Need a little advice and help on design

[Delta Force]

So I'm helping a friend get a list together for a room we're building. I'd figure I'd start a thread and maybe ask questions as I come across things I need help with.

Room Size- 8x12x7= approx 675 cubic feet.(total room size but grow is only 4x8 soil beds and maybe a DWC bucket or 2.

Lights- for now a 1k hps but will be 2 1ks soon not air cooled.
Each light will be lighting about 4x4 of a bed.

My 1st important question is about the carbon and fan setup.

I took the cubic feet of 675 and divided it by 5(correct or not?) to get my 5min complete exchange rate and got 135........gonna call it 150CFM tho to make sure without going apeshit on overkill.


So does the fan need to be calculated at the 5 min exchange rate? 150CFM
And should the Can Filter be calculated at total space? 675' cubed

Thanks for any help clearing up this 1st issue.............my goal is to get what is needed but not go crazy over kill. I'll have more questions concerning AC and humidifiers/dehumidifiers soon.

Right now I am planning on getting a 6inch vortex with the appropriate Can Filter once figured out.

 

[Delta Force]

Wow 19 looks and not a response.......Sweet IC thanks lol ......I'll get er done like always.

 

[bounty29]

http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=51673 - 6" CAN Filter + Fan
http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=46109 - 8" CAN Filter + Fan

I would go with either a 6" or 8" fan with a speed controller. Better to get something bigger than you need and tone it down, than to get something smaller than you need and have to buy more stuff.

I think 150cfm is a bit on the low side for your setup, I'm in a cabinet that's about 12 cubic feet with a 150w HPS and I'm using a 4" 170cfm fan with a carbon filter, with a speed controller. With 2k worth of lights there's going to be a lot of heat, so you're not going to want to skimp on ventilation at all. I'm not sure exactly how much you need, but it is for sure more than 150cfm.

Remember, when making the fan pull through a carbon filter you're going to be taking away a lot of it's air-moving power.

 

[Delta Force]

yeah I am always and overkill guy but with this setup I have to keep it quiet. Not a prob with most of my setups. Im setting up 3 others with no sound restrictions but this one has gotta be super quiet. The can 33 w 6 inch was gonna be my 1st choice. Now I feel im just gonna bump up to the bigger one and add a muffler and speed control. Like you said bro........i can tone it down if needs be but have all the extraction I need too. Thanks brosef........I think the 66 or even maybe a size up with the proper 8 will do. Still gonna consider a 6in if CFMs are up to par but more activated carbon the better. Im gonna run an AC for cooling but the exchange of the "old dirty air" is first. Its gonna run into another air treatment room b4 heading "out" but I want it to be 99.5% clean as it enters that extra buffer room.

Gonna make the decision today on CAN/FILTER setup and call it done. Then its on to AC and intake fans. I may go cheapy on these with some stanley blowers....still debting this.

Thanks for your 2 cents bro......

 

[TGT]

I think you will be needing a can 50 and a 300 CFM to exhaust the room. I think it will be very quiet once it is hooked up and if you use a speed dial on your fan you can lower it to the point where it is quiet and also doing its job. Thats why I like to go a little over kill. It is better to do that than to have to purchase another fan out right. Just a suggestion, but you seem like you have things under control. Good luck on the grow and give us a peek if you can of how things are going.

TGT

 

[Guest]

Air cooled hoods with a 6" inline with an additional inline fan for the filter. Don't forget the passive intake for ventilation/fresh air. Add to the equation a suitably sized stand or wall mount fan for circulation. Emphasize performance and with quality equipment noise levels will be acceptable.

Capacitor and slow start motors (in lines) do not function well with speed controllers as they ARE NOT designed for use on brushless motors. Also, anytime air is being moved in volume there will be some noise caused by the blades or impellers and the air movement itself. There is no holy grail for this issue other than a muffler. I think Yamaha_1fan has a tutorial on this subject.

Use the ICMag search engine, quite a bit of info there.

Good Luck,

TyStik

 

[Delta Force]

Thanks for the input guys..........yeah im picking up a muffler too so I think the noise issue should be cool.

Now passive intake meaning not bringing in fresh with a fan but allowing the suction of the exhaust to bring it in from an opening/duct(I would think smaller than the exhaust to have proper neg pressure?)? I was planning on a small dayton or similar for intake.....gotta have freshies coming in right.

And I have seen so many dif opinions on the speed controllers for the can fans. They have plug n play ones so you would think it would be okay but im no expert. With the muffler it should negate the need for the controller tho so maybe this is moot point.......you think?

This weekend its diggin a trench for power supply to the "spot" then insulating,drywalling, and setup. Hopefully in a bit we'll have some pics to throw up.........I think its gonna be a giesel,ffa, and TBD grow.

 

[SacredBreh]

Hello Delta.....

Hello Delta.....

Sounds like you are off to a great start. I am going to go the other way.

I use the Vortex and use a router speed controller to turn it up and down. These are built for that type of motor. 3 years and running fine and quiet.

I would go with an 8" Vortex and 75 CAN. Better to go slower and larger for quiet than smaller and faster. Air makes a lot less noise going through a 8-12 in. duct than same amount through smaller duct and fan. Plus, your equipment will last a lot longer. Generally speaking most of the sound is with the motor and duct than at the end where you have the wooosh come out. Just been my experience. I use the insulated, flexible ducting rather than the metal. Lose a little air flow but much less noise too.

