Need help making TAG system

[Sebastion deluX]

Hi all who wander in, this might become a long thread.

I've decided to go with a TAG system because of the incredible looking results it produces and because of the pure scientific awesomeness

Now, for my questions. hehe.

1. Im going to be in a basement area that is limited to about 6' in height plus inbetween rafters, and has support beams that limit things to 5' in depth. I can still fit about 15ft long.

What is the best container for my area? ive been considering using a 4'x8' plastic pond liner tub for a reservoir and building a wooden structure around it for reflection and venting reasons. but i dont really know the cost of those or other solutions.

2. What is the best height for my reservoir area? It will probably need to be between 2-3 feet because i still need 3-4 feat for my plants to grow up in. (im limited to 6' ceiling).

3. Assuming i did a 3x4 grid of holes, having 12 plants, how many sprayers do you think i should have? I'm seeing maybe 30-50 nozzles?

4. Does anyone have a diagram showing the different pieces (nozzles, filters, pumps, etc.) and there names for a based TAG system?

5. how much did you guys pay for your pieces of equipment (and im probably going to look at your galleries if you say, so mention if its current or in older pics please)??

6. Where can i buy this type of equipment?



if you guys could help me out with those 6 questions i'll do my best to fill in the cracks with more reading and research here online. or if anyone has a master collection of links or saved pages, please PM me about it.

I bow down and praise all of the TAG masters and hope to someday join the ranks, but keep in mind this will pretty much be my 2nd grow op and i haven't even finished my 1st. (i became a care giver recently and had to get something started asap.)

_____________

heres my current babies.

 

[TAG-monk]

humm, seriously, the first thing i should ask is - how much money your ready to spare?

 

[Sebastion deluX]

well, im seriously prepared to spend as much as 1500$ pretty much, but i would like to do it all from DIY materials (like say PVC tubing, and industrial pumps).

from what i see, i should be able to afford 30 nozzles for about 60$, and the rest of the plumbing should come to maybe around an extra 60$.

A nice 160$ for the pump, already have a 400w mh. i guess that should leave quite a bit of money.

the main problem i have is that although im willing to spend alot, i will be getting money slowly because i work part time. i generate around 500$ a month to live on, so this will prove to be tricky. however, i have a good 500$ saved up right now to get to work with, so lets see what we can do!

 

[Sebastion deluX]

ok, so i think i found a pump from shur-flo at the following addy:

http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-p7978609?sourceid=3

that should work. I'll have to do some math and see how many nozzles a single pump will be able to power and then figure out how i want to distribute the nozzles depending on if i do 1 pump or 2 pumps. I cant remember who did it but someone was going to get 2 pump systems that alternate half and half for the work so if one system failed you would half covered.

im about ready to buy the nozzles tonite and im just waiting to get someone else here on the forum to say that pump should be fine before buying it. it is a shur-flo brand which ive seen you guys using.

 

[Guest]

SD:

I am definitely very new to TAG, but I may be able to save you a few headaches based on problems I had.

First, I doubt that pump will work for you. It's a 12volt pump. I had posted to OG before it was shutdown with a very similar question and I was told that the 12volt pumps don't last as long as the 120V. Not to mention you'll have to hassle with a power supply for it, as well.

Also, that pump is only 1 gpm. You didn't specify what nozzles you are planning on using, but with if we assume they are approx 1.6gph or .0267 gpm x 30 = .8gpm which is below you're 1gpm of the pump, but not by much. You'll have to get the flow rate of your misters and do the math, but you definitely want a pump with a HIGHER flow rate than the total of all your nozzles...and leave yourself some overhead.

Also, that pump is not variable speed, so you will likely need an accumulator tank or risk the pump going out early from pulsing off and on all the time.

If you are going with "true" aero nozzles, ie <50micron definitely get yourself a 200 mesh filter. Hell...you should really have that regardless of nozzle size.

As others have said, you can really make your TAG unit from about anything. Mine is a 37 gal rubbermaid. Others have used Insulating Foam Board witha pond liner and even wood/plywood (epoxy coated, of course). It's really up to your imagination/handyman skills.

 

[Guest]

1. Im going to be in a basement area that is limited to about 6' in height plus inbetween rafters, and has support beams that limit things to 5' in depth. I can still fit about 15ft long.

What is the best container for my area? ive been considering using a 4'x8' plastic pond liner tub for a reservoir and building a wooden structure around it for reflection and venting reasons. but i dont really know the cost of those or other solutions.

2. What is the best height for my reservoir area? It will probably need to be between 2-3 feet because i still need 3-4 feat for my plants to grow up in. (im limited to 6' ceiling).

3. Assuming i did a 3x4 grid of holes, having 12 plants, how many sprayers do you think i should have? I'm seeing maybe 30-50 nozzles?

4. Does anyone have a diagram showing the different pieces (nozzles, filters, pumps, etc.) and there names for a based TAG system?

