Need your help...what's going on with these plants?

[FunkDoctor]

hello! what is happening to the buds in these pictures?

organic soil grow. promix, perlite, lime, peace of mind

fox farm nutrients used at lower recommended doses. 1-10-10 Jamaican bat guano teas after 25 days flowering along with small amounts of Meta K. Teas applied every watering (2-3 tbls per gallon water), with a plain watering every 5th watering or so. liquid karma and maxicrop used sparingly.

Molasses used around 5-6th week of flowering I think. I am thinking it made them use up a lot of nutrients and they yellowed (phos or potassium deficiency?)

temps fine, 80 max day, 58-60 lowest at night. 30-40% humidity. good circulation

Water from moist to dry, usually about every 4-5 days up til 6th week when more often.

 

[FunkDoctor]

sorry don't have a hang of this uploading images yet...

 

[FunkDoctor]

anyone have any idea?

 

[FunkDoctor]

damn seriously?

 

[Corpsey]

you should fill this out

ARE YOU USING?

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[FunkDoctor]

How long has this problem been going on? a few years, since been in new england

What STRAIN are you growing? multiple

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed

What is the age of your plants? in the pics, 5-6 weeks flowering I think, problem started around 5th week of flowering I believe and they yellowed quite a bit, but wasn't typical N yellowing IMO.

But I also noticed brown spots on the leaves and leaf tips curled a bit, which looks like over fert at time and under fert at others. Ph issues I am not aware of that looks like over fert? I think I can rule out Tiger Bloom because they are awesome really until 5 week when I have already switched over to Bat Guano teas (2-3 tablespoons per gallon water bubbled for 48 hours with small aquarium bubbler. I try to be aware of my soil getting too hot and water with plain occasionally

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? vegged 4-5 weeks in 1 gallon pots, transplated into 3 Gallon pots about a week BEFORE flowering

How Tall are the plants? they were about 2-3 feet, small this time, short veg period

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flowering

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) SOG

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 Gallon

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) Promix, Fox Farm Fruit and Flower, dolomite lime, enough perlite. stablized ph in soil
What Nutrient's are you using? Fox Farm, LK, Maxicrop, Bat Guano 1-10-10 and Meta K for last 4-5 weeks. Molasses used also at 5th and 6th week. seemed to make plants yellow/use too much nutrients, worked too good maybe

Soil is 3 Gallons of Promix to 1 tblspoon Fox Farm Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower, to 2 tablespoons of Botanica Soil Sweetner Dolomite Lime per 3 Gallons soil (not enough?)

The Fox Farm Peace of Mind added at 1tblspoon per 3 Gallons of soil is 4-8-4 Frust and Flower I think. should I be using 8-8-8 peace of mind All purpose? another kind of peace of Mind. is my soil mixture not enough. try to keep things simple and Peace of Mind is a pretty comphrensive soil additive from what I understand

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Half strength to slow build up of recommended full strength Fox Farm Tiger Bloom (1 teaspoon per Gallon? can't remember) for first 25 days with LK and Maxicrop added at 1/2 teaspon and Maxi at 1 tblespoon.

for last 5 weeks of flowering: tea of only 3 tbls Bat guano per gallon of water bubbled for 48 hours. Liquid Karma added at about 1 teaspoon, Maxi Crop 1 tblespoon and Meta K for potassium at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. So tea equals = gallon of water, 3 tblspoons guano, 1/2 teaspoon Meta K, 1 teaspoon LK and 1 tblespoon Maxi crop

How often are you feeding? 3 waterings of Fox Farm Tiger Bloom over 25 day beginning flower period. Then a plain watering at day 25 flowering in case soil was running hot.

