Mylar...Might save your ass?

[Military]

Infrared (IR) radiation is electromagnetic radiation of a wavelength longer than that of visible light, but shorter than that of microwaves. The name means "below red" (from the Latin infra, "below"), red being the color of visible light with the longest wavelength. Infrared radiation has wavelengths between about 750 nm and 1 mm, spanning five orders of magnitude. Humans at normal body temperature can radiate at a wavelength of 10 microns.

Infrared imaging is used extensively for both military and civilian purposes. Military applications include target acquisition, surveillance, night vision, homing and tracking. Non-military uses include thermal efficiency analysis, remote temperature sensing, short-ranged wireless communication, spectroscopy, and weather forecasting. Infrared astronomy uses sensor-equipped telescopes to penetrate dusty regions of space, such as molecular clouds; detect cool objects such as planets, and to view highly red-shifted objects from the early days of the universe.

I've just recently heard that Mylar or Space Blankets can block inferred scanning which is more often then not used by law enforcements to enable them to get a search warrant on one's home...

This true... I've been trying to google this for some time now, and so far have found one search result saying that "'Mylar filters' block infrared radiation almost completely"

Just want to get some more minds on this subject...

Granted...I'm still going to go out and buy some Mylar/Space Blankets and line the inside of my cab with it for sure, just incase this is true then I'm covered Literally hehe

PS>>> I am still going to be doing some more searching on this right now and will post back with anymore info I found. This might provent some headaches in the future for some people...

Ex: Electric company ratting you out about suspicious electric scheduals, 5-O starts watching your house, they use some inferred on your house, If this true they should see nothing out of the ordinary.

EDIT>>>
READ BELOW FOR EXACT INFORMATION ON INFERRED PROTECTION!!

OK Iv been reading for the past 3 hours on this inferred masking stuff and I feel very knowledgable on the subject now. My 3rd or something post on this first page explains A LOT that is very helpful.. But here are 2 links that I got all my information from.

I suggest you spent the time to read the first 7-10 pages of this thread(1st link below.)

This is also a good place thats is pretty straight up and how to Reduce your heat signature(2nd link below)

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/mari...3-reducing-heat-signature-your-operation.html

http://www.onlinepot.org/misc/hidefromflair.htm

first and foremost, I am not saying that your entire post is garbage, because it's not.
you have a lot of good information for the security paranoid individuals.

But, one point of yours really bugged me because its not correct (at least all the research i've done hasn't proven your statement)

you said
Quote:
...How the hell does the military happen to see through walls to give a body count when a raid team is about to enter a room full of unsuspecting "enemys" ?


this is completely incorrect based on the way FLIR works.

Liam was correct in that FLIR measures SURFACE TEMPERATURE.

That is all FLIR measures, its all it can measure, and if it were able to literally "see through walls" it would be violating so many different physics/math/science laws.

the FLIR camera is a Passive device. this means that it can only sense what is being radiated from whatever its pointed at (aka the surface of the house)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermography
(go to limitations - "ability to only measure surface temperature)

Don't believe me?

check this:

http://www.flirthermography.com/suc..._image_list.asp
(at the bottom there is a drop down, choose law enforcement)

here is one of them


notice that the FLIR camera does NOT see through the foliage of the tree, and is only picking up parts of the suspect that are NOT concealed by the foliage.

Fact: it is theoretically impossible to see through solid objects using a passive device.
(that I am aware of; note that an X-ray machine can see through solid objects, but thats because it's an active device)

 

[Guest]

infared "sees" the heat signature of your house, it doesnt see though walls, watch your exhaust air

 

[Military]

Thanks pseudo krypto,,, My setup is only a CAB.. I know i might be over reacting COMPLETELY.. and I only run a 400watt HPS and MH one at a time. And my exhaust from my CAB is just straight into the ROOM that the CAB is in, and that room temps are about 5-10'F lower then then inside the CAB. So that air is cooled really fast then that entire room has an exhaust fan in the window(one of those 2 fan ones with intake/exhaust option) so theres always air moving. I know I might be over reacting... BUT

inferred CAN see through walls... because it can see people in buildings and what not. I know military very well and they use it to tell how many people are in any which room they might be raiding... So why couldn't it see my warm ass CAB... I know i might be over reacting... Just think about it though lol

_______________________________________________________________________
But just recently I just heard of someone getting busted a few cities from me.

He had 6 plants... they charged him for 2lbs PER PLANT!!! Ya thats right, they charged him for how much each plant "COULD POTENTIALLY" produce.. Kinda fucking retarded if you ask me. But I think he had ... 3-4; 1000watt HPS's...