5. how much did you guys pay for your pieces of equipment (and im probably going to look at your galleries if you say, so mention if its current or in older pics please)??

6. Where can i buy this type of equipment?

Hi Sd..

Got your pm buy been super busy.. Hope this helps.

1- that's plenty of room for a nice TAG

2- 2 feet is a good depth. this will give you some head room to access lights, etc. easily and still good room for the roots to hang.

3- on your grid and plant site layout I would pay attention to the footprint of the light. If you use a 400 it won't light the full 4' area well. I ran 2 600's and tried to keep my plant site area as close to 3'x6' as possible as a single 600 lights a 3'x3' well. If you can build to fit under the light's optimum footprint that would be best.

I ran about 2 misters per plant site (20 sites). each mister was 1.6 gph with a box size of 3'x7'. Greyhound got it spot on; you need to match the mister flow to the pump output but make sure you don't have more flow than your pump is rated. Typically with a fine mist fogger this is not a prob. It's possible to do an accumulator tank to change things but that's another story all together.. since you don't have the pump or misters, buy them to match.

An example: 40 misters rated at 1.6 gph= 64 gph (gallons per hour). pumps are rated at gpm (gallon per minute) so divided by 60 mins = 1.06 gpm. Get a pump that's close to that. If you have trouble finding a pump rated that low you can either run a few more misters or increase their flow rating till you get a closer match. You can find a good fine mist up to about 2 gph. I found that placing a dedicatied mister for each root mass a couple inches away worked well, then I added the other foggers in areas with not much mist to make an even spray all inside the box.
I got my misters here: http://dripworksusa.com/store/misters.html

Google Aquatec pumps and you will find some suppliers and you can find the flow specs you need.

4- Sorry I didn't keep much but some links are still in some of the threads. Once you spend a couple of hours on the various supplier sites you will get a feel for what you need. Misters and 200 mesh filter from dripworks, then get your pump and pump fittings from the pump shop. It take some time and head scratchin.. it hurt me for a bit

5- all the prices will be on the suppliers sites. I don't really remember, maybe around $200 for a pump, $125 for a cycle timer, $100 for misters, and fittings, $25 for filter, $who knows in the depot plummin dept. Plus some other nic-naks.

6- gave ya the mister link and google will be good. Also sift through and read up on the tag threads. It will take some time but all the peices will come together. The threads are very valuable so I suggest you read post-by-post as we discussed probs and solutions a lot as well as parts and other impotant stuff. Looks like Greyhound has done some reading as he's spot on with advise.

Pretty sure the dual pump thing was somthing Lothar is doing but he's got 300 plant sites or somthing crazy on a very big rig which pumps lots of water. A backup pump is not a bad idea but using 2 on alternates on a smaller system is more work than it's worth IMO..

Good luck man!
GN

 

[Sebastion deluX]

thanks alot for those tips greyhound

I see what your saying with using a 12volt pump and needing to find a power transformer for it... aeieieie. so, with good luck in shopping still (i actually have a seriously addictive problem of watching computer parts' prices and deals like religiously) i found the pump for 50$ as listed here:

SHURflo Diaphragm Pump.

This pump is 115 vac.

1.6 GPM

90 PSI

3/8" inlet and outlet fittings

Model # 8025-933-399
___________________________

So does that pump sound good for SOME TAE!?!??!?

here's my first rough schematic of the aero box:



and also, ive decided to go with building a 4x4 box using a 400w Mh (and soon i will build another 4x4 box w/ an hps bulb(this is to help balance teh workload of harvesting by off-setting the crop cycles if it happens as often as u TAGger's claim )).

that depends on teh nozzles you say?? well, ehh... i was looking at these, but i haven't shopped around:

Superfine Misting Nozzle
The nozzle comes with 1/8" MPT that threads into a specially adapted 1/2" PVC tee.
Spray Angle 80°
Droplet Size (Microns)=55
PSI:GPH
40:0.6
80:0.7
100:0.9
___________

Each one is 1.20$ and .90c for the PVC-T, so $2.10 a pop. Now this is where im not entirely sure of how the math works and i need your guys help.

Im not really sure how plumbing works, and its hard for me to calculate since they dont give the gph at 90PSI and the gph increase is non-linear. Im not sure if i would just decrease the PSI of my pump, or what.

BUT, what do you guys think. i've never done this before.

how many nozzles does my 4x4' box need, and do i need a pump this powerful? (or should i get it anyways and slow it down since its so cheap anyways.)


i appreciate any help i can get from you guys, im sure anyone else would charge. please, bless me with your aerocanna fruit.

