NEED YOUR HELP! - best configuration for crawlspace?

[crash_munchie]

hi gang,

okayyy...soo..first time caller, long time listner..haha...
got a bit of a challenge for those engineering and creative types out there in the community...
I've never had to contemplate this kind of set up before, so i'm looking to you guys for any tried and true recommendations as to the possibility of a stealth grow room in this situation. any links to similar set ups or pics also helps!

here's what i know by quick survey:

-the space is an indoor crawlspace...crawlspace is at the actual ground level (below a raised living room floor, not buried or anything like that...it's the kind of place you store your skiis and christmas trees and rubbermaids full of old VCR porn and shit...haha, kidding)

-the floor is concrete, walls are concrete brick. the area appears dry (since it is actually inside the house, right...) and free of any evidence of mold/mildew, etc. there's a lightbulb fixture on your way in, so it is intended to be used as storage (as opposed to a dank-ass dark moldy mouse filled pit)

-the height of the room from floor to underside of the living room floor is just over 4ft...(ugh)...and so of course the "ceiling of the room has the usual support joists, too...i mention this in regards to plant strain type selection (advice on this too, would be great..i've heard hash plant, dynamite, asshole, could work)...but also for lighting...as i was thinking some vented tempered hoods *could* get kinda positioned/wedged between the joists..so as to allow for more plant height..but obviosly not much..every inch counts thought!

-the width/ length are approx 21 feet x 21 feet. since it's square, i can see possibly sectioning off parts to make other smaller rooms...by throwing up mylar or something..so get creative with that if you need to...i would be open to scrogs or small cabs that can go in there...lights on tracks that attach and roll along the existing joists or something...ideas! throw em my way! please!

- i do see the ability to slice into existing dryer exhaust 4' flexible exhaust (most likely) to vent to the outside (behind the house), but i'd be a fool not to use a scrubber in this situation, so that will be needed so account for that, and a vortex or something. i think it's fairly cool down there, not hot and sweaty either...temps seem ok...so depending on what gets picked for lights will definately make a difference. i'm also thinking CO2 is a wise idea on a few levels...

-i don't know enough about wiring/electricity to be totaly tampering with any existing wiring down there hid away in the dark, so assume i will have to go "plug and play" style for the most part. i am open to sacrifices if it means i can still get something going. the entire space doesnt have to be used either, i'm ok with say 25 plants. (medicinaly legal, but i still prefer rule #1 and some stealth and privacy. because you just never know.)

- so far it's been suggested i do a shitload of cfl's and keep the power down and grow lateral.... if there's a better way to light it, i'm open to other hps and mh combo suggestions. when i get more private access to the space, maybe i can post some pics..but i'll definately get in there with some good lighting and clean the shit out of it.

-i can always do something like paint the floor white and hang mylar like i said...which let me to the thought...and forgive my ignorance if this is a STUPID question...but is it possible to set up lights on their sides? i was thinking one light per wall or corner aiming in at the center of the square? (250?400?600?1000? help)
maybe a kind of...round grow...in the center of the square, bunch of lights and fans and exhaust tubes surrounding it...? would that even work? suspend fluoros (cooler) above the plants in the middle? and as the garden grows just expand the circle of hardwear outwards? don't forget, i have not much height to work with, and would have to pinch/FIM anyways most likely (chime in with strain suggestions--short squat indica i surmise) and keep things around or under 3 ft or so...so wouldnt the plants actually stretch towards the lights on their sides...basically bushing the plant out sideways more than up?

- alternately, if there's a kick as LOW HEIGHT method of aeroponic or hydroponic system that would work, i'd prefer that. i reckon the things i got going for me are that it's basically clean (though cob-webby right now...dustbuster here i come), stealth (entrance through small door at back of shoe/coat closet), can get some power, floor is cement (cool temp, and not dirt or wood), has exhaust, plenty of "width" space (bummer on height), and i'm really hoping that when i get in there for a more formal look around (only had the light of my phone at inspection), i'll maybe find other areas for exhaust or passive intake or electric... *fingers crossed)

and so there ya have it...hopefully you guys can picture this place in your heads and help me out with a set up if it's possible....i'm open and welcome to all viable ideas. power usage is of some concern, i know i can't reasonably run up the hydro bill by powering a half dozen 1000s or some shit, i'm betting a couple 600's or 400's could get me by if i had to, with separate sections for vegging/cuttings/clones/seeds done with good fluoros (any suggestions?)

