Need Help Adding a 240v Outlet

[barletta]

I have a 240v baseboard heater in my flower room that I don't use. It is switched on via the breaker box (no thermostat). Originally, the basement was one open space, and a thermostat controlled that baseboard (call it flower baseboard), and the same size heater near the breaker box (breakerbox baseboard). A previous owner added a room (basically walled up ~1/4 of the basement. Creating ~12' x 15' room). In doing so, the connections to the baseboards were changed.

Right now if I switch the 20a 240v double pole breaker on (at the main/only panel), I get the flower baseboard to crank full tilt, and nothing from the breakerbox baseboard. I have only kept the breaker on for ~5 min max duration since I've been here. If I'm going to draw 3k worth of juice it will be via ballast box, thanks.

So I want to replace the flower baseboard with a 240v outlet. I want this to be the sole outlet (draw/connection/whatever) on this 20a line. I did not take the covers off of the flower heater, but I checked the sticker on the inside of the heater (above the element), and they both say "240/220v...1675w..." and they are the same length, and they are both orig from when the house was built, so I can't see a builder wiring one for say 240, and the other for 208... I'm assuming the other looks like this one. These are pix of the breakerbox baseboard, which does not function from the switch right now. I would like to cap off this connection.

Here is the panel. The switch is the one is opposite my fingertip (#'s 16 and 18 on the panel. What's written on the cover is OCCASIONALLY correct - range, dryer, etc...)

Now here is the outside of the 'new' room that was built. When this room was built, the thermostat was ditched. I was told that by the LL, and he's not sure "how he did it..." :rollmuthafukkin eyes!:

Here is what looks to me to be a junction box. It's behind the hole I poked in the wall in the last pic. DIRECTLY BEHIND A STUD. It has 2 sets of cable (looks just like the incoming 3-wire cable to the breakerbox baseboard above) that both run through this hole (in/out of the 'new' room - flower).

I'm going to take the flower baseboard apart to see if it is indeed the same 2moro. I'm also thinking that I should pull this blue box off the wall and see what is going on inside.

I'm not an electrician. I'm good with my hands, and I'm a good learner, but having never had a house to worry about, plumbing and electrical scared me. That can't fly if I wanna have big, ballsy rooms, so I'm trying to do this simple lil mod. I learned how to properly sweat pipe ~2mo ago, so now I'm gonna learn bout wiring up some 240's!

 

[PharmaCan]

Your old thermostat was simply a temperature controlled switch. If that blue box and those wires have anything to do with the heating circuit, it is where the old thermostat was located. The wires inside the box should be wire-nutted together. When you start working on the flower-heater, you'll probably find a cable going out to the other heater. That is where you want to terminate the connection. Or one of the cables in that blue box leads directly to the panel so, if you want your 240v receptacle to be closer to the blue box than to the heater, use the hot wire from the blue box and disconnect the existing heater wire altogether. IOW - try to use the shortest wire run, with the fewest junctions, in order to get where you want to go.

PC

 

[VenturaHwy]

I'd just put in a new breaker and run new wire... but maybe you can't for some reason...

 

[badugi]

I'd just put in a new breaker and run new wire...

Me too.

How far is the panel from your room?

 

[barletta]

Guestimating, I would say that blue box is after a ~25-30' run of cable, and the heater (where I was planning on putting the outlet) is 'back' another ~5'.

I'm figuring the basement is ~20' wide, the panel is 2-3' from the R wall. Run of cable to the left (~15'-18') 90'deg left turn, and 10-15' to the box.

 

[badugi]

First and foremost find out what the breaker is rated at for that outlet, and the gauge of the wire being run. By 3-wire I'm assuming black, white, and bare (or green)?

Is that baseboard heater in the flower room? Are you thinking of replacing that heater with a 240v outlet for a ballast instead?

What are your electrical needs in that room?

 

[barletta]

The breaker pictured above (20a 240v dual pole) controls the heater in flower. Originally it controlled (a thermostat), the flower heater, and the one pictured. Before I moved here, a room was added to the basement (flower). After that was done, the flower room heater works solely off of the breaker - on/off, no thermostat. The pictured heater does not kick on. I have a separate 20a 240 (in the main/only panel) in the basement that controls (a thermostat and) 3 baseboards, all the same size.

I currently have 2 120v circuits that I'm using, a 15a and a 20a. I have the 3 x 400's (12a) on the 20, but to my understanding they could go on the 15 if they were the only thing. They are on a 15a surge protector + 15a timer that have yet to trip. I have 2 box fans, a 4" & 6" vortex, and ~200w of flouros on the 15a right now. I am in the process of upgrading my room.

I would like to add a 1K in less than a wk. (2 x 400w & 1k flower, 400cmh veg)
I want to swap out the flower hps' for cmh's and add a mover for the 1k in ~a month
I want to add another 1k and if possible another 400cmh, and upgrade the hoods to finish.

By the spring, I'd like to have 2 x 1k on the mover, and a 3 x 400w bank of the cmh's. The 1k's will both be cooled, and I dunno bout the cmh's, as I can keep most plant tops ~6" with no problem. Doing the math...

