Need some legal advice please - Illiegal Search and Seizure

[XtraTerrestrial]

i got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt a while back. i pulled over on my own 'cause a cop was riding my ass all around town...so i wanted to give him hell about it. he saw me take my seatbelt off to reach into my back pocket in order to get my drivers license out when he approached my vehicle and asked for the usual crap, but he wrote me a ticket for not wearing it anyways.
so anyways i paid the damned thing later that week, and got a receipt.

fast forward to last weekend.
i drive by a convenient store parking lot full of cops, and 3 of them follow me and pull me over for supposedly not using a signal. and when i told them that i did and they saw me use it, they then claimed that i used it late.

so they arrest me on a warrant issued for not paying the seatbelt ticket i mentioned. and after they arrest me ofcourse they search my vehicle and find a VB style vaporizer and whip, and so i get charged with paraphenalia.

well, after i got out of jail, i showed the town mayer and the police chief the receipt of payment, and they have agreed to pay back the money for the bond, impound fees, and everything but the paraph. charge and the no signal ticket.

i even was able to convince them that the vaporizer was used for vaporizing asthma medication(i have athsma medication/inhaler prescriptions and a nebulizer) and got the unit back(!!!wow!!!), but they kept the whip becuause it just barely tested positive for marijuana.


sooo...
the reason i'm posting is to see if this was infact an illegal search and siezure since the warrant for my arrest was no good. should i be able to get out of these charges?
this happened in OK, btw.

if anyone knows a better place to ask, please let mee know.

thanks for any help.

 

[XtraTerrestrial]

it's such crap..they only claimed i didn't use a signal so they could pull me over, arrest me, and search my vehicle.
the chief of police knew the ticket was paid, because i spoke to him about it afterwards, but the payment never even made it to the court clerk..i've spoken with her already...they done this on purpose to try and catch me with shit in my vehicle i think.

 

[I.M. Boggled]

[Exclusionary rule's can vary greatly state to state...]
Your state's specific statues should be online somewhere...
Spend the dough and get an *intelligent attorney, he may be able to make it "go away" for ya.
[*They definitely don't all graduate at the top of their class, they'll charge just ya like they did though. ]

From Wikipedia:

Fruit of the poisonous tree
is an American legal term, used to describe evidence gathered with the aid of information obtained illegally.
The logic of the terminology is that if the source of the evidence (the "tree") is tainted, then anything gained from it (the "fruit") would be likewise.

Such evidence is not generally admissible in court.
For example, if a policeman conducts an unconstitutional search of a home, finds an address book, and uses that address book to locate a witness, the witness would not be allowed to testify because her testimony would be a "fruit" of the unconstitutional search.

The doctrine is an extension of the exclusionary rule, which, subject to some exceptions, prevents evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment from being admitted in a criminal trial.
Like the exclusionary rule, the fruit-of-the-poisonous-tree doctrine is intended to deter police from using illegal means to obtain evidence.

The doctrine is subject to three main exceptions.
The tainted evidence will be admissible if

(1) it was discovered in part as a result of an independent, untainted source;

(2) it would inevitably have been discovered despite the tainted source; or

(3) the chain of causation between the illegal action and the tainted evidence is too attenuated.

 

[suzycremecheese]

The right attorney can get you out of this. If the consequences of this charge are not serious though why waste your money. Pay the fine and from now on carry the reciepts for your payed tickets with your documents.

Good luck

 

[I.M. Boggled]

If it's a criminal charge, fight it...
If you got a spotless record, I'd definitely keep it that way if possible..
(see, lots of free advice and worth every penny.
if it's a civil offense, I suppose just pay the fine and right it off to experience. imho.

 

[Guest]

Your car isn't "pimped out" by any chance is it? Cuz cops love to pick on those

(By pimped out I mean big rims/loud system/loud exhaust/lowered)

 

[Liberty4All]

Search is illegal without probable cause

Search is illegal without probable cause

If this was in the US, the search was unconstitutional absent probable cause to arrest you. Once there's probable cause to arrest, the cops sometimes are permitted to search around the driver's compartment as a search incident to arrest or as an inventory search pursuant to lawful police department guidelines for searches, if the car was going to be lawfully impounded.