THANK YOU, ICMAG COMMUNITY IN ADVANCE!!!!! If I can get something good rigged up, maybe i'll photo journal the whole thing on here. or at least the end results.

I await your suggestions, kind people!
Regards,
C_M
(formerly CC, RIU, thcF, etc.)

 

[Jnugg]

Is this a first time grow?

wow 21' x 21' that's 441 sq/feet!

If it'sa first time I'd say get a 400w HID and section off an area that is 2.5' x 2' or 3' x 3'
that would give you roughly 10,000 lumens per sq/foot in a 2.5' x 2' area or 5555 lumens per sq/foot in a 3' x 3'.

What are the temps in the crawlspace?

Will you be bringing in fresh/cool air from the house and into the grow sapce within the crawlspace?

Where exactly do you plan on exhuasting the hot smelly air?

For first grow what I wrote above is perfect...if you have some skill and experience I'd go bigger....maybe a 600w HID flowering room that measures 3' x 3' or 4' x 4' and a smaller room (about 1/3-1/2 the size of the bloom room) with a 250w-400w HID for vegging plants,mothers,and clones/cuttings.....then you could get on a perpetual grow!Or you could do a 4' x 4' bloom room with 1000-1200w HID and a smaller veg/clone/mom room with a 400w HID,but you'll want some serious fan power for all that (4" to 6" inline centrifugal for the veg/clone/mom room and atleast a 6" to 8" inline centrifugal for the bloom room.

Depending on the temps you might get away with a 4" 172cfm inline centrifugal exhuast fan but you may want to just get a 6" 449cfm inline centrifugal exhuast fan as that would handle a carbon filter better while still cooling the lights/grow room and supply fresh air to the grow room.Use passive intakes for a negative pressure environment.ie; no stinkies escaping the room.

Once you tell me what the temps in the house and the crawlspace are I can help you more.


What exactly are you wanting to do here,you need to narrow it down some.

 

[ddrew]

4ft is enough for a vertical I would think, one naked bulb hanging down with several plants in a circle around it and a fan in the center under the bulb blowing up, could do a few of those, not sure if that would work in that space, but maybe, just off the top of my head.

 

[Lord Doobie]

Welcome aboard.

It sounds perfect but I think you first need to tell us what your plans are. You seem all over the place and very excited.

What's the background of this house? Owner? Rental? Who's living there? Is there a door? Can you lock it descreetly? Will any curious kids be around? They love places like this...

On the surface, I'd probably section 1/4 to 1/2 of it off and start small...especially if the grow is just for yourself. This way it's easier to control lighting and odor. Never heard of painting the floor...probably a waste...but paint the ceiling and walls. What's the ceiling made out of? You'll be able to expand if needed later.

 

[crash_munchie]

Is this a first time grow?

no, not really...i kinda learned the hard way. jump back to my first posts ever on CC forums under the same handle to read more, lol. i traded around for some seeds and one day got bored and figured i could maybe pull it off in my double-doored closet in my bedroom...much to the chagrin of my college roomates at the time who i thought didn't know better. at some point in veg stage, i decided i better figgure something else out after they nonchalantly announced one day "oh by the way...your plants are starting to smell..." ... turns out the female roomy had a brother who had a few lights going himself... ..so at least i escaped the morality police on that one. had a cop come around in the middle of the day one time when i was on exams (on an unrelated issue), and did the snif test once he stepped into the place and on that one, i missed the real police.

