can you post a pic of the RO system and tank so I can give you potential problem areas?