After 25 days switched to Guano Tea 1-10-10. As far as watering in flowering after day 25 it was every watering about every 4-6 days apart each. one plain water every 4-5 feedings. around 8 weeks of flowering was watering about every 3-4 days. very healthy root system at harvest, so don't think it was over or underwatering

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 10 days into flowering went from FF Grow Big to FF Tiger Bloon, wanted to make sure they had enough N for growth spurt first 2 weeks of flowering...I usually do FF Big Bloom on first watering after light switch to flowering

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) Fox Farm, shake, then LK, shake, then Maxicrop, shake. Molasses sometimes added last to mix. Molasses was used 3 times throughout grow 5th week, 6th week and 7th week. Botanica Clearex was used once, which seemed to cause a huge growth spurt followed by yellowing. maybe too much chelating? seemed like couldn't get enough P or K or some nutrient after that. However, I have seen this problem in the past when no Clearex is used. I am aware Clearex is not needed with organics/soil, but I am huge believer in its power in adding yield and making sure plant gets everything out of it's nutrients stored in the plant so you don't end up smoking. seems to give REALLY clean smoke with a bright white fine ash after smoking instead of dark grey and chunky

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? was not aware this was an issue with soil if soil or nutrient mixture wasn't hot or too much. have never monitored in past. enlighten me! necessary with soil? the best soil grower I know monitors none of these at all....

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.8-7ish. dolomite lime seems to neutralize pretty well. 2 tblspoons to 3 gallons of Pro Mix enough if Peace of Mind added? do I need more Lime?

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Oakton pen for solution and testing run off. It broke had to us GH ph test kit and strips, which seemed to be on point actually when compared next to pen when it was working.

How often are you watering? about once every 4-5 days around 35th day of flowering. from moist, not saturated, to fairly dry. probably a 3 iout of 10 as far as dryness throughout the container when I water again. that is if I had to rank it on a number scale. make any sense?

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? every feeding/watering, with a plain watering every 4-5 waterings. I do not allow run off!!!!! Promix holds too much water to allow run off. if I were to water that heavy to have run off in Promix, it would certainly water log them. instead I take the approach of uses ferts in small amounts. maybe not enough in this case! or maybe too many guano teas?! fuckin stumped here!

What size bulb are you using? 1000hps

What is the distance to the canopy? 2.5-3 ft

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 30%

What is the canopy temperature? 80%

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 78-80 in day max, 58-60 night lowest

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) large open room in basement with multiple fans and high cfm exhausting air through Can filter. CO2 is not an issue. they are not getting huge amounts of it, but their is good air movement in and out

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? exhaust outake with high cfm fan that draws in fresh air from other part of house. On Timer for an hour and off for an hour when light is on. is on and comes on 3 times when lights off. Could the hour it is OFF affect the heat/temps around the top of canopy when exhaust is on an off cycle? doesn't seem too as temp doesn't change at canopy...I have monitored

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? YES sometimes across the tops of canopies, I was told they like the stimulation of blowing in wind a little

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? no I let it dry out pretty well. my root system was thick, bright white and spagetti noodles at bottom when finished

Is your water HARD or SOFT? I believe my problem could possibly lay here. It is hard I believe, I think this problem may have to do with water...who knows. have seemed to rule out everything but it seems everywhere in VT/NH region any buds grown here have a funkiness to them, without full crystals, taste, or high. I have no idea what it is. this has been noticed by many including myself around here

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? I am using TAP

Are you using water from a water softener? No. Is this recommended? have never had problems with water in past at all

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? No

Are plant's infected with pest's? No

 

[FunkDoctor]

here are a few more pictures...hopefully someone can get an idea of what is going on. If you can solve it, I will forever be in debt to the person! seems to be a problem a lot of people have in the VT/MA/NH area, but not all, seems to be concentrated in one region.