 

[Sebastion deluX]

And hey GN, didn't even see your post. must not have updated my thread

anyways, i was thinking about exactly what your saying with the footprint of the light and ive been moved on to the idea to try a SoG/Scrog with the aero setup. It sure is snowballing into a bigger more intricate project by the day. i figure with a little training, if i can keep the canopy even and i'll make a very thick TAG SOG SCROG. hehe. dunno if im gonna get called a tard for that. (and now that im writing this, im realizing i may have to redesign it yet again, as my 400w light isn't square and i doubt its light footprint would be square either. maybe a 3x5ft area would be better... ill have to find out the ratio of the light reflector)

So should i be looking to get an expensive "cycle timer" like you said, i was just gonna look for a digital programmable 3 prong one to run it... is there something behind this?

also, if i do 2 nozzles per plant site, and 3x5 plant sites, thats 30 nozzles, at say .7gph (80PSI), thats 21 gph for all of them, and thats .35 gallons per minute total.

IS THAT RIGHT?!!? that seems crazy low, and im afraid im gonna crash and burn now. oh the drama. so, all these 1.6gpm pumps im seeing are just overkill then i guess.


so as long as im making another post, ill ask more questions.

a) what do you guys think of doing it in such a small confined area scrog/sog style?

b) what do you think of the nozzles?

c) how long you tihnk its gonna take me

 

[Sebastion deluX]

on that site:

http://dripworksusa.com/store/misters.html

where it shows what GPH it would give at what PSI, does that mean that you shouldn't go over that 90 100 PSI? so if im looking for a pump, do i have to find one that can either govern down to that PSI or a pump that would match that PSI with that many nozzles?

 

[TAG-monk]

Hey SD, sorry i have not answer your PM, i was a lil busy and now i go to bed, but tomorrow i will help you design your entire growroom. Espacially the light footprint, as i have pass a LOT,..and i mean a real LOT of time with light theory and all that thing. So iam sure i can make you go foward in the right direction

 

[Guest]

Sd,, you are not limited to what's avail at dripworks. There are lots avail rated for 90 psi and higher. I only built one TAG so my experience is limited to what I did for my build.

Dig corp. makes a lot of foggers. Did you find more links in the various threads? Pod Racer ran his in rubber maid tubs for a while so a smaller number of foggers and the pump he used is there. You may be able to use an accumulator tank to buffer any difference in pump output and flow of you foggers... I have not done this but JAt has as well as Pod Racer.

As long as you can controll and adjust you "on" and "off" times of your pump you can use anything. I found that 30-40 seconds of on time followed by 3 to 4 mins of off time worked but you will need to be able to adjust this to find what works in your TAG.

A scrog is great for an even canopy but you will have to attach your screen to the lid of your box so you have access to the interior.

There are pumps avail. that do hi pressure, low flow. Lower than the aquatec and shurflow... A google will turn some up.

Take your time now and understand it all. If you rush you may find yourself trying to redesign your rig with plants in it... not fun

 

[TAG-monk]

So iam here! yeah i know that was long but hey,... iam not very reliable

Here we go. Your light reflector is horizontal i hope? it need to be. What is you limit of number of plant? are you medically approuved or its illegal? what strain are you running? is you plan keeping mother plant/clone ? do you want pure indica opium like stone or cerebral sativa trippy high? a mix of the 2 ? I can help you decide your strain. do harvest date is important to you?(scrog = longer veg, sog= more plant) Ounce i know the answer to those question, i have the rig all designed for you !

 

[whereisbrianV.]

SD: I have a few suggestions for you, first get a accum. tank (an e-bay RO tank will work fine-$20). Then get a HD solenoid valve and have it perform your cycles for you, that way you pump just does what it is designed to do (pressurize a vessel). With the right cycle timer (<45sec ON, >1min OFF) you can adjust you mist cycle as you see fit and have no worries about running your pump into a early grave. As for the misters GN misters look sweet, my next run will be with them because I am not happy with the plastic lines my barb misters are on. PVC is the way to go use as much as possible, avoiding all regular HD lawn type fittings and lines. You can't have too many misters with a accum tank big enough to handle them, so go for >2 per plant. Snags you will run into are fittings for your pump and accum tank. If you go with a SURFLO pump then a 1/2" pvc 1/2"FPF(female pipe fitting) to 1/2" pvc, then get some 1/2" PVC inserts ( http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation.php?cPath=37_113&sort=2a&page=2 ) This allows you to come in and out of the pump with plastic lines that won't send vibration throughout you manifold. Everything else can be made with PVC other than your 200 mesh inline filter, pressure gauge, and solenoid valve. You won't need a pressure regulator because you just set you pump to a pressure and it keeps the accum tank at it. I run 3 cycles before my pump cuts on for 10 to 15secs to get the pressure back up to 75psi. And last but not least use unions everywhere they make tightening easier and can save your ass if a quick repair needs to take place. That’s all I got I am back to clipping....Peace and long live the DOA

 

[Sebastion deluX]

just a quick update for anyone watching, ive temporarily halted my engineering work because I'm getting another job to work 32+20 hours a week and i'm also getting ready to go to school on the 4th. ALSO, i have to care for my plants that are barely hangin on because i just jumped into this whole project.

if you'd like to see them, the thread is here:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=376981#post376981

promise to have the aero going for the next cycle thou. ill start the count down in a few days once ive moved.