NEED HELP!!!

[newblue1013]

Hey people-

New to this and things are not going as well as I would like. Leaves which were a nice dark green are now turning a bit yellow on the tips...some half way down the leaves. THey are also curling up in some areas. Two plants in a perlite/ soil mixture. They look worse and worse with each passing day. Can someone give me some advice. Too much invested in this project and not ready to give up. Thanks

AC

 

[Rastanfisk]

Give them some Food !!
Nitrogen (N) Mobile Element and Macro Element

Benefit: Nitrogen plays a very big role in your plants; this one element is directly responsible for production of chlorophyll, photosynthesis, Amino Acids, which are the building block of Proteins. The myriad of enzymes which help the plants growth in leaves stems and the how well the vigor of your plants is.

Nitrogen is the biggest mobile element meaning it can travel anywhere on the plant.
Usually the def will start on the lower to middle part of the plant, and then will usually happen to older leaves first. Then the deficiency will work its way up the plant. Your plant can be green on top, then yellowing on the lower leaves when the deficiency is starting out. Yield will be greatly reduced without good amounts of nitrogen in your plants. Sometimes in bad cases the leaves will turn a purplish color along with the yellowing.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
MynameStitch
AKA Dr. Doolittle....

Peace

 

[mudvaynefan]

Can you give a few details?

It may be nute burn.

Mine did the same thing, turned yellow, curled, crispy, then died.

Yellow from def and yellow from burn are hard to sort out with no pics.

 

[Rastanfisk]

Yes MuFan ...
More Details...
Sorry about the rush (;

 

[sirgrassalot]

That's why it's a guide and not the bible. A little more info without the 'what is the' would help the diagnostic process.

 

[newblue1013]

more info, no problem.

Got these plants from a buddy of mine. He cloned them and potted them. I picked them up on Saturday and transported them to my house. I am using flourescents. I have two natural light flourescents ( plant and aquarium) suspended 2-3 inches from tops of plants. Also have the housing on the underside where the lights connect wrapped in mylar to try and use all possible light. Maybe it works maybe it doesn't. I don't think this is harmful. The plants are also surrrounded on both side by soft and cool white flourescents. I checked the ph of the soil and it was 6.5. Haven't checked the runoff. Used spring water @ room temp. (sat out on counter top). Soil top was dry to touch. Each plant got 1/2 cup of water. Poured mainly on rockwool to saturate. This morning I noticed that the plants were drooping and that the some of the leaves really looked like they were dead. Mostly on the lower portion of the plant but really seems like it is spreading up the plant since Monday. What else can I tell you? Thanks again for the help people

AC

 

[sirgrassalot]

more info, no problem.

Got these plants from a buddy of mine.

What kind of lights did buddy have? Did you drop it down a notch, you've called them plants. How old are your plants, are they girls? It sounds like they would be better off if you let buddy grow them for you. Just kidding man, I'm happy today & drank a little. They'll get healthy, that's if nothing is really wrong. My dog, he don't like change either.

 

[newblue1013]

same lights....cut them last Tuesday....been in for a week. I have always wanted to grow so letting him do it is not an option.

AC

 

[sirgrassalot]

Without the pictures I'd say slightly over fed. They're now in a bigger larger container they should be able to overcome it. Did they give you further instructions on your plants?

Rockwool, sorry earthy type here. That stuff can produce more but can fail much quicker. I'm a no brainier grow.

 

[Rastanfisk]

I have put a lot of work into this for those who need it when im not around


If you need help please DO NOT post in this thread. Make a thread in the infirmary, or post in the link below if you need my help with something.
Split From: The Complete Gude to Sick Plants,pH and Pest Troubles

When you do post please give as much detailed information as possible to faster get your diagnosis.

Questions provided by CannaGod from PLanetGanja

*NOTE: Please Cut And Paste only the section that applies and add your responce.

ARE YOU USING?

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?


HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics

What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How tall are the plants?
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
What is the Water temperature?
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?
What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple?
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
What is the pH of the "Tank"?
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
When was your last watering?
What is your water temps?
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
Are plant's infected with pest's


I have been doing a lot of research on sick plants and also helping out others a lot on sick plants!
Most of the stuff I have learned is from others and keeping up to date on there problems they are having. Some I have learned on my own, the sick plant troubles I have had was ph troubles! I didn’t really think the importance of how ph plays a role with your plants being healthy or dead.
I honestly think one of the most important parts of your growing is having a good solid ph tester, a digital one is the best to have. There are other ones you can buy as well, liquid ph test kits are inexpensive and get the job done if you can't afford a digital ph meter, STAY AWAY FROM SOIL TESTERS, they don't do the job and are not very accurate at all. Ph test strips work well, even if you are on a budjet! So if you rely on a soil tester and its tell you your soil is 7 and your having problems, 9 times out of 10 it's going to be your water ph that is messing up the soil ph check the water you are using. Unless you are using additives in your soil mixture like blood bone meal, and Peat moss those will throw your ph off too.
Adding nutes to your water can cause the ph to get low as well, so its best to test your ph of your water before and after you add your nutes. Nutrient deficiencys are mostly caused by human mistakes,along with to much or to little of the amount of nutrients available. The best range for nutrients to be absorbed is between a pH of 5 and 7 and a (TDS) range of 800 to 3000 PPM.
Having these conditions will help making nutrient deficiencys alot easier to overcome.

Well this guide I am making on sick plants is going to be very detail in helping out as many as possible… I have collected a lot of accurate data and have been putting it together piece by piece… Stuff on what kinda of nutrients can lead to locking out other nutrients as well….
I will be updating this until it gets done, because I have a lot of information but just not on every sick problem that is out there….

Mobile Elements are mostly going to affect the older leaves first then work its way to other leaves and then the nutrients will be taken from old leaves to newer growths…
The following are mobile elements and as well macro nutrients.
First off, we are going to start out with Nitrogen.

Nitrogen (N) Mobile Element and Macro Element

Benefit: Nitrogen plays a very big role in your plants; this one element is directly responsible for production of chlorophyll, photosynthesis, Amino Acids, which are the building block of Proteins. The myriad of enzymes which help the plants growth in leaves stems and the how well the vigor of your plants is.

Nitrogen is the biggest mobile element meaning it can travel anywhere on the plant.
Usually the def will start on the lower to middle part of the plant, and then will usually happen to older leaves first. Then the deficiency will work its way up the plant. Your plant can be green on top, then yellowing on the lower leaves when the deficiency is starting out. Yield will be greatly reduced without good amounts of nitrogen in your plants. Sometimes in bad cases the leaves will turn a purplish color along with the yellowing.

Unlike a magnesium deficiency, nitrogen def will start from the tips and work its way back to the leaf node. Nitrogen and Magnesium get confused. The best way to tell them apart is, nitrogen deficiency starts around the tips and works its way to the back of the leaves, where a magnesium deficiency will cover the entire outer part of the leave and make the entire leaves yellow leaving the veins to stay green. If your plants are having a slow growth rate and have yellowing of the leaves, then most likely it’s a nitrogen deficiency.
Towards the middle to end of flowering stages, the plant will show a nitrogen deficiency almost always. This process is completely normal and just let the plant naturally yellow out as it uses it's stored nutrients. This actually helps you by getting ready for final flushing and then harvesting. At this point DO NOT not use nitrogen to fix the problem. The yellowing leaves will then eventually drop off after the plant is done with them.

Parts affected by a nitrogen deficiency are: Older foliage, going to whole plant, Petioles (rare) cases.