Peace

 

[TGT]

At my hydroponic store they have speed controllers (I was told) that are made specifically for inline fans such as the Can Fan series and the Elicient. The only problem is they are very expensive at $150.00 each. After reading what Ty-Stik wrote about speed controllers and inline fans it makes sense as I guess as they are special in some way. I wonder if they are good for the fans or not being that they are so expensive.

TGT

 

[Guest]

SacredBreth------------when you use the speed controller and at the lower end hear buzzing/humming sounds----where do YOU think it comes from???

I asked a question of you---------------NOW give all of the folks in the forums an answer to this issue.

You don't have one.

Capacitor and slow start motors do not respond to speed controllers. They are brush less. Before you put more Hoodoo and Doo Doo into the equation , do your homework KIDDDDDDS.

TyStik

 

[SacredBreh]

Ty-Stik

Ty-Stik

Seems like an awful lot of people on this site like to argue a lot these days.... a guy asks for help and opinions and I give him my opinion... then some ill tempered troll pops up with an adolescent type challenge. Am on here to share and swap ideas and opinions not justify or defend. If you don't like others ideas then at least be civil about it. (Man do I miss OG)

Ty-Stik-- when have you been to my grow room? I don't remember inviting you over. Now, I am sure I would not. I do not have a humming or buzzing. I agree when it is turned down it sounds a bit different but not humming or buzzing. I think I mentioned they have been running for the last three years... all of them and no down time. Damn, 365d x24hrs x3 yrs x 3 fans. hmmmm pretty poor performance. NOT! They are still doing their thing and quiet as a usual fan.

I did use a light switch dimmer a long time ago but it did cause a buzzing sound, louder than the fan on high so I went to the router dials and none of that noise. Anyway not looking for an argument.... you see I have been to my grow rooms and am not looking to prove anything.

By the way, when did you start representing the "forum"?

My home work is growing with the equipment I suggested, not taken out of a book. 20 years worth of "home work".

Oh, don't call me a kid. I have not been one for over 40 years. Did you just have a bad day or what?

PEACE (capitals for emphasis)

 

[TGT]

After reading some I agree with Ty-Stik that it is not the best thing to do to use a speed controller on an inline fan. But as SacredBreh stated, he has used one for three years and had no problems. I have had a cheap one hooked up to my Elicent and it has lasted years also. So I guess it is not the best for the fan and probably they won't last as long doing this, but if I get over three years from it that is good enough for me. So really I think both of you have good points that are totally valid.

The guy at the hydro store told me he had speed controllers that were made for inline brushless fans. I don't know how much truth is in that, but does anyone know of such a product or is he trying to just sell his merchandise? They are very expensive so that suggests to me something is differnent about them than a normal controller. Either they are specifically designed for inline fans or it's just a load of crap.

TGT

 

[bballsk8er333]

first off, if u do that 1ce per 5 min drill, you will have smell problems 100%....something no one is telling him about??? 2nd, even if you decided to do it the wrong way (1ce per 5 min), your carbon filter, AND your ducting, AND your room size AND the fans backpressuure loss of CFM will have to be takin account for. I would go at the minimum, for your setup, with a 300+ CFM and at least 6in, (if u want sound) and 8 in if u want to get it as quiet as u like. If u use the speed control, which i dont recomend, it will make a different noise, and also it will make it so you have less CFM and more backpressure loss of CFM (since the fan is spinning slower than it is designed to.

Long story short- get a 300+ 8 inch, and if you want it super quiet, don go so big????

 

[SacredBreh]

Agree with bb....

Agree with bb....

If you go with the 8 in. and do not slow it down, just use 12 in. ducting. It is hard to hook it to the fan but the increased size makes little or no resistance. Oh, that is 3 fans for 3 years. 1 -8 in. and 2-6 in. that is why I recommend the 8 in.... have often wished they were all 8's. Vent completely in house without anyone knowing. Have had large parties without any issues.

I run the quietest pumps you can get. (once again this is my humble opinion) GH 4 port dual diaphragms. The pumps are louder than the 3 fans combined, but I have several is why.

Peace

 

[TGT]

I have never used the 8 inch inlines before. Always the 6 inch, usually the Elicent 200B. If the CFM is the same as the 8 inch is it much quieter than the 6 inch? If so you wonder why anyone would go with the 6 inch when matching the fan to the proper carbon scrubber.

TGT

 

[SacredBreh]

Good point TGT....

Good point TGT....

In my room with the 8 in. I didn't want to put a reducer for the cool tube which is 6in. so I just put on a "Y" 8in. to two 6in. The 6in. on the "Y" that did not go to the cool tube I put facing up towards the ceiling and reduced the inside diameter to 3in. So there is no resistance to draw by the fan and the "Y" not connected to the fan pulls out some hot air out of the room that is towards the ceiling. I use passive inlets placed at the bottom of the room so that the cool air is pulled up through the ladies then into the exhaust and the extra by the "Y". When I use CO2, I put the input into the opening of the intakes. It mixes it and pulls it up into the ladies. With adjusting the fan speed relative to temperatures and ppm of CO2 I can run mid to upper 80's with CO2 between 1700 and 2000ppm. Sort of a balancing act.

Peace