His Electric company reported him I guess, not sure what they said, if it was maybe an odd pattern they noticed all of a sudden or maybe he was stealing electricity or I don't know, but they "TOLD ON HIM" needless to say.

Then the 5-O used IR scanned to get the search warrant, then bam... he got caught.
_______________________________________________________________________


But This is what Iv found so far about how to keep yourself protected heat wise... very good read not gona lie.
_______________________________________________________________________
Infrared cameras are widely used by law enforcement for border patrol, grow room confirmation, and other surveillance operations. There is legal debate as to whether this technology is intrusive or non-invasive.

Growers fear IR because it?s difficult to ?hide? invisible heat. Protecting yourself against excessive heat emissions is a good defensive measure. This FAQ focuses on masking heat emissions.

What is infrared?
Light and heat energy warm objects, which then re-radiate excess energy. Some of this excess energy is emitted as low-energy infrared. IR is invisible to the naked eye, but can be displayed and measured by specialized cameras.

What does Leo look for?
Officers are trained to look for hot spots on walls and windows, unusually warm foundations, exhaust emissions from vents and chimneys, and warming trends typical of marijuana grow operations. Leo will wait until evening or early morning (when the grow is up to full temperature and the air is cool). He will also look for light leaks, smells and other info at this time.

Note: Leo will try to image a suspected grow-op from all angles, but is only legally able to do so from public property (ie. Sidewalks, roads, public paths, etc).

Note: power companies occasionally image power pole transformers to see if they are abnormally hot (problems), and to source power theft.

Legal implications
(ExpensiveCloset) "A thermal imaging scan does not intrude in any way into the privacy and sanctity of a home?the privacy associated with a home, are (not) threatened by thermal imagery." (US supreme court ruling)

"The Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 on June 11 [2001] that police cannot use infrared heat-detecting technology to gather evidence from a private home without a search warrant" High Times, October 2001 (Pg.20)

In Canada, IR is used in the pre-investigation phase. Positive results can then be used to obtain a search warrant.

Will Insulation help?
Conventional insulation will help block IR, but it is probably not enough by itself. A fully insulated wall (R 40) will hold heat much longer than a window (R 2). Concrete is a good conductor of heat; after hours of HID lighting, foundations will become abnormally warm.

Most growers flower at night to take advantage of the naturally cooler air; unfortunately, a warm grow house will radiate lots of thermal energy compared to the cool night air.

How do I mask my heat emissions?
Note: Small grows (under 2000w) would probably not emit enough heat to warrant the effort or expense.

Note: Reducing grow room temperature will reduce heat emissions; however, the grow room will still be warmer than surrounding basement rooms.

This technique creates a false wall to contain cold air. Interlocking rigid foam panels prevent hot grow room air from contacting and warming house walls. Cold air is blown into the gap between the foam and the walls for maximum protection. The wall?s exterior will appear ?cold? to an IR camera, indicating a negative for internal heat.

· "Partial room" (insulate exposed walls only)
· "Room in a room" (entire rooms are insulated)

*Floor. Concrete foundations absorb heat readily. Build a sub floor to raise the entire grow off the floor.

*Walls. Use interlocking 1.5 or 2? foam insulation along all exposed walls. Place the insulation 1-4? away from walls, fit foam panels from floor to ceiling (some cutting may be required), and blow cold air into the gap. Seal seams and corners with tape. Cover walls with Mylar to reflect heat back into the room.

*Windows. Windows are essentially uninsulated, so you must fill the gap with insulation. Draw the curtains/blinds, add black poly behind, then add insulation.

Drawing description
A ? Public property that Leo can image from

B ? Internal basement room. Grow room heat will still be noticeable, and this side needs protection.

C -- ?Safe? basement rooms. Put ballasts and reservoir outside to minimize heat

D ? Partially insulated growroom. The pink band is the interlocking foam insulation, the blue band is the cold air contained between the insulation and the house walls. The window on the bottom of the picture can be open to allow cold air to enter the air gap. Room temperature air can also be blown in from an adjacent basement room through a hole in the foam panels.

Hiding the Exhaust
Safely exhausting hot air is difficult; Leo looks for unusual heat emissions coming from opened windows, chimneys, dryer vents and other handy places. Note: running exhaust to outside sheds, barns and tree stumps is well known to Leo.