I think water may have something to do with it. its very hard. although I have seen this problem not happen at all one time but the plants seemed over juiced. maybe my problem is underfertilizing??? is the picture of the leaf below possibly P or K deficiency?

any help, suggestions or even guesses is appeciated! thanks

 

[Corpsey]

I am no way experienced enough to figure all of this out b/c i dont really know promix that well, and i dont know about switching to teas after using FF nutes.
But i see a few things that you may want to take a closer look at and maybe someone else can jump in here and just understand it.
is one plain watering for every 4-5 feeding enough?
in week 5 are switching to teas+meta k/LK/maxi crop from FF nutes having any effect?
would you know if you were overdoing it or underdoing it if you had an ec meter to test runoff?
what is the PH recommended for Pro Mix? i thought it was soilless? 6.8-7 runoff maybe too high?
Maybe a PH pen would be beneficial.
and finally, what is the PH of your tap water, maybe you might be better off buying R/O water from the machine at the store, or investing in a R/O unit, but then you have to be able to add the trace elements it doesnt have.

 

[Corpsey]

Ohh, and i thought i read somewhere something about dolomite lime in promix, i would look into that too. i know for soil its 1-2 tbsp per gallon. but it might have an ill effect on promix after awhile of being in there?

 

[FunkDoctor]

thanks for the replies yourcorpse

anyone else? what kind of deficiency?

 

[Corpsey]

i saw this just now too, would be good info for you to read :
http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=121511

 

[FunkDoctor]

thanks, I will check that out

is there anyone that can pinpoint what might be going on? frustrating

I am thinking it's either the water (will hard water do that?)

or

my nutrient schedule. underfert? maybe potassium or phosphorus deficiency as it happens around 5th week of flowering

do you think Fox Farm at half strength every watering a long with Lkarma and Maxicrop for flowering is too much? what about using a 3 tblespoon per gallon bat guano mix once every 5 days to water/feed? too much tea?

the plants seem to show defiencies. have to rule out PH as promix already has limestone added plus I add about 2.5 tablespoons per 3 gallons of soil a long with Peace of Mind Fox farm soil amendments (mix of all kinds of organic goodness)

thoughts?

 

[FunkDoctor]

seriously no one has any idea?

1) I am using 3 gallons of Promix, 1 part Perlite, and then 2.5 tablespoons Dolomite lime and 3 tablespoons Fox Farm Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower

Is there anything wrong with this soil mixture? Too hot?

Should I be adding more Lime then just 2 tablespoons per 3 gallons of soil?

Also, how often should I supplement Cal/Mag? I have a bottle of it. Would just using it a few times throughout flowering be enough or should I use it every watering?

2) Is the following nutrient solution ok for flowering with EVERY watering?

-3 tablespoons Jamaican Guano 1-1-10 per gallon of water along with 1/2 teaspoon Meta K, Maxicrop and Liquid Karma

too much to be using with every watering if I am watering in soil once every 4-5 days?

can you over do it with guanos or can too much guano mess up your PH, drive it down even if soil is fortified with dolomite lime?

thanks for the help

 

[FunkDoctor]

more info, would greatly appreciate some opinions. thanks

I am using tap water. I am pretty sure it's a little hard, that's why I didn't use the Cal/Mag a lot. I see Red Buildup on my sinks and toilets which I think is Cal and blue spots on sinks are Mag?

I do use a Oakton PH pen till it crapped out. But I thought with organics PH didn't really matter if you had enough Lime in the soil to act as a buffer??? always seemed smart to PH balance my nutrient solution so I always did just in case after the pen broke anyway

Is 2 tablespoons Lime per 3 gallons of Promix sufficient? Is one Tablespoon Fox Farm Peace of Mind Fruit and Flower too much per 1 gallon soil?

as far as the soil...no additives in veg at all...promix and perlite which is 6.4

I transplant into 3 gallon containers about 1 week before flowering, then flower. The mixture I transplant them for flowering per 3 gallons of Pro Mix is: 1 part Perlite, 2 tablespoons dolomite lime, 3 tablespoons Fox Farm Peace of Mind

Does that sound like too hot of a mixture? Love the Peace of Mind though, usually keeps my plants nice and green

I am thinking this could have to do with adding Clearex about 6 weeks into flowering. It is just a sugar solution that unlocks nutrients. I honestly SWEAR by it at harvest/flush time. I think using it too early may have been bad.

