Neem as a Soil Conditioner

[Pantagruelion]

I dip my plants in Azamax. 1oz /gal. Every time I used it in my medium it wasn't good. I use rosemary oil for root drenching for fg and ra.

 

[Hmong]

i have never had plants stress due to using neem but i have stress caused by phyrethin. just keep in mind neem increases the efficiency of phyrethin so you need less for it to be effective.

yes thats true. I read that too.
So I was aware of that and always combined it when I used phyretrin. I used only 0,001% phyrethrine what I can remember.
No problems at all.

but with foilar it seems I allways have issues even if I just spray them with some algae product. yesterday I sprayed Biobizz Alga Mic at 2ml/l as recommended in intent to do ssemothing good and today some of them look worse than before. But on the other hand some were definetely much greener as like they should.
My humidifier went empty and temps went up. 27°C/33%
I see some with heavy rolling leaf margins and burned edges and tips like from a K Deficiency. I have no clue if its fom Nute (N) Burn, under fertilization, claucking from the foilar yesterday or draught symptoms, or not to forget the RAs? to much for me to guess atm.

neem cake is the best preventative i have ever used, add when potting plants and forget...top dress and a little around the drain holes...

this is exactly why I have ordered some allready. I have skipped transplant until it arives, which is hopefully before wednesday.

I plan to use some 11L Pots a friend gifted to me and transplant from the 3,5L.
normally I would not use pots this big with coco, because plants would get just too big^^
have never owned 7L so i just take whats here.
I try to create some smart pot like feature with air pruning at least on the bottom. I will just fill the pots with quartzous crushed stone up to the drain holes and then add a layer of diatomacous earth and neem cake. on top i put a mix of quartzum gravel & some little DE.
DE alone or too much would act like a sponge.
since RAs plaque me i try to avoid any moist surfaces or entry points like side drain holes. I drilled a lot of additional sized drain holes in some of my 3,5L and taped those on the side.
pots now try out faster but also have better drainage properties. I noticed it because when I did all the drenches i held them in hand, 45° when they drained out and it took nearly forever until the flow stopped completely. with the holes i dont net do hold them incline, I just grab them with both hands and do 3 up/down movements, dry - done.

So bevore transplant I try your drench method and then put them in their new cozy shoes. quite perfect so thank you for that

 

[ozzieAI]

My humidifier went empty and temps went up. 27°C/33%

thats funny to me...i get 37C and 86%humidity....gotta love the tropics...

 

[Monkdawg840]

Ozz I make my own amended mix as well in coco, so the mold is cool. It tells me it's a good way to colonize my mix quickly. And the added benefit of nutrition and a fungicide and pesticide. White mold is a healthy mold, brown, black or green and u have a problem where I'm from. Obviously during flowering though I'd avoid colonizing any mold near thesurface as well, or just cover it with rock, sand or hydroton if u do have to.

 

[Monkdawg840]

The benefits of this are huge. And all of these old clones I'm working with are really liking the neem. Our yields on the green crack and others are all going up it seems and the vigor seems to be showing in the old strains the most.

 

[Monkdawg840]

@ ozzie: thanks for the input. I only have my decent own experience with it. I guess there are many things I still make wrong. Of course Neem Foilar is good to prevent e.g PM but this should not be a problem indoors. I used 5ml/l + Emulsifier so this might just be to much Oil and causing the clauck I described.



interesting. do you also introduce a microheard than?
Fungual developement in coco after mixing it with organic matter is very common.
I saw this happen when no ACT was used to introduce aerobic bakteria.
I guess its something like white mold that will grow.


One question about the pest preventative soil drenches. how much Emulsion should I throw in a 3,5l coco/ pot? battling RA's the last weeks I always flushed the pods with a few liters of emulsion each or even dunked the whole Plant in a phyrethine+neem mix for up to 1hr. So I dont have any experience with some type of preventative soil application of Neem. my girls are recovering atm and I started to feed them again, so I am looking for a way to put neem into the pods without stressing them again or lets say have to skip feeding again. Can I just pour 1 cup of it into the crown once a week like I do it with ACT? would that be enough? there will be no runoff of course.