Exhaust down the sewer Every house has a sewer vent standpipe. By venting down the sewer, the exhaust will be chilled and smell is distributed amongst you and your neighbors. The sewer cleanout access is often a 3-way 4? abs ?T? with a threaded cap somewhere in the basement. Remove cap, and hook your blower to the T (A 4? to 3? adapter funnel may be required) and run blower 24/7. This will not affect normal use of the sewer

Cool exhaust with water
Place a wet towel (wicking water from a tray underneath) partially over the end of the exhaust. Spraying water inside the exhaust pipe works as well.

Underground exhaust
Running the exhaust through a long, buried pipe helps to cool the air. Perimeter drains can be used for this.

Water-cooled lights
Running water cooled lights is very effective; IR heat from the lights are washed down the drain. Water cooled light systems are currently difficult to source, and have drawbacks including cost, condensation and leaks.

Tools for the grower:
Note: most ?night vision? devices use UV (ultraviolet) and not longwave IR detection.

Engine heat ?guns?. +/- 1F. Numerical readout, laser pointer.
"Night Vision" scopes, cameras and camcorders.
Infrared film (Kodak High Speed Infrared Film 2481)
Reply With Quote

 

[Military]

ok I think i got it

Metal is an excellent reflector of infrared as well as visible light. Reflective metal film is a common and effective component of controlling attic temperatures, especially in energy efficient housing designs. A reflective metal surface is a valid and effective component of an insulating system used for masking the infra red signature of your room.

Metal film will reflect the infrared light/energy that strikes it back into the room instead of allowing it to strike an exterior wall of the structure within which the grow is located. However, metal is also an excellent conductor of heat energy and if the heat that is accumulating in the room is not then eliminated, the metal itself will then re-radiate that heat-- so metal film alone is not an effective means of blocking the IR signature, but if you don't use any reflective metal film, you are foolishly eliminating a very effective and economical material from your heat camouflaging arsenal. Of the means by which you judge the expertise of advisors you choose to heed, perhaps font size ought not be primary. And no metal will magnify or amplify the over all heat signature- the controversy of hotspots, notwithstanding )

Highly reflective metal film is an economical inner layer for the interior surfaces of the room in that you will get the benefit of reflecting both the IR and visible light back into the room-the latter beneficial for maximizing your lighting watts. But as has been said, (sort of) a means of insulating against re-radiance by the metal film must also be accommodated.

An insulating layer outside the reflective metal film is often the most realistic approach in this instance-- Air, foam or fiberglass are all effective materials for this insulation layer- air being the trickiest to properly implement. But all materials have some emissivity and will eventually warm to the ambient temps of the room and keeping the interior temps as close as possible to the ambient temperature of the overall structure is also important in preventing the room from having a distinctive heat signature that stands out under IR surveillance.

My approach has always been to locate the room centrally in the basement, line the interior with double layer metal film sandwiching a thin insulating layer ( Ie Reflectix film) , using fiberglass batts to insulate the overall room, and finally, use controlled exhaust to continuously remove the warm air and discharge it in an innocuous manner-- such as a fake dryer vent, or PVC simulated furnace or water heater exhaust. (it was mentioned in that article excerpt that dryer vents and chimneys are inspected as suspicious by LEO- that would tag every building in the country-- I don't buy it. Furthermore, sewer pipes are always vented through the roof and very little warm air should be expected to be exhausting from a roof vent stack-- there should either be no movement or air being drawn in when there is drainage occurring- I'm not so sure that is a good approach for minimizing suspect IR signature. I'd certainly choose a chimney or dryer vent before my sewer pipe-- in fact-- I did!.)

Researching energy efficient construction techniques is a good way to learn more about heat transfer and effective insulation techniques. Claims made in 48 point font may require the most skepticism.

 

[Guest]

my bad,
informative thread military<
one thing i dont think you pointed out is im pretty sure that infared only works at night so have your big lights on during the day and your a ok
peace

 

[Bermyboy]

I don't think a 400w grow or even 1000w grow would give of any kind of signature. Remember computers throw off a lot of heat as does large fish tanks and even 1500w space heaters and Irons for clothing!

 

[yamaha_1fan]

The state of Oregon has decided that just cause you have an indoor grow, doesnt mean you are growing cannibis and is not probable cause for a warrant

Needless to say, many people enjoy the art of indoor gardening, raising roses, bonsai trees, cacti, and all sorts of plants which the government has not yet declared illegal. Recognizing the fact that indoor gardens might be entirely innocuous courts have required some evidence that the plant being raised is Cannabis prior to issuing a search warrant. Numerous cases teach that without some evidence that the gardener is growing Cannabis specifically, all the evidence in the world that the person merely has an indoor garden is insufficient grounds for a search warrant.

