Kush Technician
Member
How long has this problem been going on? Since two weeks or less from sprouting (since the beginning of April, 2009)
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) Hand-watered coco coir in various size containers, some 16oz cups, others are 5-1/2" square containers, and others still are 1 gallons or so, round
What STRAIN are you growing? A few of each Pure Kush, Bubba Kush, ChemxOG feminised, OG Kush, 2 Blueberry feminised, Sky Walker feminised, and 1 Lion's Piss.
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) All seeds, all of which germinated in about 24hrs, so they were healthy for sure. However, the PK, BK and OG were quite old.
What is the age of your plants? mostly 2 months, some are about 3 weeks younger
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) Since the paper towels they germ'd in, 2 months ago
How tall are the plants? from 6 inches to about 10 inches, incredibly stunted
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? seedling for some, others are mature veg state
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Botanicare bagged Coco Coir
What is the Water temperature? about 72F
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? Usually they start out white and thinck, but end up brown and die
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) Canna coco A+B and Canna Rhizotonic left over from last year, but still not expired as per bottled date
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Have used everything from straight ph'd 5.8-6.0 RO (ppm < 50) to straight ph'd tap to mixes of both with ppm at <50 up to 1200 ppm
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) Started once a day, then up to twice when I figured they were drinking more, after seeing signs of deficiencies
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) With every watering, mostly very low ppm (250-450 ppm) to keep concentraion and build-up down, due to more frequent waterings
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? Have not flowered, because of the current problems
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) lower pH a bit to my RO, then canna Rhizo, then canna coco A, then canna coco B, shaking/stiring in between each. No pH adjustment needed, or very little ph down before the other ingredients
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? Using Hanna meters, I get to about 5.8 pH and for tds, really don't know what to give them, but try for about 1ml A+B/liter and .5ml Rhizo/liter and this gives me about 500 ppm. Have never used the meters before, and everything always worked out very easily, so maybe I'm doing something different this time that is unfavorable for the plants?
What is the pH of the "Tank"? No reservoir, just mix up solution every watering usually, since I have been playing around with different strengths as none of the syptoms seems to respond each watering. Also, I drain to waste.
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? No. Hydro store guy was sure, though... Also, hanna meters have a little portion of the LED screen dedicated to showing "cal" if the meters are calibrated. My meters say "cal."
When was your last watering? This morning, and I have been watering once a day for now, since noticing the brown roots/lack of normal amount of roots (usually would have needed to transplanted a long time ago after about three weeks in a 16oz cup, at most)
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) Been changing it almost every watering since noticing problems with my original (but tried and true) fert schedule, which was about 1.5ml A+B each and .5ml Rhizo in each liter of 60% RO/40% tap water.
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? I have tried flushing everything several times, and then tried adding cal/mag to all RO since I was seeing big time phosphorous, sulfer, iron, zinc, calcium and magnesium deficiencies (all on different plants, simultaneously)
What size bulb are you using? 1000w mh
What is the distance to the canopy? switching between 2 and 3 feet, keep reading different opinions on this, but I think its not too hot by doing the back of the hand test.
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? Dunno
What is the canopy temperature? between 72F and 78F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) as high as 78F and low, must be below 70 but not much. Tonight's outside low temp will be about 60F so temps in the room may reach as low as that.
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) Just blasting the house ac, and its obviously a closed system. I have a boz fan blowin on the plants and radiant heat has not been an issue, though the ac needed adjustment to keep thermostat at correct level. Have no clue what CFM, but should this matter, as it's not a small, enclosed space that would require ventilation for heat dissipation? I just periodically though out the day open the door for new air.
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? From the house's central air, which has been re-ducted with a huge ac compressor. I have the blower on almost all day, and turn it off for part of the night, when it is kind of loud. Otherwise, it just constantly mixes up the air in the house, and ac turns on when needed for temps.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? I don't use the tap as it was having weird effects on the plants i think. It is hard, about 300+ ppm. One thing is weird, that I used to always use tap water that was even harder, at 550ppm and about 8.2 or higher pH, and had the healthiest plants I have ever seen. Wondering if this house has old pipes with a weird or detrimental composition of TDS as compared to the previous location's tap water.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Only RO at the moment.