I figgured I could put both 1k's on the same 20a 240v circuit (the one I want to put in the flower room - replacing the existing baseboard heater...). I could run the 3 x 400's on the (existing)15a 120v; and the 4" & 6" vortexes, 6" duct fan, 400w cmh, 2 box fans and a pedestal (12-15a) on the (existing) 20a 120v.

The room would exhaust via the 6" vortex, and the lights (assuming I just cool the 2 x 1k's) will be cooled via the 4" vortex. Veg will be exhausted via the 6" duct fan. Passive air/neg pressure room. Last summer with the 3 x 400's and the ballasts in the room, venting the 'whole' room (~15 x 12) with the 6" vortex kept me ~10 deg above ambient max. DEAD of summer, ambient went to ~80deg, plants just drank more.

 

[badugi]

If you don't plan on using the heater, sounds like you can just wire up a NEMA6-20R receptacle in place of the heater. If all of your ballasts are multi-volt, you could put them all on the 20A 240v circuit and use the 120v's for everything else.

I can help you build a contactor / relay based timer box if you want. I don't really like mechanical timers anymore, too difficult to time accurately and a headache in power outages. Have an Intermatic T104 mechanical timer lying around if you want it.

 

[barletta]

OK, that's what I wanna do. That is the part that I need from the depot to replace the heater? Is there such a thing as a 240v 'surge protector' or strip (similar to a 120v...)? If the outlet is '2 x ...', how could I get the 400's on the same circuit, short of wiring in another '2x...' outlet?

I had a power outage yesterday, and today I was busy, so 2moro I'm planning on taking apart the 'blue' (junction?) box, the flower heater, and figuring out if and where/how the 'baseboard is connected. I'm not going to DO anything yet lol. I'll get more pix up 2moro.

The ballasts are 120/240, so it would be nice to put ALL the ballasts on that line (~4.5a x 2, ~2a x 4).

 

[badugi]

If you want to put all the ballasts on that 20A circuit, you could go:

breaker -> timer -> outlets

Those blue plastic receptacle / electrical work boxes can be purchased @ HD, should be $0.25 - $1.x a piece depending on size & capacity. (The single-outlet/switch receptacle box is $0.25.)

 

[badugi]

Grainger #5B132 would be a good start in creating your own timer box. Same price or cheaper than an Intermatic T104 (2-pole, 40A timer that runs on 207-277v clock), too. $16.32.

All you need is a simple digital timer, preferably one with a battery backup feature. Wire the output of that timer into the contactor's coil, wire the line & load to contactor, and off you go.

Looking at roughly $50 +/- for the whole kit.

 

[barletta]

I KNEW I saw intermatic around here somewhere.

My LL used to have a lil setup here, and this was in the basement. I really don't have any extra money, and anything I spend at HD is going on a CC, so I want to use what I have right now. I have mechanical plug in timers now, and I deal with the occasional outage ok. It's tough payin the bills with 1200 in dirt (hence the room upgrade).

I'm looking to order a hydrofarm xtrasun 1k hps and a Hortilux to put in a hood that I have. It looks similar to an artic sun in that it's big, and just has a curved sheet of pebbled aluminum behind the back of the bulb. It's from HIDhut, and I wanted to know if the hydrofarm ballast will fit the reflector, or if I have to buy the adapter. The hood looks like it has 3 prong male plug, with the plugs all being the same rectangular shape/size, and the center plug being slightly longer. Will this plug fit the hydrofarm?

Ok, pulled the box off of the wall, and here we are. Each white 'cable' has 3 'wires' - white, black and naked.

And here is the 'flower heater'.

 

[PharmaCan]

Well, it looks like someone just stuffed the thermostat inside the blue box when they were building the wall. Fucking Neanderthals! If you are going to use the wire straight from the panel (the hot wire in the blue box), just cut off that other wire & stuff and get it out of the way.

If you want to use the use the wire where it comes out of the wall for the heater, remove that thermostat and wire nut the wires together per their colors, inside the blue box, rehang the blue box and put a blank cover on it. At the heater, cut the wires and remove the heater. One cable will be hot, one will not. Abandon the cable that's not hot and that'll disconnect your other heater. If you use the cable that was going to the heater, move it up higher off the floor before you hook a receptacle or timer to it. If those timers 240v they'll work. If they are 120v they won't work because 120v needs a neutral wire and you don't have one.

PC

 

[barletta]

Guys, THANK YOU for the help

I broke down and bought a noname multimeter for like 30 bux. My pops had a real deal flukemeter 15 yrs ago. I used it with him watching (on cars and bikes), but was always afraid that I'd fukk it up (was ~1g for the handheld..) so I never really learned how to use it. This lil POS works fine - has a 200 and 600v AC setting, so that's all I needed it for.

I ended up cutting off the lampcord and wiring it to an old 400mh.

I figgured out which wires did what at the heater (left was hot, right was not), which turned out to be a waste of time...

I did the same at the blue box, and installed a single 240 outlet right there. I mounted the outlet/box outside of flower, and when the time comes, I'll just run the lamp cord through to flower.

It was REALLY easy, but I was intimidated having never really played with ANY household current, but still understanding what a slight whack from a 120 feels like. It was deffo easier than learning to sweat fukkin pipe! ALL of the actual 'visualizing/testing/cutting/wiring' took ~an hr.