Now for having too much nitrogen in your growing mediums or soil. The plant will have like an overall DARK green look and have delayed maturity. Due to Nitrogen being involved in vegetative growth, to much nitrogen will result in tall plants with weak stems. New growth will be very lively and plant transpiration will be high, but not always. Nitrogen toxicity can be seen when there are very very dry conditions almost as if there was a drought, which may show a burning effect. If you give your plants ammonium based nutrients they may show NH4+ toxicity, which will show a smaller plant growth and lesions that occur on stems and roots, leaf margins that will roll downward. Also the big fan leaves will have “the claw” look. The tips will point down but the leaves will stay up as if when you bend your fingers downwards. Leaves can be twisted when growing… mainly new growths. Roots will be under developed along with the slowing of flowering. Yields will be decreased, because to much nitrogen in early stages of flowering slows down bud growth. Water uptake is slowing down from the vascular breakdown of the plants as well. Too much potassium and nitrogen will lock out calcium as well.


Problems with Nitrogen being locked out by PH troubles.
Waterlogged soil and Soil with low organic matter.

Nitrogen is a very important element in the plant, all of them are but some are more important than others. For soil the best ph to have is 6.8. Why? Because at 6.8, that’s the best number for ALL available nutrients to be absorbed into the plant without any of them being locked out. For hydro and soil less mediums best ph to have is around 5.8.
Try not to keep your plants to cold, because the cold temps will cause the nitrogen harder for the plant to be absorbed.

PH levels for Nitrogen:

Soil levels
Nitrogen gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 4.0- 5.5.
Nitrogen is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.0-8.0. ( wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) best range to have nitrogen is a ph of 6-7. Anything out of that range will contribute to a nitrogen def.


Hydro and Soil less Mediums
Nitrogen gets locked out of Hydro, Soil less mediums at the levels of 4.5-5.0.
Nitrogen has the best absorption rate at a ph of 5.5 to 8.0
(Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range to have Nitrogen is: 5.0-7.0. Anything out of that range will contribute to a nitrogen def.


Solution to fixing a Nitrogen deficiency

Avoid excessive ammonium nitrogen, which can interfere with other nutrients. Too much N delays flowering. Plants should be allowed to become N-deficient late in flowering for best flavor.
A goof solid N-P-K ratio will fix any nitrogen deficiency. Any chemical or organic fertilizers that have Nitrogen in them will fix a nitrogen deficiency., Peters all purpose plant food 20-20-20 is good, Miracle grow All purpose plant food, Miracle grow Tomato plant food, (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients, or it will cause nutrient burn!) as well and blood meal! If you need to give your plants a quick solution to nitrogen and you want to use blood meal, I suggest making it into a tea for faster use, where blood meal is slow acting, but when made into a tea it works quicker! Other sources of nitrogen are dried blood, Cotton seed meal which is slow acting, Insect eating bat guano which is fast acting. Bone meal which is a gradual absorption when not made into a tea.( also excellent source of phosphorus). Fish Meal Or Fish Emulsion is a good source of nitrogen and is medium acting. Worm castings, which is gradual absorption. Seabird guano, All purpose Millennia Seabird guano, Orginal Seabird guano All Purpose, Crabshell ,which is slow absorption. Fox Farm Grow Big, which is fast acting. ( can bring down your ph as well)
Here are a list of things that help fix a Nitrogen Deficiency:

Chemical Nutrients

Advanced nutrients Grow (2-1-6)
Vita Grow (4-0-0),
BC Grow(1.2-3.2-6.5)
GH Flora Grow (2-1-6)
GH Maxi grow (10-5-14)
GH floraNova grow (7-4-10),
Dyna gro Grow (7-9-5)

