Need a Electrician....

[PoopyTeaBags]

Ok so long story short i wired 6 240 plugs.. every two plugs had a junction box... i have wired tons of lines and dont see this to be problem ever before...

everything worked fine but 2 plugs so i check a junction box and the wire nut came loose so i rewirednutted it and the plugs worked but i got shocked...??? so i was like wtf... grabbed some rubber handed pipe wrench and touched the metal plug box to the metal junction box... BOOOOOM arc weld and flipped the breaker... woah.....

so i was like wtf... tested it on the other 4 plugs and two junction boxes and one was totally fine and the other did the same thing arc weld sparks fly flipped breaker blew out a MH bulb.....

so wtf did i do wrong...? ive wired plenty of lines np.. did i go through the wire somewhere makeing the metal boxes hot???

it happened on two of the three junction boxes and 4 of the 6 plugs.... the plugs it didnt do it on was with the corresponding junction box....

if i didnt accidently go through the wires rubber what did i do wrong?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Yes you do!

Sorry I'm not one...

 

[Panama Red]

Proper ground AND neutral all the way back to the panel?

Boxes and conduits all tied back to ground?

 

[Tilt]

mistake #1` turn off the power before you work on a j box esp. if you allready got shocked.
troubleshooting questions
1. are your j boxes bonded to the ground wire (assuming metal j box)
2. stranded or solid wire
3. is the wire romex, mc, flex, or conduit
4. check that wire nut make sure you have no copper showing
5. do you have a multi meter with continuity setting
6. pics might help

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Proper ground AND neutral all the way back to the panel?

Boxes and conduits all tied back to ground?

im running 12/3 on a 240 so the neutral is hooked up to the breaker and the grounds are hooked up to the ground panel thing... im really confused....

 

[rives]

First, the boxes are obviously not grounded. Second, it looks like you have one leg of the 220 grounding out against the box or conduit if you are running in it. With the circuit on, if you take a wiggy or a voltmeter and read from the box to each side of the plug, you will probably read 220v on one side and zero on the other. The side that reads zero is the one that is grounding out to the box. The lack of a ground would make me a little nervous about the other "tons of lines" that you've run. Grounding is critical, it is what makes the protection work and is critical around grow ops because of the water, plumbing, and HID circuits. Hope this helps.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

First, the boxes are obviously not grounded. Second, it looks like you have one leg of the 220 grounding out against the box or conduit if you are running in it. With the circuit on, if you take a wiggy or a voltmeter and read from the box to each side of the plug, you will probably read 220v on one side and zero on the other. The side that reads zero is the one that is grounding out to the box. The lack of a ground would make me a little nervous about the other "tons of lines" that you've run. Grounding is critical, it is what makes the protection work and is critical around grow ops because of the water, plumbing, and HID circuits. Hope this helps.

Im going to reread this in the morning im done working im been smoking and drinking alittle so excuse me if im not correct...

grounding out the lines.... Its pretty simple right? Running 240 you will hook your neutral and positive to the breaker and the ground to to ground strip in the box... and the plugs are self explanatory... if im doing something wrong please tell me... ill reread the info and check what you told me to check int he morning but in the mean time if you can tell me what is wrong with the info i just game you id appreciate it....

obviously im no electrician... i appreciate the help

 

[rives]

If I am understanding you correctly, you are missing the step of grounding the box. If you are using metal boxes, there is a screw hole in the back of the box for you to attach the ground wire to in addition to the ground connection on the receptacle. This ties the box to ground in case one of the hot wires comes into contact with it. You have probably nicked the insulation on one of the hot wires and it is resting against the box, heating it up (making it electrically live). If the box is grounded properly, the breaker will trip as soon as you try and turn it on under these circumstances.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

If I am understanding you correctly, you are missing the step of grounding the box. If you are using metal boxes, there is a screw hole in the back of the box for you to attach the ground wire to in addition to the ground connection on the receptacle. This ties the box to ground in case one of the hot wires comes into contact with it. You have probably nicked the insulation on one of the hot wires and it is resting against the box, heating it up (making it electrically live). If the box is grounded properly, the breaker will trip as soon as you try and turn it on under these circumstances.

thanks very much this was skipped i usually deal with plastic boxes... so basically i should be grounding out each plug and/or the junction boxes? so all or just plugs... the junction boxes are also metal... thanks again man.. the help is so appreciated.

 

[rives]

Yes, they both need to be grounded. The electrical sales places carry a ground bonding jumper for this purpose, it is a green wire about 9" long or so with an eye on one end to screw down onto the back of the box. They are handy, but you can just use a bare chunk of wire out of your romex (or strip one) and do the same thing. Any metal box, cabinet, conduit or whatever you are running through needs to be grounded.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Yes, they both need to be grounded. The electrical sales places carry a ground bonding jumper for this purpose, it is a green wire about 9" long or so with an eye on one end to screw down onto the back of the box. They are handy, but you can just use a bare chunk of wire out of your romex (or strip one) and do the same thing. Any metal box, cabinet, conduit or whatever you are running through needs to be grounded.

thanks bro i appreciate the help... will be done tomorow.

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

yeah poopy that makes sense, my junction box was grounded when I had it wired. Crazy ass....

 

[Oregongrow]

I think you have more problems then not grounding a metal box....

 

[Panama Red]

im running 12/3 on a 240 so the neutral is hooked up to the breaker and the grounds are hooked up to the ground panel thing... im really confused....

^^^That's your problem^^^

The neutral DOES NOT get connected to the breaker!!!

