Need some Foolproof Cloning Advice..

[Skunkenstein]

Recently started a joint venture with another person..we crossed our old school strains together,and are now vegging the offspring. We are both primarily seed growers..our combined experience is pretty good. But we are both lacking in the cloning Dept.We are needing to go to the next level..Just took 20 cuttings the other night..did everything by the book.Sterile razor,Olivias Gel,Humidity dome and tray,125watt compact hydro-farms light. Dipped cuttings in gel,immediately,after cut.Placed in small solo cups,with moist soil..no nutes or hormones. All were placed in tray,leaves misted,dome misted. Made sure stems were in full contct with soil..no air pockets. Placed tray and dome on top of seedling heating mat coverd by a thin towel. Hung light about 4'' above the 6'' dome. About a half hour later,,all cuttings looked like they were trampled by a horse..just limp. It's been 2days,they are still very green,but they just look like death warmed over. The room they are in is climate controlled..about 76degrees.I know it takes several days to a week to form some roots...but is this normal.The plants the cuttings were taken from are all sexed,and very vigorous.They are under a400w superMetal Halide and are about 1week from being Flipped. Any advise or comments would be appreciated.

 

[Guest]

hey bud, what is your success rate till now!?! Be happy anything roots for ya

hey bud, what is your success rate till now!?! Be happy anything roots for ya

125watt compact hydro-farms light

Hung light about 4'' above the 6'' dome. About a half hour later,,all cuttings looked like they were trampled by a horse..just limp.

back the light up at least 12" away from plants tops.

Too bright a light will cause the plants to attempt to turn that light energy into chloraphyll via photosynthesis, when, what you are really supposed to be doing is starving the plant of all it's basic requirements for growth, so that it's in a sort of stasis to focus on root production.
The cutting begins to suck nutrients out of the leaves, in order to complete it's life-process,if too bright a light is introduced prior to noticing visible root 'bumps' or 'nubs' as some call them

once formed to 1/2" or so, you may feed a weak bloom fert (1/2-1/4 strength) if you see some deficiency...

the plant is only able to take up nutrients et al from the medium and pick up growth where it left off only post root bumps..give it a couple extra days of TLC after bumps and youll have adventitious roots to feed and be off on your merry-veggin-way

(1) 43Watt Spiral Compact is plenty over a 10x20 flat at 10-36" away from tops, in the same color (spectrum),
as the mother plants they were taken from were in.
ie: if the moms you cut from are under a halide, you want to use a cool white or 'full spectrum / daylight' CFL - similiarly if using an HPS for the moms, use warm white flourescents for the cuts, as to prevent shock

leaves misted

Don't do that.
......anymore..

only mist the walls and dome of the greenhouse ONLY.
DO NOT directly mist cuts
however, doing it once, initially, just the 1 time, as you put them down, is no problem.
no worries there, just dont continue to do it.

2 reasons
-chronically doing this (pun always intended) leads to infection
-water droplets magnify the light significantly

if you keep airflow up and the lights far enough away, youre in buisness.
even if you do get the cuts wet.

that be a veggin' light me boy! Your rooted cuts will love you for it save it for them.

take care

 

[Guest]

My fool proof way is a bubble cloner.
Easy to build and 99% success rate.

I use the 125cfl with a pro hood at 2 1/2 feet from clone tops.
When they root I drop it down to 8-12".

 

[Skunkenstein]

Ok so youre saying I;m 3x to close with the lights and 4x over powerd with 125watts.The moms are under 400w Super Metal halide.It just seems bizzar that cuttings taken from an intense halide environment to compact flouro would just totally freak out...Maybe they should have stayed with the moms???

 

[Alex-F]

Na they can't take that much light as they don't have roots yet to supply the tissue with what's needed :wink:

 

[Guest]

i edited my post a few minutes ago, just got back from making some coffee and hit the send button..go check er out

..and green thumbs from now on, k?

be well

 

[Guest]

400w Super Metal halide.It just seems bizzar that cuttings taken from an intense halide environment to compact flouro would just totally freak out..

it's not light intensity you want to match, it's color. (which isn't even a critical issue)
no matter the previous lamp you want to keep them in less than ideal light....IME, ambient room light works best, but some strains prefer an overhead light source for faster rooting.

hey im looking to buy a 400watt rig, if ya dont mind me asking,
WTF is a 'Super Metal Halide' ?

be well

 

[Skunkenstein]

Tkanks Salty,you're the Man....

Tkanks Salty,you're the Man....

That was what I needed to hear....Umm,supposedly this super M halide is the shit..Well at least thats what the guy at the shop told me..when I bought it..haha.He had so many brochures in my face..showing me lab analysis,,blah,blah,blah...I was like O.K., put it in the box.He said you can do the whole grow under it..So I guess I'll be the only dumbass in north america using it....Thanks everybody!!!

 

[Guest]

WTF is a 'Super Metal Halide' ?

be well

Spectrum enhanced...IE; SunMaster

 

[Guest]

too rich for my blood..

 

[Skunkenstein]

Out the door the whole set-up was 204 bucks..horizontal reflector,ballast,and 15ft.of extra cord.The best thing,is the really light weight reflector..very easy to move on pulley!!