so from the first experience, i learned about basics like stealth, smell, ambient temperatures, humidity, lighting, reflection, grow medium, nutes, lumens, pH, sexing, and so on. i also read cervantes' book. from there i made a stealthcab and moved a few of the female plants into it, and resituated it down in a cool dark storage garage with tons of camping shit piled on it (hey it worked). since it was somewhat private, i could pull it off if it ran at night on 12/12. from here i learned about fans and carbon filters, and watering cycles and nute deficiencies (still practicing that one), etc. i also learned that growing pot was as addictive and fun as smoking pot. i was glad to be one of the few with the balls to give growing a go.
i was able to finish the grow, but not as i'd liked...during the last couple weeks i had to go away to Ontario (from BC) for 10-12 days i think it was...being that no one knew about the cab, i kinda had to let it go on autopilot....and let it run out the grow till i got back. so best thing after a "lesser of two evils" debate and some forum feedback...was to water the shit out of it right before i left (flush time, no nutes), reduce the lighting time, and hope for the best. the other option was to kill the lights, water, and walk away...but something in me thought i'd get mold given the dampness of the ambient room...so i decided it was better to risk burnt plants at the tops or whatever. kinda hard to tell how it MIGHT have turned out, since i didn't get to witness the crucial final stages...but i turned out not as all the other bud i've seen, but much less trichs and spindly as fuck. strangely, for the ugliest Charlie Brown Christmas Tree weed, it got me almost uncomfortably high. i found it had a heavy sedative indica medical quality to it. wasn't for me, though. but it was a good first go. i conquered a lot of challenges as they arose, so i learned a lot. i learned that necessity is the mother of invention.


wow 21' x 21' that's 441 sq/feet!

well, add the 4 ft height and it's a lot more...i was thinking about this in terms of volume for C02 distribution. i hear C02 is good to use especially if you have heat problems. either way, i'd like to use it for the yeild increase, though i never have, so it'll be a first. if anyone knows if this is worth while in a 21 x 21 x 4 room, let me know....also, how much would it cost???

If it'sa first time I'd say get a 400w HID and section off an area that is 2.5' x 2' or 3' x 3'
that would give you roughly 10,000 lumens per sq/foot in a 2.5' x 2' area or 5555 lumens per sq/foot in a 3' x 3'.

i think i still have a 400HPS ballast kicking around. and a 1000MH ballast. chucked the lights when i moved, time for new ones anyways.

What are the temps in the crawlspace?

good question....won't know till i get into the place and can set up a handy day/night thermometer i have that records the highs n lows. but the temp is "cool" as opposed to warm or cold or room temperature i'd say. i know this doesn't help much, but i'll know more later. it felt like a nice temp to grow plants in though, considering i'd use fans and tempered glass lights most likely. and also dont forget the space is really wide, so it'll take a while for temps to really climb if at all once i get the fans and exhaust going.

Will you be bringing in fresh/cool air from the house and into the grow sapce within the crawlspace?

this it totaly possible, yes. part of one wall of the room borders on an ajacent laundry room, that has openeings for some of the furnace and ducts, so passive intake is available. check.

Where exactly do you plan on exhuasting the hot smelly air?

carbon scrubber i have (small, so i will have to check the cf rating) with a fat exhaust and maybe some small inline fans for extra draw if i need it, to the outside via splicing into the dryer exhaust line in the laundry room. there may also be an option to vent out the chimney somehow, but i'll know more when i get a good look with some privacy and a flashlight... that would be cool!