If you connected your neutral to the breaker, you've essentially lit up your ground.

Turn everything off, start from the beginning.

With 12/3 wire, you have 4 conductors. Red, black, white and bare copper.

At the breaker box;

The neutral (white) goes to the neutral buss along with the ground (plain copper).

The hots (1 red/1 black) go to the breaker. It's a GFCI I hope.

At the receptacle;

Brass colored screws are the hots, they get the red and black wires connected to them.

Silver colored screw is neutral, white wire gets connected to it.

Green screw is ground, bare copper wire connected here with a pigtail joining it to the metal box.

 

[Tilt]

^^^That's your problem^^^

The neutral DOES NOT get connected to the breaker!!!

If you connected your neutral to the breaker, you've essentially lit up your ground.

Turn everything off, start from the beginning.

With 12/3 wire, you have 4 conductors. Red, black, white and bare copper.

At the breaker box;

The neutral (white) goes to the neutral buss along with the ground (plain copper).

The hots (1 red/1 black) go to the breaker. It's a GFCI I hope.

At the receptacle;

Brass colored screws are the hots, they get the red and black wires connected to them.

Silver colored screw is neutral, white wire gets connected to it.

Green screw is ground, bare copper wire connected here with a pigtail joining it to the metal box.

wow wait a minute p red some of what you said is correct. some can confuse the shit out of him.

some people get 12/2 and 12/3 mixed up helpers do all the time.
12/2 is black white and geen or bare
12/3 is black red white and green or bare

nuetrals and grounds are not landed on the same bus bar unless it is also the point of service ie panel with the meter attached

2 pole 220 volt gfi breakers are very expensive

white can be reidentified by a black marker or black tape to act as a hot wire in a 220v circuit properly colored wire is preferred

assuming his is a 2 pole 4 wire receptacle you are correct. I doubt it though. He probably has a 220 volt 20amp receptacle 3 wire 2 hots 1 ground Rives is right he probably has a nicked wire probably as the wire enters the j box that was in contact with the metal. Grounded box would have protected him from the shock. He is very lucky. I bet the there is a point of arc flash where a portion of the box is blackened, a little melted divet and a little copper has melted to it.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

wow wait a minute p red some of what you said is correct. some can confuse the shit out of him.

some people get 12/2 and 12/3 mixed up helpers do all the time.
12/2 is black white and geen or bare
12/3 is black red white and green or bare

nuetrals and grounds are not landed on the same bus bar unless it is also the point of service ie panel with the meter attached

2 pole 220 volt gfi breakers are very expensive

white can be reidentified by a black marker or black tape to act as a hot wire in a 220v circuit properly colored wire is preferred

assuming his is a 2 pole 4 wire receptacle you are correct. I doubt it though. He probably has a 220 volt 20amp receptacle 3 wire 2 hots 1 ground Rives is right he probably has a nicked wire probably as the wire enters the j box that was in contact with the metal. Grounded box would have protected him from the shock. He is very lucky. I bet the there is a point of arc flash where a portion of the box is blackened, a little melted divet and a little copper has melted to it.

woah woah maybe i messed up i have 3 wires a hot netural and a ground... so maybe im running 12/2.... i know with 240's instead of putting the neutral on the ground bar it becomes your second hot and plugs into the breaker....

and you are 100% correct it was like a arc weld messed up the metal and left a black mark....

i do believe i just need to ground everything out....

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

I think you have more problems then not grounding a metal box....

if you would elaborate it would help me more then just a statement... thanks anyways....

 

[Tilt]

woah woah maybe i messed up i have 3 wires a hot netural and a ground... so maybe im running 12/2.... i know with 240's instead of putting the neutral on the ground bar it becomes your second hot and plugs into the breaker....

and you are 100% correct it was like a arc weld messed up the metal and left a black mark....

i do believe i just need to ground everything out....

you are correct just make sure you mark that white wire to identify that it is hot.

you need 10/32 machine screws (in the trade we call them ground screws they are short green screws) for the threaded hole in the back of the box to bond it to the ground wire . you take your gound wire and twist it around that then pigtail out your receptacle. The guy said that your problems are more than grounding your boxes implying that your electrical knowledge is not high enough to be wiring a grow. Thats OK we all have to start some where. If you are unsure feel free to ask. Their are some sparkies that will help. You will have to replace some of the wire that was damaged. Do not just wrap it in black tape and call it good. That wire probably melted mostly through.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

you are correct just make sure you mark that white wire to identify that it is hot.

you need 10/32 machine screws (in the trade we call them ground screws they are short green screws) for the threaded hole in the back of the box to bond it to the ground wire . you take your gound wire and twist it around that then pigtail out your receptacle. The guy said that your problems are more than grounding your boxes implying that your electrical knowledge is not high enough to be wiring a grow. Thats OK we all have to start some where. If you are unsure feel free to ask. Their are some sparkies that will help. You will have to replace some of the wire that was damaged. Do not just wrap it in black tape and call it good. That wire probably melted mostly through.

i took everything apart and got more confused... no wires are touching any of the metal boxs. The one that works fine is wired like all the other ones... not that itll help but here are some pictures....

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[rives]

Well, the wire has to be making contact somewhere. I don't see it in the pictures - where was the arc mark? By any chance did you put either the black or the the white wire on one of the ground lugs on the receptacle? The strap to ground would then heat up the box. By the way, the type of wire that you are using is called 12/2 w/ground. I think Tilt was on the right track last night - do you have an ohmeter and know how to use it?