If the basis for stopping you solely was for an allegation of not paying a ticket that you actually paid, that strengthens your argument of an illegal stop. Moreover, it's questionable whether the cops had lawful authority to arrest even if they had probable cause to believe you had not paid the fine, seeing that it's just a fine. On the other hand, sadly, the Supreme Court a few years ago gave cops the green light to detain a person who's done nothing more serious than a non-jailable moving violation. Atwater v. City of Lago Vista, 532 U.S. 318 (2001) ( http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=532&page=318 )

Jon Katz (Appearing in courts throughout Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, DC)
Defending criminal suspects, the Constitution, and the underdog
AV-rated Top-rated by Washingtonian Magazine (2004)
MARKS & KATZ, LLC
Silver Spring, Maryland 20910
(301) 495-4300
http://www.markskatz.com/criminallawyers.htm
Disclaimer: The foregoing message constitutes opinion only, and not legal advice. My legal analyses only apply to the jurisdictions where I am licensed to practice law, which are MD, DC, and VA.

 

[Batman]

If y'all don't mind, I'll chime in.

I've seen this sort of thing many times before, and the first thing you have to do, is forget about the "law" and what's "legal" for a minute.
these cops obviously have a hard on for you for some reason, and cops who conduct themselves in this manner are tough to beat in court because they lie and manipulate the facts in their favor.
to win in court, regardless of your Lawyers skill, you must take your case(s) before a local judge, or a jury of local citizens.
But it's like gambling in a crooked casino bro~ the deck is stacked against you.

IM has provided good info about the "fruit of a poisonous tree doctrine", I had a nice sticky about this very topic on CW.

You have to remember however, the exclusionary rules only apply and only work with a level playing field.

What history do you have with this department that's causing them to target you in the manner(s) you've described?... don't say nothing, because like I've said, I've seen this a hundred times.

The best advice I can offer is that you move out of that town, really. Barring that, Suz has given you the better of the suggestions.

1st. Keep nothing incriminating in your vehicle, nothing.

2nd. Keep all receipts for paid tickets in your wallet.

3rd. fully and completely document every detail of every police encounter you have.
a tape recording device keep in your vehicle, not on your person, but in your
front passenger area, might not be a bad idea either.

4th. Find a capable Attorney, put him on a retainer, and explain to him why you're
retaining him. Explain the harassment that you're going through and the future
possibility that you will need him for criminal defense and civil rights violations
work in the future.

Knowing the history you have with local LEO would also help to determine your future course of action. PM me if you wish, I can give you some ideas.

For now however, clean out your vehicle better than you ever have in the past and keep it clean. obey all traffic laws (not that it really matters from the sounds of it). and keep all receipts on your person and make sure those receipts have a date stamp on them somewhere.

And send me a PM.

-bat

 

[Verite]

Imo it depends how bad you wish to get away with anything in the future without having to move out of state. I would chalk up getting back the vap unit as your one up. Push the issue and I pretty much guarantee that if you think they had nothing better to do than fuck with you before they will most certainly every chance thay get once you take them to court to fight for what amounts to a pipe charge and a signal violation. Even if you dont do anything sooner or later one of them is going to figure out what vap units are and look like and youre going to be back to the top of the shit list. In my experience the last place you want to be is at the top of any cops shit list.

 

[XtraTerrestrial]

well they dropped all charges! and i even got the vape back,, what a shocker.
thanks for all the hlep anyways..you guys are great

the reason they had it out for me is because i got away with assault and battery on a police officer a couple months back...even beat it in court. the cop was way in the wrong, and tried to jerk me out of the vehicle by my long hair, and started wailing away with his club, so i had no choice but to kick ass....anyways i sent the cop stumbling back to his car, and he was yelling that he was going to shoot me so ofcourse i got the hell out of there while the guy's bell was still rung and before another shithead cop showed up.

needless to say my luck has probably ran out for a while, so i won't be doing anything too risky in the near future.

seems like i'm being wathced over or something..i know it sounds crazy, but things have just had a strange way of working themselves out here lately.