For first grow what I wrote above is perfect...if you have some skill and experience I'd go bigger....maybe a 600w HID flowering room that measures 3' x 3' or 4' x 4' and a smaller room (about 1/3-1/2 the size of the bloom room) with a 250w-400w HID for vegging plants,mothers,and clones/cuttings.....then you could get on a perpetual grow!Or you could do a 4' x 4' bloom room with 1000-1200w HID and a smaller veg/clone/mom room with a 400w HID,but you'll want some serious fan power for all that (4" to 6" inline centrifugal for the veg/clone/mom room and atleast a 6" to 8" inline centrifugal for the bloom room.

that's what i'm talkin about. perpetual grow. i have some good fluoros now that i remember...also just thought of something...some stairs from inside the house come down to ground level at one part of the wall...so what i have if you are in the room, is a recessed part of the wall...perfect...i can glue up fluoros on the underside of the steps (3-4 of them) at different heights... i can start the young ones in the back and as they grow, move them forwart to the next light level until they are at the correct height to flower. sweet. i can also actually fashion a door over that part too if i really wanted to, leaving a hole for ventilation...almost set up a sort of "contingency mini-stealth clone/mom room" closed off to the bigger room...

Depending on the temps you might get away with a 4" 172cfm inline centrifugal exhuast fan but you may want to just get a 6" 449cfm inline centrifugal exhuast fan as that would handle a carbon filter better while still cooling the lights/grow room and supply fresh air to the grow room.Use passive intakes for a negative pressure environment.ie; no stinkies escaping the room.

i do believe i have the latter fans and filer, yes...good plan on the negative pressure. otherwise known as "delta-P".

Once you tell me what the temps in the house and the crawlspace are I can help you more.

if figgure if i was able to stabelize the temps inside a grow cab inside a room inside a house, i should be able to do just 2 of the three, the room inside the house, essentially. most temps are manageable by fans and exhaust, but i also think i have all that space going for me, plus the cool temps of the room (saw it twice, once at about 11 am and once at 6 pm, and didn't notice it hot at all. the floor and cement bricks are cool to the touch), not to mention i'd be running lights at night anyways...one thing i ponder is the ability of any smell to come up through the floor. i mean there's the thick floor wood, probably particle board, padding, carpet. if i run stellar fans 24/7 i don't think i'll have a problem. beats me though...

What exactly are you wanting to do here,you need to narrow it down some.

25 plants. ish.

 

[crash_munchie]

sorry guys, i'm rusty, i don't know how to quote and reply and all that.

ddrew, that's a good idea too, i've seen setups with height where an exhaust tube was placed above the dangling light... sucking the temp up and out...

 

[crash_munchie]

Welcome aboard.

It sounds perfect but I think you first need to tell us what your plans are. You seem all over the place and very excited.

lol. sorry. was over-medicated at the time. i have adult ADHD. for real.

What's the background of this house? Owner? Rental? Who's living there? Is there a door? Can you lock it descreetly? Will any curious kids be around? They love places like this...

the door is low-key. it's big and thin and almost with the wall and painted the same colour. it's inside a coat closet. easy to hang long coats and pile boxes in front of. personally, i'm going to go with open boxes of older running shoes and maybe even the kitty-litter box. you know...things that make you go "eww....". i'll know if i have my med licence to grow in a few days, so i may be able to do a lot of this on the legit. so although a bit visually curious, i'd still padlock the thing...which complys with some of the gov't expectations anyways. to anyone else other than nosey cops, it's where i keep my hunting shotguns...ahem...hence the lock. safety first!

On the surface, I'd probably section 1/4 to 1/2 of it off and start small...especially if the grow is just for yourself. This way it's easier to control lighting and odor. Never heard of painting the floor...probably a waste...but paint the ceiling and walls. What's the ceiling made out of? You'll be able to expand if needed later.

painting the floor white for reflection upwards to the underside of the lower buds is part of the reason i thought it might be a good idea. but maybe not. just a thought. bounce around those lumens! just saying. rather than lay any kind of mylar down. plus if it's thick it'd be kinda slippery. don't forget, i'd be down there on hands and knees EVERY TIME. I actually thought i'd get a mechanics thing with the wheels, or a skateboard, and zip around on my back DaVinci Cistine Chappel-style...especailly if it find it best to put the room as far BACK in the 21 ft as possible, and section off the FRONT part with mylar...hmm...that could work.... the "ceiling" is the underside of the living-room floor, so i guess wood and wood support joists, and some ductwork here n there.

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT AS WELL!!!!!!
keep it coming...