Never sell urself short.

[Marijuanasaur]

My first experience with drug dogs rippin thru shit in my car was a pleasant one, since I'd watched all those videos about what to do and shit. He was like "Yo we got a dog on the way so just come clean,"

Fuck no! if I had come clean they'd know about my 2 separate one hitters that were in the car.

all they found was seeds and stems under my seat, which he then tried to scare me about, talking about how he could scrape it all up if he wanted to. there were 3 cops, and 2 were doin the good cop bad cop thing. but they let me off, cause even with these strict laws, they knew .4g of seeds and stems wasn't gonna build a case.

Essentially, i'm just saying, never sell yourself short, thats what they want.

 

[igrowone]

nice little post, but it's shows how to deal with LE
be firm but polite, know your rights and stick to them

 

[barth]

I know a guy in WI that did 9 months in county for .5 gram of stems and seeds. It was his 2nd drug offense. He could have done up to 3.5 years max.

The drug laws in WI are very harsh.

Here are the wi laws.
http://norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4573

Glad they let you go.

 

[]A[Boss]

so they did or didn't bring a dog? How did they find anything on you if you used all your rights?

 

[arrg]

best friend of my best friend did 2 years for a pound up there. WI=nazis.

 

[ninesix]

United States my ass, invisible borders in the same country can make the difference between 6 months and 3 years.

 

[foaf]

I think that it is important to do two things in that situation

1) Never give them permission to search. Why would you?
2) Give them a reason why you are saying "fuck no".

I was pulled over recently and had nothing in the car so it seemed like a good time to experiment. I had an expired license tag, I just hadnt screwed the new one on, and he checked online and confirmed this. Then he say's 'do you mind if I look through your trunk?"

I said (and I think this is a good reply for almost any situation like this) "Officer, with all due respect, I am a member of the libertarian party, and we stand for limiting governments interference in our private life. I would be doing my beliefs a disservice to just give up my constitional right to freedom from undue search and seizure if I allowed you to go into my private trunk.

He accepted that and let me go.

Just know, they have 15 minutes to either get a drug dog that can give them what they need to search you (probable cause). If they dont get the dog there in 15 minutes, you say, "officer, am I under arrest?" If they say no, then you say, "I have waited 15 minutes, am I free to go?" They are supposed to either arrest you or let you go. You dont have to wait any longer. (edit/add - as hole points out rudely, that number isnt magic, but they always have 15 minutes and after that time, it makes sense to ask them if you can go, and puts the burden on them to have an explanation for the delay. And if you dont ask, they can take all day to get the dogs)

 

[Happy Haole]

I think that it is important to do two things in that situation

1) Never give them permission to search. Why would you?
2) Give them a reason why you are saying "fuck no".

I was pulled over recently and had nothing in the car so it seemed like a good time to experiment. I had an expired license tag, I just hadnt screwed the new one on, and he checked online and confirmed this. Then he say's 'do you mind if I look through your trunk?"

I said (and I think this is a good reply for almost any situation like this) "Officer, with all due respect, I am a member of the libertarian party, and we stand for limiting governments interference in our private life. I would be doing my beliefs a disservice to just give up my constitional right to freedom from undue search and seizure if I allowed you to go into my private trunk.

He accepted that and let me go.

Just know, they have 15 minutes to either get a drug dog that can give them what they need to search you (probable cause). If they dont get the dog there in 15 minutes, you say, "officer, am I under arrest?" If they say no, then you say, "I have waited 15 minutes, am I free to go?" They are supposed to either arrest you or let you go. You dont have to wait any longer.

Yeah...go ahead and try that. I don't know where you get that 15min thing from. Maybe you pulled it out your ass... but there is no time limit on a traffic stop.

 

[Kalicokitty]

Yeah...go ahead and try that. I don't know where you get that 15min thing from. Maybe you pulled it out your ass... but there is no time limit on a traffic stop.

"Once you decide to detain the vehicle for a sniff, how long is constitutionally “reasonable” to wait for a drug detection dog? In Place, the Supreme Court rejected a ninety minute wait, although the court had other significant concerns about the method of detention. Courts routinely approve detentions of twenty to thirty minutes. However, in rural Utah, a drug detection dog is often not available within that time frame. Courts focus on more than just the time delay; the critical factor appears to be the officer’s diligence in getting a drug detection dog to the scene. In State v. Welch, the court considered a fifty minute delay from the time of the stop to the arrival of the dog. The court noted that the stop occurred thirty- one miles from where the nearest drug detection dog was stationed, and found that the delay was not unreasonable. In United States v. Hardy, the court explicitly ruled that the fifty minutes necessary to secure a drug detection dog was not unreasonable when the dog was stationed twenty-five miles away. The court also noted that it could not expect that the police would have a dog available at a shorter distance, given the rural area. Several courts have approved of detentions of up to ninety minutes, when the detention is supported by reasonable suspicion and the officer acts with due diligence to get the dog there as soon as practical. On to the Search"

Just a little excerpt from a huge, great article
http://policelink.monster.com/train...raffic-stop---basic-canine-search-and-seizure

 

[Kalicokitty]

Yeah...go ahead and try that. I don't know where you get that 15min thing from. Maybe you pulled it out your ass... but there is no time limit on a traffic stop.