 

[Verite]

Oh, I didnt realize you were already at the top of all their lists. If its any consolation I asked my ouji board about it and it told me to tell you to, " get trout, get trout! " Not sure what that means but hope it helps.

 

[XtraTerrestrial]

i have no idea what that means or if you're actually serious, but ok.
i know you can actually channel through an ouji board and such, but i'm not sure if you're actually serious...heh
anyways, thanks again eveyone

 

[Batman]

Xtra~
Dude, no wonder all the cops in the area have a raging hard on for you, day-um!

The only town that you ever want to punch a cop in, is the town that you're just passing through, never to return to.

Food for thought Xtra...... this isn't over, I hope you know that. The score will never be settled until you are either;

1) Doing hard time.
2) Gone from the area, long gone. As in, residing another State.
3) Dead.

I know what I'm talking about. The cops have a grudge against you, All of the cops.
You have already seen that they are willing to make up reasons for pulling you over, arresting you and otherwise justifying their actions.

Don't wait until they plant some big bad evidence on you or in your vehicle, or quietly place a small caliber handgun into the palm of your hand, while you're lying face down on the pavement with a few 9mm rounds inserted into your chest cavity.

Xtra, I'm actually sort of worried about you bro~ They've already shown that their not only capable of setting you up, but they're willing to do it. Please think about relocation.

Lets be careful out there..

 

[morgan420]

I believe the good faith exception would have saved the search from any motion to dismiss based on illegality. As long as there was no proof that the cops who pulled you over knew the warrant was erroneous, or that notice the fine had been paid was purposely withheld in order to cause a warrant for your arrest to issue, then the courts will not hold the arresting cops responsible. Same thing for a warrant that was based on insufficient evidence as long as the cops were otherwise entitled to rely on it. Courts will hold that the cops relied on the warrant in good faith and are not responsible for it being issued in error and the search will be upheld. Trust me, there are numerous loopholes to the probable cause requirement, e.g., inevitable discovery, exigent circumstances, automobile exception, search by private citizens, etc. Besides, most judges are so friggin worthless that they believe anything the cops say and will actively look for the slightest shred of evidence to cite in support of upholding a search. I see it all the time.

 

[XtraTerrestrial]

yeah, i totally understand your concerns, batman. and i had no choice but to defend myself and hit the cop back...but it's not like i expect the other cops around there to understand that.(that cop that i beat on doesn't work there anymore)
but anyways, i'm staying out of the town as much as possible. i don't live there, but i don't live out of state either.

 

[Batman]

I believe the good faith exception would have saved the search from any motion to dismiss based on illegality. As long as there was no proof that the cops who pulled you over knew the warrant was erroneous, or that notice the fine had been paid was purposely withheld in order to cause a warrant for your arrest to issue, then the courts will not hold the arresting cops responsible. Same thing for a warrant that was based on insufficient evidence as long as the cops were otherwise entitled to rely on it. Courts will hold that the cops relied on the warrant in good faith and are not responsible for it being issued in error and the search will be upheld. Trust me, there are numerous loopholes to the probable cause requirement, e.g., inevitable discovery, exigent circumstances, automobile exception, search by private citizens, etc. Besides, most judges are so friggin worthless that they believe anything the cops say and will actively look for the slightest shred of evidence to cite in support of upholding a search. I see it all the time.

I absolutely agree with much that Morgan has said here, however with this specific set of circumstances as described by Xtra, I think the legalities of their conduct is the least of his worries.....
He assaulted a cop, they all tend to take that seriously, and rarely forget things like that until the "score is settled" so to speak.

At least the reason for this thread being posted has been resolved, that's the good news. The bad news is that you've only succeeded in giving them yet more reason for screwing with you in the future.

How far will they go?..... that's the big question that I don''t think you really want the answer to bro~

 

[XtraTerrestrial]

i know, man...cops have killed people for a lot less around here.
i read you loud and clear