I just got em back to a healthy colour after 5 weeks of fight. RAs are still not a 100% eradicated since I did not dump all infested Plants. So a preventative Neem soil application until flip is what I am looking for asap.

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=258961&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

I hate em RAs, I have had them since I had started 1 year ago. My plants always looked like shit thus far and I just thought, I suck at growing. But since I discovered ICmag more and more issuses disappear, thank you all for that

Bro if u have root aphids I would snap new cuts and treat all old stuff with imid and dispose of them in the cold. I'd be careful of soil u buy, that's where they usually come in on. That's why I went to coco, fungus gnats and root aphids are like one in another too. They are always together. Get yellow traps as well. Then start with neem treating and cake application. I've learned to not mess around, if u have aphids imid is best. Spider mites, floramite is the a bomb. Pm or other molds, eagle 20. (It's really bad stuff dude) but systemic issues require systemic cures IMO. Or the worst of them all the russet mite, avid and neem together and they are dead. I normally would say don't use this shit but desperate times, desperate decisions and its a moral decision. Toss em and stay organic(which is impossible if I grow clones IMO) cuz someone treated them before. or treat em and keep em. But them I'd go on a neem testing program to ensure your safer the next time around so hopefully there is no next time.

 

[ozzieAI]

The benefits of this are huge. And all of these old clones I'm working with are really liking the neem. Our yields on the green crack and others are all going up it seems and the vigor seems to be showing in the old strains the most.

good you see you are enjoying the benefits of neem

 

[Hmong]

That's why I went to coco, fungus gnats and root aphids are like one in another too.

I can show you a Pic i took from RAs living in sealed coco bricks so thats no real safe option.
I also chose coco because I too though I would have no pests then.

Bro if u have root aphids I would snap new cuts and treat all old stuff with imid and dispose of them in the cold.

Bro I live in europe. Imid is banned here since 2013 for a reason.
And even if i would still get it anywhere I would never use It after what I researched.
Imid is definately a NO NO on stuff you plan to smoke.

I for sure know I won't get rid of them without a reset but my girls are doing fine again and I guess I have learned enough about RAs by fighting them, so I am totally aware of what I am doing. Just keep things under controll, safe all my lines (especially landraces) via seeds and then have a break during summer enjoying the fruit of my labor.

I am pretty sure that the neem cake in the new pots will be tha bomb. Everybody using it propperly has sucess so this is worth a try anyway.
I will also get some neem seed meal after i used the cake up. I believe its maybe even more effective because its the stuff where the oil gets extracted from. cake is just the leftovers.
Since I am also experiementing with organics atm to disloidge myself from bottles more and more, a product like cake or seed meal is just perfect. ATM I am like a little boy at christmas time, waiting for my neem cake to arrive and introduce it into battle asap.

 

[ozzieAI]

Imid is definately a NO NO on stuff you plan to smoke.

you don't need to use it if you apply pure neem oil to kill the RA...check the thread in my sig on how i beat RA

 

[Hmong]

finally I got my combat gear.

I am giving them the whole program.

12ml/L Neem+Emulsifier soil drench. let them soak for about 20mins in the runoff. then I washed them off with a 3ml/L emulsion. (pumpsprayer).
afterwards i transplanted them into to brand new smartpods with a coco + DE + Neem cake mix. 30ml/L DE & 10ml/L neem cake.
then i topdressed the medium with a mix of DE/sand/gravel.

I noticed at transplant, that RAs weren't all dead after the soak.
but I did not expect a 100% kill with neem. let's see how this is going to work out.

thank you ozzie for all the good input

 

[ozzieAI]

I did not expect a 100% kill with neem

neem isn't an instant knockdown, more of a complete...fuck you package...

list of affects
Disrupting or inhibiting the development of eggs, larvae or pupae.
Blocking the molting of larvae or nymphs
Disrupting mating and sexual communication
Repelling larvae and adults
Deterring females from laying eggs
Sterilizing adults
Poisoning larvae and adults
Deterring feeding
Blocking the ability to "swallow" (that is, reducing the motility of the gut)
Sending metamorphosis awry at various stages
Inhibiting the formation of chitin

good luck with it...interested to see how the gravel/sand mix goes for you...i have always been curious...