And as far as time limits go on regular traffic stops


"Detention of the vehicle beyond this brief time needed to issue a citation or warning requires reasonable suspicion of illegal activity. “Once the driver has produced a valid license and proof that he is entitled to operate the car, he must be allowed to proceed on his way, without being subject to delay by police for further questioning.” United States v. Walker. “Any further detention for questioning [not for issuing a citation] is beyond the scope of the Terry stop and therefore is illegal unless the officer has a reasonable suspicion of unlawful activity.” United States v. Dewitt. From Free Time to Detention"

 

[foaf]

fuck off for the way you made your comment happy hole. You are right that there isnt a specific 15 minute time, although several court decisions have used that number, and they routinely find 30 minutes or so to be too long. In the case Kalicokitty mentions, the officer had "reasonable suspision", and that gives them longer to call the dogs. But reasonable suspision is not the same as probable cause, if it was, they wouldnt need the dogs at all. at 15 minutes you can start taking the officer to task about it and have a valid argument.

The officer has a "reasonable" amount of time to detain you without arrest, and in the absence of unusual circumstances that is usually determined to be 15 minutes. Another measure is "the usual amount of time needed to deal with the offense in question" like an expired license tag. 15 minutes is always reasonable, and over 15 minutes the officer has to provide a valid excuse, and it has been shown that the officer can't just say that the dog was on the other side of the county because the measure is related to the original reason that they pulled you over, not to officer convenience. That changes if they have "reasonable suspision".

More importantly, if you dont ask if you can go, they don't have to volunteer that information.


31 munutes is too long

Appellants further contend that the length of the detention, approximately thirty-one minutes between the issuance of the warning ticket and the arrival of the drug dog, was unreasonable. A dog sniff may be the product of an unconstitutional seizure if the traffic stop is unreasonably prolonged before the dog is employed. Caballes, 543 U.S. at 407-08, 125 S.Ct. 834

You have to ask if you can leave, they dont have to tell you.

Dewitt, 946 F.2d at 1502. The officer is not required to advise motorists that a traffic stop is over and that they are free to leave prior to requesting permission to search. Ohio v. RobinetteIn Ohio v. Robinette, 519 U.S. 33 (1996), the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Fourth Amendment does not require police officers to inform a motorist at the end of a traffic stop that he or she is free to go before seeking permission to search the motorist's car. 117 S. Ct. 417 (1996).

4 minutes is OK.

United States v Alexander (448 F. 3d 1014 (2006) Eighth Circuit
Dog sniffs that occur within a short time following the completion of a traffic stop are not constitutionally prohibited if they constitute only de minimis intrusions on the defendant’s Fourth Amendment rights. Even if lawfully initiated traffic stop terminated at the point at which trooper told defendant that he would receive only a warning, a subsequent conducted dog sniff was a de minimis intrusion on defendant’s Fourth Amendment rights. At most, defendant’s detention was extended some four minutes from the point at which he was notified that he would receive a warning ticket to the point at which the dog sniff was completed. Drug dog’s identification of drugs in defendant’s car provided probable cause that drugs were present, which entitled the officers to search the vehicle forthwith pursuant to the automobile exception to the warrant requirement.

 

[Happy Haole]

Nice. I like how you insult me and then agree I'm right. It's OK. I got thick skin and I love you anyway. LOL I was just making a point, not trying to argue. No worries...next time you get pulled, tell the cops they've kept you too long and you're leaving and see what happens. You quote a few cases and that's cool and all. The problem is out of 1000's of BS traffic stops only a handful of them ever make it to the level of those cases. Chances are, your local judge is gonna go with the local cop and you're the one holding the bag. I ain't saying it's right...it's completely wrong but that's the way it is. If you wanna fight johnny law go right ahead. You may be right but chances are with the way shit will be stacked against you, you're probably gonna lose anyway.Unless you're loaded...you're screwed.

All I'm saying is how many people you heard of been fucked over by the cops? Now how many have you heard coming out smiling and victorious? My point exactly...

 

[foaf]

yea sorry bout my reply too, but if you say "pulled it out your ass", that is obviously confrontational and short. You said that there isnt a time limit on traffic stops, that just isn't true. Granted, they have the gun and you don't, but you still have to assume that they know the rules and are going to play by them.

my initial point is something that a good lawyer will tell you if you ask them about this and that is - if after 15 minutes you are still waiting, you ask if you are free to go or if you are under arrest. They are obliged to give you an answer and an explanation, and in many cases are technically obliged to let you go.

 

[Marijuanasaur]

To answer the questions I didn't say fuck no to the cops, lol. I was actually nice and trying to be as personable as possible and succeeded to some degree, but it was mostly luck on my side. and yes, they did bring the dog, hence why my decline to their search did not work. The dog was on the scene in about 2 minutes, lmao. terrible.

 

[hkush]

I experiment with that every time I'm stopped. I never drive with anything I can't eat, and even that is rare. Once in a rare while I'll take one joint and smoke it in the car (tossing the roach) . They never take the bait. Someday they'll ask to search.