Are you using water from a water softener? No. Looked for one of these, not sure if it would be hidden under the house in the crawl space, since they need to be serviced periodically, right?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? I have been cloning the Skywalkers and og, which were looking the healthiest, and I topped the blueberry, and some others like the ChemOG. Since the plants are mostly all stunted, the pinched/fim'd plants are not reacting the way they should, and instead are even more stunted.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? none.
Are plant's infected with pest's? No. well, maybe by now, pythium, but I dunno it's diagnosis, since I have only heard/read about the possibility of it in coco.
The main problem started out looking like very white yellow new groiwth, not just the yellow that is normal with the young growth tip, but the actual whole, mature leaves at the very top being complety chlorotic. I have never seen this type of symptom, so I read all the info in Stitch's sticky. It looked like maybe zinc or sulfur deficiency. The nutes I use have all the good macro and micro elements, so I didn't really thing it was the mix, but more likely the coco substrate. I didn't flush the botanicare bagged coco, since I never have before, and the bag says steam-rinsed. This is why I buy the bagged stuff, since it is pre-flushed.
Well, on this run I started off using a 50/50 mix of tap and ro from the machines outside of grocery stores. Now I have an ro unit, but would like to use a mix of tap and ro. Here is where I am totally confused. At the previous location, one with brand new copper pipes installed, I used the 60/40 mix of ro to tap, and even sometimes 100% tap, since the plants would sometimes need extra calcium and magnesium, by my diagnosis. This always worked great for me.
Now, when I water with the mix, it seems to not be good for the plants as they show signs of burn and lockout, and deficiency all at the same time. So then I switch to all ro but I see huge mag/cal deficiencies. Wen I go back to tap/ro mix, I see white salt buildup on leaves, sides of pots, and trays like you wouldn't believe, so this thing is just driving me nuts.
I still have the stunted growth, pale new growth/lack of new growth, twisted leaves, phosphorous def. as in purple and red stems, and pale yellow lower leaves wiht necrotic patches or just completely burning and falling off yellow leaves at the bottom. THis is making me want to toss everything to the trash and start over, but I know the plants are still salvageable, and I have spent 2 months here, just don't want to repeat the same effed results.
Please let me know if you need any more info, and, please HELP ME!!
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) Hand-watered coco coir in various size containers, some 16oz cups, others are 5-1/2" square containers, and others still are 1 gallons or so, round
What STRAIN are you growing? A few of each Pure Kush, Bubba Kush, ChemxOG feminised, OG Kush, 2 Blueberry feminised, Sky Walker feminised, and 1 Lion's Piss.
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) All seeds, all of which germinated in about 24hrs, so they were healthy for sure. However, the PK, BK and OG were quite old.
What is the age of your plants? mostly 2 months, some are about 3 weeks younger
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) Since the paper towels they germ'd in, 2 months ago
How tall are the plants? from 6 inches to about 10 inches, incredibly stunted
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? seedling for some, others are mature veg state
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Botanicare bagged Coco Coir
What is the Water temperature? about 72F
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? Usually they start out white and thinck, but end up brown and die
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) Canna coco A+B and Canna Rhizotonic left over from last year, but still not expired as per bottled date
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Have used everything from straight ph'd 5.8-6.0 RO (ppm < 50) to straight ph'd tap to mixes of both with ppm at <50 up to 1200 ppm
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) Started once a day, then up to twice when I figured they were drinking more, after seeing signs of deficiencies
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) With every watering, mostly very low ppm (250-450 ppm) to keep concentraion and build-up down, due to more frequent waterings
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? Have not flowered, because of the current problems
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) lower pH a bit to my RO, then canna Rhizo, then canna coco A, then canna coco B, shaking/stiring in between each. No pH adjustment needed, or very little ph down before the other ingredients
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? Using Hanna meters, I get to about 5.8 pH and for tds, really don't know what to give them, but try for about 1ml A+B/liter and .5ml Rhizo/liter and this gives me about 500 ppm. Have never used the meters before, and everything always worked out very easily, so maybe I'm doing something different this time that is unfavorable for the plants?
What is the pH of the "Tank"? No reservoir, just mix up solution every watering usually, since I have been playing around with different strengths as none of the syptoms seems to respond each watering. Also, I drain to waste.
