Need help with a drip system on a commercial grow.

[hydrotran]

Right now I have a in-line 1 1/2hp leader pump trying to pump from a 250 gallon tote into the supply line which has 20 octa bubblers. The problem I'm running into is that the first 10 octa bubblers are working good but the back 10 octa bubblers pressure is low.

How do I get more pressure so all 20 octa bubblers are spraying good? I need a bigger inline pump anyone suggest any better ones? Someone told me to get a pool pump from Home Depot.

Any help would be great thanks!

 

[hydrotran]

i forgot to mention each octa bubbler has 8 outlets for 1/4 tubing going into my grodan and I already removed the rubber pieces inside of the bubbler for more pressure.

 

[Limeygreen]

What size is y our supply line? If you are able to make it smaller say from 1 inch to half inch you would get an increase in pressure or you might be able to put a ball valve on your pump supply line to try and choke it back to force more pressure. What is the run on your supply line and the rating for output/head height flow for your pump, sorry I am not familiar with this pump.

 

[Old Spice]

you need to maintain back pressure, but fill the entire line as quickly as possible. small differences in elevation will impact pressure at the bubblers so do what you need to to keep that even as possible.
If your hose with the bubblers from the pump is a dead end run, then the only way air leaves the system is blowing out the lines, allowing the first bubblers in the line to output more than the last simply because of durantion. You want that line with the bubblers to be a loop, going all the way back to your pump, with a ball valve on it after the last bubbler. Then you can allow the line to fill quickly with little resistance, and play with the ball valve at the end to set pressure. I usually have a valve before and after the drip lines so I can set intake and outbount pressure to fine tune. If you are using 1/4" drip lines, I found they flow too much for my old setup unrestricted, so I screwed in red mist nozzles to provide consistent back pressure at the end of the actual drip line.
Lots of ways to control what you are doing. Hope this helps.

 

[hydrotran]

What size is y our supply line? If you are able to make it smaller say from 1 inch to half inch you would get an increase in pressure or you might be able to put a ball valve on your pump supply line to try and choke it back to force more pressure. What is the run on your supply line and the rating for output/head height flow for your pump, sorry I am not familiar with this pump.

The supply line is 1/2" pvc then my other row I used 3/4" pvc but got the same results. I did install a ball valve to zone off the 1st portion of the system and 2nd part of the system. The only problem with that is that I'm doing alot of work almost no point in doing the auto system. The pump is 27gpm max flow. The pool pump I was hooking had a 40gpm max flow. I'm thinking that will work.

I usually hand feed but this current project is really big so im trying to do a fully automated system drain to waste. I'm just having a problem on how to setup the irrigation system.

 

[Picarus]

i am no expert, but am trying to tackle a similar problem. Could you split the system into two 10 site runs? run one for x amount of time then run the other? shutoffs from he main line controlling each section. two shutoffs would be cheaper than a larger pump for sure. Just spit balling ideas here so take it with a grain of salt

 

[Bush Dr]

The supply line is 1/2" pvc then my other row I used 3/4" pvc but got the same results. I did install a ball valve to zone off the 1st portion of the system and 2nd part of the system. The only problem with that is that I'm doing alot of work almost no point in doing the auto system. The pump is 27gpm max flow. The pool pump I was hooking had a 40gpm max flow. I'm thinking that will work.

I usually hand feed but this current project is really big so im trying to do a fully automated system drain to waste. I'm just having a problem on how to setup the irrigation system.

What you're experiencing is hydraulic friction inside the pipe, this friction increases exponentially as the pipe size decreases

Also your pumps are rated at delivering that flow at a set rate for standardised conditions, usually either 1 or 10m head depending on the pump size

Over sized pumps can be dealt with, undersized means you're on a non starter

As stated before the static head of water makes a massive difference, the static head is the difference between the top of the rez and the highest delivery point (dripper or drip ring)

There soon becomes a point with 1/2" and 1/4" pipe where friction losses equal the pump pressure, all you get is a dripple weeping out

You need to build a balancing system and take each drip line off that

For that set up I'd run at least 2 pumps, link them in case one pump fails so you're not reliant on just one

A length of 4" PVC pipe with the ends capped off, laid the length of the delivery run, with a slight fall back towards the Rez and a 1/2" drain back into the Rez (with a tap in so you can tune the flow rate) would make a good balance tube

Take your feeds to the Octa units individually and make the pipe as big a diameter and as short as you can and ALL THE SAME LENGTH

Using 4" pipe and 3/4" delivery pipe of each pump put one feed into each end, all in an effort to balance the flow to each dripper

When all this is done you need to test the results, put all the drippers into jugs, so in your case you'll need 20 jugs...........then run it for 1 minute and check your results, hopefully they'll be somewhere near each other

To really fine tune it put a tap in each delivery line then you can increase or decrease as you wish

I've been through this so many times with so many ppl, check of HGOs Coco growing tutorial https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=241341 for more details

It sounds complicated once you've done it you'll understand how obvious it is

Good Luck
Bad

 

[queequeg152]

you are using the wrong pump for this task. tubeing size has very little to do with it.

you need a pump capable of dealing with high pressure and not high rates of flow...

a pool pump needs to turn over 1000's of gallons of water per hour and maintain just enough pressure for adequate filtration. closed end reducing impellers and high rpms are used typically for this. closed end impellers draw fluid into the opening and with shearing forces,literally throw it out of the impeller at near right angles with great velocity. velocity pressure of a fluid translates to force applied....which translates to head pressure.

you are trying to pump a small volume of water at a reletivly high psi.
for this task a jet pump, or multi stage centrifugal, or a diaphragm pump is best suited.

for very high pressures you can get rotary vane procons up to like 250psi, but such pressures are far and away unnecessary for such a mundane task as drip irrigation is.

find out what flow rate you require. and ill reccomend you a proper pump.

you might also consider pressure compensating drippers... this will give you more even flow rates in cases where variable elevations are an issue.

