Name that deficiency!!!

[eLiguL]

HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics

What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
-DWC

What STRAIN are you growing?
-Menage a Trois, Hashberry

What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
-Seed

What is the age of your plants?
-32 Days

How tall are the plants?
-Varies from 8-12inchs

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
-Flowering as of 01.22.08

What Technique are you using?
-Not sure how to answer this.

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
-2inch rockwool cubes

What is the Water temperature?
-19c

What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?
-White

What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple?
-Floranova, Lucas formula

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
-1.0EC

What is the pH of the "Tank"?
-5.8

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
-Yup, calibrated yesterday

When was your last watering?
-DWC

What is the Water temperature?
-This question is repeat, you might wanna edit it in your original thread.

When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
-Not sure how to answer this cuz im using DWC.

How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?
-2 weeks

What size bulb are you using?
-250w

What is the distance to the canopy?
-approx 1ft

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
-45%

What is the canopy temperature?
-28C

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
-Dont have a day/night thermometer

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
-100cfm

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
-Yes

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
-Soft

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water?
Distilled? Mineral Water?
-Tap

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
-Yes removed bottom 6 branches on all plants on 01.21.08

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
-Nope

Are plant's infected with pest's
-Nope






















Not sure what it is. All the pictures are from middle fan leaves that I removed because of the poor condition they are in.

 

[thc43]

im guessing you have alittle salt build up in the leaves with high temps they burn faster if under the globe..

Wjere are the leaves from? lower plant, mid or newest leaves from the top








Ive never really had deficient plants but have burnt a few with nute and heat with leaves looking simular. Btw its alittle early for your plant to be shedding leaves if came from lower plant maby lower the EC and or flush for a day or two then feed 0.2 to 0.4ec lower than week before..

 

[ItsGrowTime]

I think your plant isnt getting enough calcium. Ive come to accept that Floranova (I use both grow and bloom) doesnt provide enough calcium to certain strains. Look into a calcium supplement. Your canopy temps are a bit high also btw.

 

[MynameStitch]

How tall are the plants?
-Varies from 8-12inchs

that is your problem, well at least one problem. THe other problem is you have more than one strain in the same system. THat is a nono, because they all have different care, some can take the same nutrients some can't. When you have this issue you play tug of war through the entire grow and one strain(s) loose. One may be more hungry and the other fine so when you increase the feeding the others may not like it and you can burn them, unless you have grown these strains before in the setup or know they take the same nutrients, lighting and such then that is different.

Can you take a picture of the plants that is doing this?

When was the last time you cleaned out your whole system?

Is all strains affected or just one?
I find it funny how many people can live by the lucas formula and some say they don't. Funny thing I Have noticed over years of helping people out is, not all strains can handle lucas, they need more or need less and you end up messing things up. So if lucas formula is not working for you I suggest you trying a different method.

If your tap water is soft, what is the TDS/PPMs of your tap water out of the tap with nothing added?

That will tell us if you may have enough for them or not.
Are you letting your water sit out before using it?
If not, you may very well have hard water damage, I have seen this a lot.

There is defiantly more than one problem here though.


What pH meter are you using?

 

[eLiguL]

I think your plant isnt getting enough calcium. Ive come to accept that Floranova (I use both grow and bloom) doesnt provide enough calcium to certain strains. Look into a calcium supplement. Your canopy temps are a bit high also btw.

I was thinking the same thing. At first I thought it was a Mag def, I bought some epsom salt but it did nothing to help. I got some of this to see if it fixes the problem.

How tall are the plants?
-Varies from 8-12inchs

that is your problem, well at least one problem. THe other problem is you have more than one strain in the same system. THat is a nono, because they all have different care, some can take the same nutrients some can't. When you have this issue you play tug of war through the entire grow and one strain(s) loose. One may be more hungry and the other fine so when you increase the feeding the others may not like it and you can burn them, unless you have grown these strains before in the setup or know they take the same nutrients, lighting and such then that is different.

I knew going in with more than one strain in my setup I was gonna have problems but ive accepted that. What im trying to do now is pick a winner(least finnicky, best yield/potency) of the bunch. Im trying to pinpoint what this is because all the strains seem to be showing this def/problem. The Menage a Trois seem to show less of the problem and the Hashberry's seem to be taking the worst of it.

Can you take a picture of the plants that is doing this?

When was the last time you cleaned out your whole system?

Approximetly 7 days ago

Is all strains affected or just one?

All, MAT's not so much but the HB showing it pretty bad.

I find it funny how many people can live by the lucas formula and some say they don't. Funny thing I Have noticed over years of helping people out is, not all strains can handle lucas, they need more or need less and you end up messing things up. So if lucas formula is not working for you I suggest you trying a different method.

I was thinking the same thing but im going to stick it out for this run and consider switching to 3 part GH.

If your tap water is soft, what is the TDS/PPMs of your tap water out of the tap with nothing added?

0.3EC/150PPM

Are you letting your water sit out before using it?
If not, you may very well have hard water damage, I have seen this a lot.