 

[Guest]

aircooled?

sounds great.
if it's aircooled.

if it's adaptable to accept flanges, it's still a nice price ...
providing the lamp they supplied with it is a reputable brand name



be well

edit: check www.ebay.com for replacement hortilux lamps on the cheap - make sure you buy only brand new lamps made anywhere but china (save for EYE)

 

[On the Button]

I have tried a few cloning methods and found that water is the easiest, foolproof method.
Just take a cutting and place it in water. Bang roots in a week or two.
It is best to change the water every day or so but not needed.
I agree with the post above to keep the cuttings away from strong light, it makes the cutting strive for photosynthesis, which is not needed until roots form.
I have used this method, gone away for a week and came back with fully rooted healthy clones.
There is no hormones, no humidity domes, no misting, cheap lights(flouro is best).
Any one else there with similar success? (other than bubbler cloning)
Good luck

 

[Guest]

OTB, way to go on your cloning method, it's the very best IMVHO
great post

There is no hormones, no humidity domes, no misting, cheap lights(flouro is best).
Any one else there with similar success? (other than bubbler cloning)

this is my method of preference.
shame, i had my gallery wiped clean and lost all my pics that werent in threads.

i add a dash of h2o2 to my budvases or salt and pepper shakers.
this keeps pathogens at bay, temporarily, and makes it so that you dont have to disturb the cut as often.

they like to be left alone.

use a ratio of 1 part h2o2, to 10-20 parts plain water.
this will buy you at least an extra day or two before water goes stagnant.


dark containers/glasses are best but any will work given enough time.

pH is not an issue until roots form to be effected by pH issues
in the same light, the quality of the water is a non-issue, any will work.
IME, tap is bestno evap neccesary, and will actually work out to your favor to not let it 'sit out'

tip:
when filling your vessels for plain water cloning, a fine screened faucet on high pressure=super oxygenated water that fizzes like half-flat soda due to all the gas being blasted in...yeah, it makes a mess the first few times ya do it, but after a few of them, the rest of the lot will be easy..keep a towel nearby.

mass cloners are easy to make.
caprichoso has a thread here on cloning in water where he did a piece of styrofoam cut to fit snug in a cooking pot filled with nothing but water, and all rooted well...this goes to show that water cloning (with no airstones) WORKS, even for the commercial grower or advanced enthusiast...providing you swap the water out to prevent growth of harmful micro organisms, and keep evaporation to a minimum.

Don't "top-off" for this method.
change it out instead.

Welcome to icmag

have fun

 

[wotamess]

it is probably wise to change out/modify your water when water cloning...

me? i fill mugs up with tap, make a foil lid, bang a hole through, drop in the cuttings.
top up water if it's used.

100% SO FAR... only done it 3 times!

i dig the pot-with-styrofoam technique, captainjack... will have to investigate!

laters
wam

 

[Guest]

ey whats up WAM, i forgot to mention,
Switching out the water's main duty, is oxygenation

the overall water quality will dictate how often you can get away without changing it
...i guess.

i dig the pot-with-styrofoam technique, captainjack... will have to investigate!

heres caprichoso's water cloning under flourescents thread --
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10827

read the whole thing-heh, that goes unsaid, Caprichoso's work is intriguing and way impressive

you wont have a problem following along

 

[Guest]

NOTE TO THREAD STARTER:

read this -- http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10083

 

[igohydro]

I get a good success rate with cuttings,I keep them overnight in water.Next day I make the final cut then dip in hormone,place in cube.
Also sometimes I would split the stem alittle to give the roots more surface area for rooting.
I use a propagator and a Starlite,I keep the light about1.5foot above.
I keep the air holes closed for the first few days then open both holes alittle more each day.Its also a good idea to take the lid off everyday for 10 minutes.
I dont mist at all as it creates stress,and the most important thing leave em alone.
Ive had em rooted in water alone also but not with a good success rate.

 

[On the Button]

light or oxygen in the water does not matter because there are no nutrients in the water.
Changing the water only cleans it.

 

[Guest]

oxygen does matter once roots have formed

the switching of the water also keeps pathogens at bay anybody else hear an echo?

not everybody's tap water is the same, and, most tap water DOES indeed contain at least trace amounts of secondary elements.

definitly enough for bacterium and lower fungi to thrive.

o, right, temps....

temps being too low will kill your cuts eventually.....the cut ends shrivel up and stem discolors and softens towards the end.

too hot and you can bake them overnight.
temps in the 80s and 90s also opens up the doors for above pathogens to take hold, whether taking-up haven in the water itself, or hosting on the plant...if not taken care of, the waterborne nasties will eventually find their way to the cut itself (or at least raise pH levels, commisioning other species to take advantage)

im no hydro guy and have never measured ppm before, on anything, so maybe some one can come by and drop some knowledge on our asses....or you can just use the search if it matters to you. it doesn't me, i just wanted to clear that little bit up for the sake of posterity.

be well,

enjoy your time here, its a wonderful place to be

hope to see more from ya in the future

be well