 

[Bush Dr]

?

 

[sarek]

put drip stakes on octo bubblers or leave the plastic insert in as that is a poressure regulator. The smaller sized octobubblers the better for even watering, unless doing recirc then junk will clog them

 

[deftron]

hydrotan did you figure out how to run all these octa bubblers evenly? If so, which pump did you end up going with on the 1/2" pvc? I'm in a similar situation and want to figure it out before I build.

 

[HellaFella420]

I always connect large drip systems at the front and the back, essentially you want the pumped water to pressurize the drip system evenly, at the front, but then with a long run heading to the back side of things, so that pressure is added from the weakly pressurized end of the system too. I have done this with looped drip systems, or row style arrangement. With really large systems covering possibly 1000's of emitters, I will break the room down into zones that can be shut off and compartmentalized with inline valves. It is a little more tedious, and you have to be there when you water, so valves can be opened and closed. But it will totally work.

 

[queequeg152]

I always connect large drip systems at the front and the back, essentially you want the pumped water to pressurize the drip system evenly, at the front, but then with a long run heading to the back side of things, so that pressure is added from the weakly pressurized end of the system too. I have done this with looped drip systems, or row style arrangement. With really large systems covering possibly 1000's of emitters, I will break the room down into zones that can be shut off and compartmentalized with inline valves. It is a little more tedious, and you have to be there when you water, so valves can be opened and closed. But it will totally work.

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what pump are you using? sump pump? whats the pump curve look like?

you need a pump capable of higher pressures.

 

[HellaFella420]

1hp stainless sump pump. You get much higher pressure, you start needing hose clamps. I've been doing it just like this for years.

 

[queequeg152]

do you have a pump curve? most sump pumps are geared towards high bypass, high solids flow. they do not produce much pressure with appreciable head losses.

yea my setup does have hose clamps, but is that such an issue? i also have these poly pipe connectors with these screw down ferrules. these work excellently, but cost a shit load.

 

[mawilson]

I have A three zone system with 3 solonoid control valves A 1HP leader jet pump with A 200 micron filter on the pump outlet line 2 zones have (2) 4x8 trays 1 zone has (1) 4x8 tray between all three zones there are 230 outlets coming from the gutted octabubblers straight flow no regulators in the octabubblers problem is that it unevenly waters my 6 inch rockwool cubes some barely watered others soaked all the way the galcon timer is set for 5 seconds 4 times a day and it still seems like too much water and yet not enough for some plants I could really use some help balancing my water system.

 

[f-e]

The drip heads are pressure compensating, but in taking the bits out, you have effectively ruined them.
To spec a pump, I would need to know what guts you intend to put back in.
The smallest are 2gph so 230 of them, if run together, is 460gph. The leaders are rated per minute, which 4.333.. gallon.
https://store.waterpumpsupply.com/lejetpub.html
It looks like you could run the 6gph but not the 10gph. However they can hold 20gph regulators, and you don't even have them installed (to slow things down) so it's not going to work.

You could mess about with equal length manifolds and delivery hoses, with all emitters at the the same height. I suggest fitting the appropriate PC parts though. It's what they are for. Without them, all your water is pouring out the easiest way it can. You need to limit them all, to make the pump need them all.

A bigger pump won't fix this. A 1/8th HP pump would actually supply the 2gph emitters, if chosen wisely.

 

[mawilson]

Would I still need to creat a loop back to the pump on such a small system and I have three separate zones so the pump only pumps for 1 zone at A time which would be 90 emitter’s per zone and 50 on the last zone. The octabubblers came with 2 GPH regulators and I kept them all.

 

[CrushnYuba]

There literally is no pump that can do what u want. The matter how big of a pump u get, with how it's designed, u will have a crazy variation in flow from front to back.

How do you use a 250 gallon tank for a commercial grow? Is it really "commercial"? A 1.5hp jet pump should use 250 gallon in 10 minutes or so unless you are using way to small of pipe. I think it's just everything with the way it's designed fighting you every step.

1. you only have 1 zone.
2. It sounds like you have only 2 really long runs for the whole grow. You need a big main line that acts as a manifold and splits everything evenly off of it into short runs. Of course u will lose pressure by the end.
3. U have to have some type of emitter. If they are pressure compensating u might get away with 2 way long runs like that. But really u need a manifold that feeds short runs.

but i just don't understand how you get by using a cute 250g tote with a pump that big. It sounds like a smallish grow with a big pump and you are just trying to do the impossible with how it's all plumbed in. U probably don't even need more then 1 zone.