In one 1993 case, for example, the search warrant stated the following factors in an attempt to establish probable cause that Arthur Russell was growing Cannabis in a shed on his property: (1) an electric bill averaging around $150 a month, when people with houses twice as large in the same neighborhood used only about $50 of electricity per month; (2) the observation of a large vent fan on the shed wall, similar to ones the officer had previously seen to cool sheds where marijuana was growing; (3) the observation of a sprinkler on the roof of the shed, which the officer believed had the effect of further cooling the shed; (4) observation of bright light escaping through a crack in the shed wall on evenings when the officer had reason to believe that no one was in the shed; (5) Mr. Russell had arranged to read his own electric meter; and (6) he kept an aggressive dog.
An Oregon court held that the above information was insufficient to establish probable cause to believe that Mr. Russell was growing Cannabis, as opposed to some other plant, in his shed. As the court observed: "Taking the unchallenged information as a whole, a magistrate could, perhaps, conjecture that defendant was growing something in his shed. However . . . from that information alone, a reasonable magistrate could not infer that defendant was probably growing marijuana." (State v. Russell [Or. App. 1993] 857 P.2d 220.)

 

[Military]

Very interesting yamaha_1fan good to know Maybe thats held up in the rest of the states but I dont know.. lol.


pseudo krypto- ... "Infrared" Definition below.
Infrared (IR) radiation is electromagnetic radiation of a wavelength longer than that of visible light, but shorter than that of microwaves. The name means "below red" (from the Latin infra, "below"), red being the color of visible light with the longest wavelength. Infrared radiation has wavelengths between about 750 nm and 1 mm, spanning five orders of magnitude. Humans at normal body temperature can radiate at a wavelength of 10 microns.

Infrared imaging is used extensively for both military and civilian purposes. Military applications include target acquisition, surveillance, night vision, homing and tracking. Non-military uses include thermal efficiency analysis, remote temperature sensing, short-ranged wireless communication, spectroscopy, and weather forecasting. Infrared astronomy uses sensor-equipped telescopes to penetrate dusty regions of space, such as molecular clouds; detect cool objects such as planets, and to view highly red-shifted objects from the early days of the universe.

Night or day has nothing to do with infrared dude. The reason they are usually performed at nighttime or early morning hours is because the OUTSIDE air is much cooler then it is in the day time.. SO in turn you will get a more accurate reading from the IR device or camera.

 

[Dr Seuss]

Very interesting yamaha_1fan good to know Maybe thats held up in the rest of the states but I dont know.. lol.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2000/2000_99_8508/

It's a federal law, part of the 4th amendment in-fact. If you haven't done anything to warrant them using infrared, it can't warrant a search.

In my area the police have openly said they get together with the city owned power company to look at usage based on the sq.ft. of your house...

 

[Military]

Nice thanks man for adding to the information ..

I think a Mod should sticky this in a security section somewhere, but leave the LINK here so people can see it.. Also change the title of it to like "Infrared Preventions and Information" Would be great.

What you guys think... this worthy for a sticky?


Im personally going to be documenting how Im going to be IR proofing my current CAB, even though its going to have a 400watter HPS/MH bulb in there but still... always nice to have 100% piece of mind

 

[Liam]

FLIR cameras see SURFACE TEMPERATURE, paper would be just as effective as mylar.

 

[Military]

FLIR cameras see SURFACE TEMPERATURE, paper would be just as effective as mylar.

Post has been edited by MYSELF(military) for that I have stated false information... My regards go to LIAM for the above statement is true to an extent... But I dont have current facts to justify that there are IR devices that can see through the passive walls of a house... So its still good to take the right precautions..

Doesn't hurt to have over-kill on your security

Good Day

 

[tenfeetofganja]

honestly, I wouldnt bother. you really think police are going to do all that survaillance and manpower to bust someone with a couple plants under a 400w in a cabinet???


I HIGHly doubt it... they need something to write to the papers about!


whats that phrase they always saying..?


.....BIG MONEY .. BIG MONEY ... BIG MONEY...NO WHAMMY!

 

[Mt Toaker]

About two years ago there was a bill passed banning IR scanning in Michigan saying that it was illegal search. I heard that they still use it and get a search warrant on an "anonymous" tip. Good to know about the mylar though. The only time I grew I used tinfoil, yes I know this isn't the perfected material, and lined the walls with it. I read some of what you said and you stated that metal is a good blocker for IR scanning, so would tinfoil, being metal, also be a good blocker of IR scanning?