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? No. Hydro store guy was sure, though... Also, hanna meters have a little portion of the LED screen dedicated to showing "cal" if the meters are calibrated. My meters say "cal."
When was your last watering? This morning, and I have been watering once a day for now, since noticing the brown roots/lack of normal amount of roots (usually would have needed to transplanted a long time ago after about three weeks in a 16oz cup, at most)
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) Been changing it almost every watering since noticing problems with my original (but tried and true) fert schedule, which was about 1.5ml A+B each and .5ml Rhizo in each liter of 60% RO/40% tap water.
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? I have tried flushing everything several times, and then tried adding cal/mag to all RO since I was seeing big time phosphorous, sulfer, iron, zinc, calcium and magnesium deficiencies (all on different plants, simultaneously)
What size bulb are you using? 1000w mh
What is the distance to the canopy? switching between 2 and 3 feet, keep reading different opinions on this, but I think its not too hot by doing the back of the hand test.
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? Dunno
What is the canopy temperature? between 72F and 78F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) as high as 78F and low, must be below 70 but not much. Tonight's outside low temp will be about 60F so temps in the room may reach as low as that.
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) Just blasting the house ac, and its obviously a closed system. I have a boz fan blowin on the plants and radiant heat has not been an issue, though the ac needed adjustment to keep thermostat at correct level. Have no clue what CFM, but should this matter, as it's not a small, enclosed space that would require ventilation for heat dissipation? I just periodically though out the day open the door for new air.
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? From the house's central air, which has been re-ducted with a huge ac compressor. I have the blower on almost all day, and turn it off for part of the night, when it is kind of loud. Otherwise, it just constantly mixes up the air in the house, and ac turns on when needed for temps.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? I don't use the tap as it was having weird effects on the plants i think. It is hard, about 300+ ppm. One thing is weird, that I used to always use tap water that was even harder, at 550ppm and about 8.2 or higher pH, and had the healthiest plants I have ever seen. Wondering if this house has old pipes with a weird or detrimental composition of TDS as compared to the previous location's tap water.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Only RO at the moment.
Are you using water from a water softener? No. Looked for one of these, not sure if it would be hidden under the house in the crawl space, since they need to be serviced periodically, right?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? I have been cloning the Skywalkers and og, which were looking the healthiest, and I topped the blueberry, and some others like the ChemOG. Since the plants are mostly all stunted, the pinched/fim'd plants are not reacting the way they should, and instead are even more stunted.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? none.
Are plant's infected with pest's? No. well, maybe by now, pythium, but I dunno it's diagnosis, since I have only heard/read about the possibility of it in coco.
The main problem started out looking like very white yellow new groiwth, not just the yellow that is normal with the young growth tip, but the actual whole, mature leaves at the very top being complety chlorotic. I have never seen this type of symptom, so I read all the info in Stitch's sticky. It looked like maybe zinc or sulfur deficiency. The nutes I use have all the good macro and micro elements, so I didn't really thing it was the mix, but more likely the coco substrate. I didn't flush the botanicare bagged coco, since I never have before, and the bag says steam-rinsed. This is why I buy the bagged stuff, since it is pre-flushed.
Well, on this run I started off using a 50/50 mix of tap and ro from the machines outside of grocery stores. Now I have an ro unit, but would like to use a mix of tap and ro. Here is where I am totally confused. At the previous location, one with brand new copper pipes installed, I used the 60/40 mix of ro to tap, and even sometimes 100% tap, since the plants would sometimes need extra calcium and magnesium, by my diagnosis. This always worked great for me.
Now, when I water with the mix, it seems to not be good for the plants as they show signs of burn and lockout, and deficiency all at the same time. So then I switch to all ro but I see huge mag/cal deficiencies. Wen I go back to tap/ro mix, I see white salt buildup on leaves, sides of pots, and trays like you wouldn't believe, so this thing is just driving me nuts.
I still have the stunted growth, pale new growth/lack of new growth, twisted leaves, phosphorous def. as in purple and red stems, and pale yellow lower leaves wiht necrotic patches or just completely burning and falling off yellow leaves at the bottom. THis is making me want to toss everything to the trash and start over, but I know the plants are still salvageable, and I have spent 2 months here, just don't want to repeat the same effed results.
Please let me know if you need any more info, and, please HELP ME!!