Clearex has huge chelating properties from what I understand and makes plants used stored nutrients very fast and unlock other nutrients that were not available previously. Maybe that's why they suggest flushing Clearex after a day or two, because it chelates too many nutrients and makes your plants suck up huge amounts of nutrients and eventually drains the plants/soil of nuts?

As far as feeding schedule, I would give them juice at every watering with tiger bloom then bat guano teas, both at small doses.

Can you use guano teas too much? Someone above mentioned they send your PH of your soil down which is interesting. Could have something to do with it, but I thought Dolomite Lime in soil would prevent this...would that be fair to say?

Is 3 Tablespoons Guano, 1/4 teaspoon Meta-K, 1 tablespoon Maxicrop and 1 teaspoon Liquid Karma too much for a nutrient solution everytime? I do not test my PPM. Do I have to worry about it for this mixture? or is it more for PPM in the tap water?

I think I only did plain water once in veg and 2-3 times in flowering. With that said, I use fairly weak solutions with Tiger Bloom and then Guano tea.

Is using a guano tea every watering too much? I don't have to water/give nutrient that ofter in a 70 day flower cyle if I am watering everyday 4-6 days (waterings wet to dry, takes a while for 3 gallons to dry out completely towards inside of pots) so for that reason, I give nutrients at small doses almost every watering

Also, I don't really have run off until last weeks of flowering. But I thought as long as soil doesn't get too hot, that this is ok. Impossible to have run off with Promix in early stages without water logging and stressing the shit of the plants at least one or two time. Promix holds a shit ton of water. Water too heavy, early, and you will drowned your roots in Promix

Sorry for long winded response, but would appreciate ANY help with what might be going on. I think it's either hard water, Cal/Mag def or P or K def

 

[FunkDoctor]

gonna bump this back up if that's cool

would really like some insight...even if it's speculation

this deficiency also seems to be affecting end product. buds seem to red/ripen early when they shouldnt be. resin production is slowed. taste is excellent at first, but lost as cured (should be opposite!) high is incomplete, great up high, but no body or devastation at all (great day time high!)

I can't figure out what it is for the life of me. I am thinking either Calcium of Phorsphorus defiency.

is 2.5 tablespoons lime enough per 5 gallons of Promix with FF Peace of Mind ammeded to mix? maybe my PH is drifting down and calcium/phos/other nutrients out of wack?

anyone have good or bad experiences of info about Promix as a soil?

 

[FunkDoctor]

also, is 3 tablespoon per gallon along with LK and Maxicrop per Gallon of water too much every watering ever 5-6 days?

have seen some people use as little as 3 tsp, but other that swear the more the better

Question: could 3 applications of Tiger Bloom and 2 applications of Bat Guano teas 3 tablespoons driven my soil's PH down that dramatically?

even if I added ONLY approx. 2 tablespoons per 3 Gallons of Promix/Peace of Mind mixture.

not enough lime = PH drift in the soil mixture mentioned above???? or am I overanalyzing it

ANY help at taking a stab at ANY of these questions would be appreciated

 

[FunkDoctor]

everyone stumped? help a brotha out

 

[WillyPhister]

Where does your tap water come from? Does it come from a well or is it municipal city water? If its city water then there can be a lot of nasty crap in it besides chlorine. The yellowing and necrosis on your plants could be from sodium fluoride in your tap water (if its city water). Sodium Fluoride is toxic to plants and people. Maybe call your water supply people and ask them how much fluoride (ppm) they use to supplement the water. It doesn't matter if fluoride is the problem or not you really should start using distilled or RO water especially if you think the funky water is the reason why you and every other grower in your area using the tap water is growing sub par buds. When using distilled and RO water you have the advantage of starting with a clean slate and knowing exactly what is and isn't in your water.