 

[Speed Racer]

I use neem seed meal(cake) in the very bottom of my pots with some cruched dunks too and no more pests in the bottom at all any more. Here is a pic

and good npk and think helps in the bloom stage for growth and pest control. Don't use in the top, just alot of crushed dunks around edge mostly. Neem on top if got bugs back, but not needed on top so far. Azamax in extreme cases, but only if necessary. I have a friend, same smoke and not near as potent, though outwardly looks good, not near as potent as mine and again same stuff. Neem could be helping, but think Azomite and some other things I use could be the difference though. He uses store bought liquids though and I use all organic dry ingredients though too. I recently pulled an ice from FS at 6 weeks cause I was low on smoke( no curing)and still better than his completely done ice. I like the neem meal and will continue to buy. Have the oil but rarely use.SR

 

[Hmong]

good luck with it...interested to see how the gravel/sand mix goes for you...i have always been curious...

haha I guess I know why^^
today i applied ACT to the organic pots, and noticed that the DE really holds much water, the drain was reeeeeally slow. I was aware after all what I read about DE so I brew enough tea in the first place. perhaps I remove the top layer bevore I apply real nutes again. I plan another drench next weekend like you suggested, so iafter at least 2 weeks we will see if this barrier had any effects.

 

[ozzieAI]

also i am finding harder to get neem cake and am about to run out so an looking at alternatives...sand and gravel i can get easily and it's nice and cheap...

 

[Abzon]

might try this

 

[who dat is]

Ozzie, I know I've ran this by you already but I was curious if anybody else in here might know of the effects of emulsified neem as a soil drench on your beneficials and mycorrhizal fungi? I'd love to be able to use this as an option but not at the expense of my beneficials.

Thanks

 

[ozzieAI]

I know I've ran this by you already but I was curious if anybody else in here might know of the effects of emulsified neem as a soil drench on your beneficials and mycorrhizal fungi?

i would be interested in knowing as well...

 

[Speed Racer]

I mixed in a little dry neem meal on top today for added N and its other benefits today. Only concern I had with adding on top is flavor. I heard "somewhere" that it can affect flavor? I haven't noticed in the bottom and used recently on top and seems to do very well and with added pest control. Still, could too much alter flavor? I mixed with some dry blood meal for a mixed N boost. I just eye the size of pot and plant and its wants and learning to just add by hand no measure per say. Used to do when cooking and can be done by feel just as good or better I think. Teas are very nice as ppm can be measured exactly too. I am definitely liking the neem meal and I have oil but so, oily, and messy and what exactly is added to emulsify? I don't want added emulsifiers unless organic anyway, but the oil may go further as is stronger. Not sure if it was the neem, but saw noticeable growth after 3-4 days using dry neem meal. I do water lightly first to saturate the top after adding dry and let sit a bit and then water the rest and think gets more in the soil initially. Read up on the interesting thread about top mulch and think I may just break up larger mulch into smaller pieces to try and keep the top more moist and with all natural neem for pest control. Sounds like a plan. Smokin, tokin, and thats no jokin. Ok lots of jokin. peace...

SR

 

[ozzieAI]

Still, could too much alter flavor?

i have never noticed any change in flavour whatsoever

I have oil but so, oily, and messy and what exactly is added to emulsify?

the neem oil i use has organic emulsifiers in it already, but others have mentioned using dish soap...

found this: Emulsifiers: These ingredients allow two substances that don't normally mix together (like oil and water) to combine and be held together. Look for organic emulsifiers such as:

Plants such as jojoba, candelilla,, carnauba, and rice bran.
Lecithin
Xanthum Gum
Quince Seed

here: http://www.green-organic-world.com/organic-ingredients.html

 

[Darkbluelight]

Thanks M8

Thanks M8

Thanks for all the work OzzieAI.

I've been checking your threads on Neem and find them most credible and will probably save me much concern on my first indoor grow - coming soon.

Best ...

thats funny to me...i get 37C and 86%humidity....gotta love the tropics...