Ya I bought two identical buckets for my setup. One is the grow bucket and one I use for water storage/declorinating chamber.

There is defiantly more than one problem here though.

I think so as well, I was looking through your guide and Jorge's bible and couldnt find one clear answer for this problem.

What pH meter are you using?

One I bought from eBay. I dont think this is the problem, it came with 2 buffer solutions and ive tested multiple times on the accuracy of the readings.

 

[MynameStitch]

Do you let your water sit out before using it?
What nutrients are you using though? What is all in lucas formula, what nutrients and amounts.

 

[eLiguL]

Do you let your water sit out before using it?

Yes

What nutrients are you using though? What is all in lucas formula, what nutrients and amounts.

Floranova Bloom only. Increase the dosage as they get older (I increase the dosage by 25ppm and im currently at 500ppm, they are eating about 25ppm a day). Lots of people have reported a Cal/Mag def with this formula and thats what im leaning towards atm.

 

[MynameStitch]

150 ppms with that size of plants you should not be having any calcium problems at the moment.

If they are only removing 25 ppms from the water then you may be burning them.

Does the pH rise or fall when nutrients are removed from the water?
Can you take a few more pictures of the plants, but do not have the HPS light on, I can't see the color or the problem the plants are showing.

Is this happening on the lower part of the plant right?
If so, calcium does not start on lower leaves, it starts in the middle to top part of the plant and shows spotting, not like the leaves in the picture you posted.

Which strains are doing this problem?
Considering you have more than one strain in there you will be fighting the whole time...... so you will have to find a medium where they can both tolerate the nutrients.
is your PPMs 500 is that including your tap water and nutrinets added? Or just the nutrients?

Considering the fact you have no micronutrients but the stuff in the tap, you will be very good off getting a complete set of micronutrients.

Calcium,magneisum, sulfur, boron, zinc and magneisum is ones of the most importants you need,

So you will need to find a nutrient that has them, cal mag, sensi cal, earthjuice microblast, catalyst, are just a few that have a good micronutrient selection.

AN micro too. When did this problem start? How long ago?
Also why did you switch to bloom so quickly? You should always wait a week before switching to a bloom fert, the plants don't flower right away, you should still be using a nitrogen ( grow fert)

 

[eLiguL]

If they are only removing 25 ppms from the water then you may be burning them.
-One of the plants (HB) did show signs of burning(tip browning and curling upwards) when I had it at 1.1EC/550PPM but after lowering it back to 500PPM that stopped immeadiately

Does the pH rise or fall when nutrients are removed from the water?
-Rises

Can you take a few more pictures of the plants, but do not have the HPS light on, I can't see the color or the problem the plants are showing.








Is this happening on the lower part of the plant right?If so, calcium does not start on lower leaves, it starts in the middle to top part of the plant and shows spotting, not like the leaves in the picture you posted.
-This is kind of my fault for the misunderstanding. I trimmed off the lower branches (6) and they were perfectly healthy green. So the lower branches/leaves that are affected are actually the middle leaves (one of the HB is showing on the top leaves). It slowly progressed to the state that you saw it in. It started off as brown spotting then reached to that state.

Which strains are doing this problem?
-Both strains, its more severe on the HB.(answered this question earlier in my other post)

Considering you have more than one strain in there you will be fighting the whole time...... so you will have to find a medium where they can both tolerate the nutrients.
-I understand and have accepted that.

is your PPMs 500 is that including your tap water and nutrinets added? Or just the nutrients?
-(Tap)150PPM+(Nute)350PPM=(Total)500PPM.

When did this problem start? How long ago?
-At about 2 weeks into the plants life.

Also why did you switch to bloom so quickly? You should always wait a week before switching to a bloom fert, the plants don't flower right away, you should still be using a nitrogen ( grow fert)
-I can see from this question you arent familiar with Lucas's Floranova Bloom formula. You use only bloom the entire cycle and increase dosages as plants need them, without going over 8ml/per gallon of water.

 

[MynameStitch]

I don't know a whole lot about lucas formula, but I do know not all strains like it, some peeps live by it, but it don't work all the time.

Ok, since the browning stopped immediately, has it progressed at all? everything else sounds good...... since you stopped the burning problem, your problem should be solved.

 

[eLiguL]

Ok, since the browning stopped immediately, has it progressed at all? everything else sounds good...... since you stopped the burning problem, your problem should be solved.

-The browning tip burn has stopped. The browning from the first set of pictures in my post continues. Im pretty sure its a Calcium def. mixed with something else I cant quite put my finger on.

 

[MynameStitch]

Well, considering you don't have much micros added, I would go ahead and try it.... but again like I said, I don't know much about lucas formula; I will do some research on it though.

Personally they look like a different problem, one I have not seen before; I have never seen a progressed calcium deficiency; normally they stay reddish brown, not brown like the color yours are...... Yours look more like a burn to me than anything else.......

 

[eLiguL]

Thanks for your input and help

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey how is your plants doing? Can you post some updates?