 

[Military]

EDIT>>> sorry just re-read some of this and I noticed I really wasn't paying attention and its a "choppy" read lol. So just bare with me

tenfeetofganja- dude lol Not to be an ass or anything.. But you kinda didnt see the point of this thread did you.. Read the title, I made this thread more to inform people... for those who have their LARGE scale grows, know what I mean? I know my little 2x MH/HPS 400watters and only having one on at a time, are not going to trigger anything and create police man power to surveillance my house dude lol. I made this for the BIGGER PICTURE To teach people how to get past the IR scans JUST FOR PIECE OF MIND...

Im my next grow im completely redoing my CAB and Ill be documenting exactly how I myself will be IR proofing my little 400watt CAB... Which can in turn be done the exact same way for larger scale grows.. just would need more material. Also its just nice to know that you got just another thing blocked that they cant get you with They being the 5-O

Mt Toaker- Well as long as you insulated behind the tinfoil then yes it would be effective.. The Key is to have BOTH a metal material and insulation working together to hold in heat/light and block heat from warming outside walls, or the walls of your cab..

See mylar is designed to REFLECT heat.. but it also just happens to reflect light as well if you have the silver shinny kind of course, but was originally invented to reflect heat. And was used in space stations and First Aid kits.. Eg: SPACE BLANKET. So using this as your surface material that the light hits, with good insulation behind it.. would make it impossible for the heat to travel through the mylar and warm up the walls or your CAB... or Grow Room..

But grow rooms would need a bit more insulations since there size.. and it would be best to have that AIR gap or eg: FALSE WALL with the air space between the false wall and house wall.


But ya I posted all the info that one would need to IR proof their home

 

[green_tea]

first and foremost, I am not saying that your entire post is garbage, because it's not.
you have a lot of good information for the security paranoid individuals.

But, one point of yours really bugged me because its not correct (at least all the research i've done hasn't proven your statement)

you said

...How the hell does the military happen to see through walls to give a body count when a raid team is about to enter a room full of unsuspecting "enemys" ?

this is completely incorrect based on the way FLIR works.

Liam was correct in that FLIR measures SURFACE TEMPERATURE.

That is all FLIR measures, its all it can measure, and if it were able to literally "see through walls" it would be violating so many different physics/math/science laws.

the FLIR camera is a Passive device. this means that it can only sense what is being radiated from whatever its pointed at (aka the surface of the house)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermography
(go to limitations - "ability to only measure surface temperature)

Don't believe me?

check this:

http://www.flirthermography.com/success/ir_image_list.asp
(at the bottom there is a drop down, choose law enforcement)

here is one of them

notice that the FLIR camera does NOT see through the foliage of the tree, and is only picking up parts of the suspect that are NOT concealed by the foliage.

Fact: it is theoretically impossible to see through solid objects using a passive device.
(that I am aware of; note that an X-ray machine can see through solid objects, but thats because it's an active device)

 

[Military]

hum very nice info, thank you for correcting me, and my greatest regards go to Liam.



BUT.. There are different types if IR devices..As your WIKI link state in the first sentence. FLIR isnt the only one and I know FLIR is one of the more 'newer' of them though... BUT this is what I know off top of my head and Im not looking at any research to support this single post here...

BUT maybe I was thinking of an X-ray style IR device.. that would have to see through the "wall/object" in order to detect the heat signitures from human bodys...

OR this it just plan old hollywood.. I wouldnt doubt it and I wouldnt feel bad if it is and I was thinking of this all alone... O well

So hum... Ill add your post to my main page for sure to update the info .. Thanks man
SMOKE ON

 

[libby]

hum very nice info, thank you for correcting me, and my greatest regards go to Liam.



BUT.. There are different types if IR devices..As your WIKI link state in the first sentence. FLIR isnt the only one and I know FLIR is one of the more 'newer' of them though... BUT this is what I know off top of my head and Im not looking at any research to support this single post here...

BUT maybe I was thinking of an X-ray style IR device.. that would have to see through the "wall/object" in order to detect the heat signitures from human bodys...

OR this it just plan old hollywood.. I wouldnt doubt it and I wouldnt feel bad if it is and I was thinking of this all alone... O well

So hum... Ill add your post to my main page for sure to update the info .. Thanks man
SMOKE ON

serious case of paranioa paranoia paranaio

 

[Military]

libby-... wtf you talking about.. You didnt read anything beside my last post dude.. This is a informative thread man... Maybe read so your informed as well lol. Im far from paranoid dude. Im safe thats what I am

 

[Guest]

thats what i thought,
and i looked it up in jorge cervates grow bible-
flower during the day when the infared isnt effective
good thread soldier