Organic Nutrients

Dr. Hornby's Iguana Juice Grow (3-1-3)
Advanced Nutrients Mother Earth Grow (1.5-.75-1.5)
Earthjuice Grow (2-1-1),
Pure Blend Pro (3-1.5-4)
Bone Meal(0-10-0)
Blood Meal(12-0-0)
Fish Emulsion (5-1-1)
Seabird Guano (11-13-3)
Crab Shells(2.5-3.0-.5)
Pure Blend Grow (0.4-.01-.5)
Marine Cuisine (10-7-7)
MaxiCrop Seaweed (1-0-3)
Super Tea (5-5-1)
Mexican Bat Guano (10-2-0)
Sea Island Jamaican Bat Guano (1-10-0)
Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
Seaweed Plus Iron
Neptune's Harvest (2-4-0.5)
Alaska Start-Up(2-1-2)
Bio-Grow (1.8-0.1-6.6)
Age old Grow (12-6-6)
AGE Old Kelp (.30-.25-.15)
Neptune's Harvest (2-4-1)
Maxicrop Seweed(.1-0-1)
METANATURALS Organic grow (3-3-3)
METANATURALS Organic nitrogen (16-0-0)

So adding anyone of these above should fix up your nitrogen deficiency! Nitrogen deficient plants usually recover in about a week, affected leaves will not recover.


Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics, (which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) you need to flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients. Soluble nitrogen (especially nitrate) is the form that's the most quickly available to the roots, while insoluble N (like urea) first needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil before the roots can absorb it.


Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss, Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.

Note: Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Wood Ashes pretty much all ashes, Shellfish Compost and Crab Meal are all alkaline and can make your ph go up, so if you add any of these please monitor your ph.


Here are 3 pics of what a nitrogen def looks like.... the first one is a nitrogen deficiency in vegging. the 2nd picture is nitrogen def in flowering; THis is completely normal for mid to late flowering; as you would want your plant to naturally yellow at the end. DO NOT add nitrogen supplement to fix the problem; just let the plant yellow as cannabis does towards the end of flowering. The last picture is one that is caused by TO MUCH Nitrogen.

(Picture 1 is a Nitrogen Deficiency in veg)( Thanks to m&m for letting me use the pic)

(Picture 3 is Mine)

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

There are many Pic in the thread !! Just some help if you just Push on the htt..............

Peace

 

[sirgrassalot]

OK am I that stoned, you've said soil & rock wool?

I checked the ph of the soil and it was 6.5. Haven't checked the runoff. Used spring water @ room temp. (sat out on counter top). Soil top was dry to touch. Each plant got 1/2 cup of water. Poured mainly on rockwool to saturate.

 

[newblue1013]

MG/ Perlite mixture....rockwool with clone.....am i wrong

AC

 

[sirgrassalot]

"Two plants in a perlite/ soil mixture."

I've only grown with perlite & potting soil as my medium when I mixed soil. Old school which never fails.

 

[newblue1013]

is it dumb to use rockwool in this situation...and do I need to give the plants some notrients?

AC

 

[sirgrassalot]

Well it's not dumb if you know what you're doing but it's a specific way to grow. A way which I'm incapable of administering quality care. But if a plant is deficient in a nutrient the issue needs to be addressed. Plant care 101

 

[newblue1013]

can u have both mag and nit def?

 

[MynameStitch]

Yes, it's very common to have them both.

 

[HeadyPete]

If you overfed and you feed more you will kill them and it sure sounds like overfeeding.

Even yellowing of the whole leaves from bottom up is nitrogen deficiency. Yellowing, browning and crisping of the leaf tips is nuteburn which means you are feeding too much. What did you feed and how much and for how long? Details please.

Keep in mind those aquarium flouros are weak sauce and you need to dial back nutes accordingly. Even though they are 2" away, they still have no penetration lower in the plant. If they were under HID they could probably use that amount of food and more. Less light, less food. Those tubes are okay for seedlings, fresh clones and early veg, but you will not get squat bushy plants in veg under weak lights like flouro tubes, unless they are T5s.

How did you test soil ph? Cheap probe? If so, throw it in the garbage, because that's where they belong. You need to test runoff ph with an accurate digiprobe, or at least a good strip test.