Need to Know

[Hydrosun]

"Don't take this as an insult but there isn't really any need for non-staff members to know why someone got the banstick other than curiosity. If we decide to ban someone it is always for a good reason and once someone has been banned the decision is final so questioning bans after the fact is basically just wasted energy"

MyAssIsGrass, 10/29/10
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This was the final post in a different thread, but is much more appropriate for this sub forum.

I would just like to open this topic up for analysis. The thought of secret tribunals, star chambers, closed trials, trials in absentia, and making people disappear is very common through out human history. However it is generally acknowledged that these practices of exercising power in secret are antithetical to a free and open society.

The thought that there are two classes of membership in this community is scary. Is there information that is so dangerous or important that it is on a need to know basis?

The reason populations have trials and executions in public is so that EVERYONE knows what the defendant is accused of, how society was aggrieved, and how society took its measure of justice.

I for one would like to know why people were banned in order that I not offend my community in the same way, and to assuage my concerns for the fallen community member.

This MJ world we live in is a very tough place at times. People fall off the map because of all kinds of pressures and I'd like to think that this place is a sanctuary for smokers and growers who have a very tough time forming meaningful community connections in person because of the illegal nature of our love.

For these and other reason I feel it is appropriate that community be informed when one of our own is culled from our ranks from within, as opposed to the more common reason, PIGS!

"If we decide to ban someone it is always for a good reason"

If so there is no reason to withhold explanation from the community, so that we may all learn.




PS. An honest attempt to learn, understand, and grow is never a waste of energy IMHO.

 

[MyAssIsGrass]

I was referring to this from the TOU

9. Banning: People who violate IC Magazine's forum guidelines are subject to banning. Once someone has been banned from the site, we do not allow complaints from other members about it. Once banned, we are done with that individual, and no amount of complaining from other members will help. We do not justify our bans to the general membership. Those who complain about a banishment, are subject to being banned themselves.

I never said we refuse to say why someone has been banned, just that we don't have to justify our actions whenever it happens. If mods ever have to justify a ban to anyone it would only be admin. If you want to learn from someone else's ban that is fair enough but basically, if you abide by the TOU you won't get banned. Also there are no public trials of members here, it is only mods/admin that decide who recieves a ban so to involve the entire forum in a person's banning is pretty unnecessary

For these and other reason I feel it is appropriate that community be informed when one of our own is culled from our ranks from within, as opposed to the more common reason, PIGS!

Often if someone is busted, they either delete their own account (make it 'Guest') or just leave and not log in. If we ever do put someone in coventry because they were busted we still remove questions about their whereabouts because in that kind of situation you need to be able to disappear quietly so as not to draw attention to the busted member

 

[Hydrosun]

Thank you for the response.

As you may have noticed I spend a lot of time here (maybe too much). I didn't mean to imply that banning should be a matter of majority vote or a public spectacle. I am trying to analogize to real world (non-online) settings.

Many of the banned members that I have seen over the last year or so went out publicly. They acted in a way that violated the TOU, were called out on it publicly (posts by other members), Mods responded publicly. And then instead of shaping up the member continued to troll, publicly. So when the BAN fell a few posts later, announced by the mod publicly, there was no great surprise.

It seems to me that this approach greatly reduces the inevitable posts of "Whatever happend to XXXXX" or "Why'd they ban XXXXX" It is just human nature and curiosity. A waste of energy perhaps, but I've seen it way too many times to think that those question will ever stop being asked. The truth is a lot of this community is stoned out of its mind while hanging on the mag, 90% of the time they can't be expected to remember the previous posts on the same page of a thread, let alone all the posts in a thread. Consequently stoners often ask questions that have been asked and answered.

On the issue of silent withdrawal by members facing PIGS, from what I've witnessed this community does a great job protecting and supporting each other at the greatest time of need. It is that type of loyalty and willingness to support and defend each other that guarantees the "What happened to XXXX" questions are as natural as smoking a bowl.

 

[JJScorpio]

The reason we don't give an explanation as each one would lead to an argument. Almost everyone banned has a friend or friends and they'd argue for the sake of arguing.

It's very seldom we ban on the first violation as we try and give people a break. Now, if someone's first three posts are rude and nasty, they're gone on principle alone...

Normally, people really have to push it to get banned. And most of the membership knows this. The ones that complain and start the conspiracy theories normally have an agenda. So I guess members just need to take our word that we're being diplomatic when we get rid of someone....

 

[Hydrosun]

The reason we don't give an explanation as each one would lead to an argument. Almost everyone banned has a friend or friends and they'd argue for the sake of arguing.

It's very seldom we ban on the first violation as we try and give people a break. Now, if someone's first three posts are rude and nasty, they're gone on principle alone...

Normally, people really have to push it to get banned. And most of the membership knows this. The ones that complain and start the conspiracy theories normally have an agenda. So I guess members just need to take our word that we're being diplomatic when we get rid of someone....

That is exactly what I have observed and I stated that most (if not all) of the time it is public and they don't take the warning. Also I've got to agree that most conspiracy theorists (on this site at least) have an alternate agenda.

I'd love it to be a peaceful troll free world, but I am happy to put up with the occasional troll in an open and stoned community. Because we all have a slip of the lip every now and again or forget our manners, but at heart 99.9% of the people here care about this plant and each other.