My OBBT Bucket Build

[xmobotx]

What's going on?

I finally got the medium mixed and in the buckets. I ended up doing it like this:
- 5gals Coco Coir Mulch (the big block from Ace Hardware)
- 2.5gals Ready-Gro
- 2.5gals Enriched Sphagnum Peat
- 1 bail of long fiber Sphagnum Peat
- 5gals Mushroom Compost/EC's
- 5gals Vermiculite/Perlite

The amendments are as follows:
- 2cups Plant-Tone
- 2cups Blood Meal
- 1cup Bone Meal
- 1/3cup Starter

I added Cal/Mag Plus & Maxicrop to my RO/DI water and fired everything up. Now I'll just kick back and wait, hoping I've crossed all my "t's" and dotted all my "i's".

hey ROOTS! I like the apparent sophistication of your system -esp your means of keeping the bulk of your oxygen within the medium

I'm concerned whether you're allowing your medium to "cook?" w/ ammendments and the like, it will be too hot initially.

I sse that you've implemented a method to water direct to the res - I'm finding this is fairly important w/ this method particularly when one wants to "flush" as it is easy to end up w/ too soggy of medium

Hey Rogg - could this be an issue w/ your PH problem? w/ coco, it wants to go acid as it dries then alkaline when wetter

IDK dont get me wrong but I read how you are working at the PH issue and wondered if there's not a little too much moisture?

BTW, I'm finding my PH tends to drift up as well but it's going from like 6.4 to 6.6 - could be innacuracy w/ my device too

 

[rrog]

XMO my system is quite moist. I have a LOT of moist air pumped up and it's always moist just under surface. Good thought, tough.

 

[ROOTZ]

WOW ROOTZ! Where did you find those air diffusers????

Hey rrog, the air diffusers are here: http://www.jehmco.com/
I believe they are designed for very large fish stock aquariums and ponds.

hey ROOTS! I like the apparent sophistication of your system -esp your means of keeping the bulk of your oxygen within the medium

I'm concerned whether you're allowing your medium to "cook?" w/ ammendments and the like, it will be too hot initially.

I sse that you've implemented a method to water direct to the res - I'm finding this is fairly important w/ this method particularly when one wants to "flush" as it is easy to end up w/ too soggy of medium

Thanks xmobotx.. I really wanted to keep the lower portion of the OBBT bucket as sealed as possible. rrog stated that he didn't see any out gassing from his bucket set up so I may have over-engineered a bit.

So you think I mixed up my ammendments a bit too hot?? This was a main concern of mine!!
I figured that: with the addition of supporting the bacterial/fungi ecosystem this concept of grow allows, I could let everything "sorta" balance itself out. However, I do realize that I can not be solely dependent or expect the system to be totally self-sufficient.

Here's a funny "what-if": Add a little bit of grass seed to the medium and allow the the system to become biologically stable before throwing in our plants. Hell, we have a 1-2 week incubation window to play with. Eventually, the needs of a cannabis plant in flower will dominate the needs of "sacrificial" grass. It's sort of like throwing gold fish in your aquarium to establish a biological profile before introducing your prized specimen(s)

 

[rrog]

Thanks Rootz. Will look at the possibility of those in the next build.

Regarding amendments, it's good to let the system bubble for a week or two before inserting plants. Your grass analogy offers the time needed to cool the system down, but not thinking you need the grass to "extract" the hot stuff. The N levels will stabilize soon enough on its own.

 

[ROOTZ]

Hey rrog, the air diffusers are here: http://www.jehmco.com/

Sorry rrog could've been a lil more specific. Here ya go: http://www.jehmco.com/html/air_diffusers.html

 

[xmobotx]

Hey rrog, the air diffusers are here: http://www.jehmco.com/
I believe they are designed for very large fish stock aquariums and ponds.



Thanks xmobotx.. I really wanted to keep the lower portion of the OBBT bucket as sealed as possible. rrog stated that he didn't see any out gassing from his bucket set up so I may have over-engineered a bit.

i think it has a cool star wars/sci-fi vibe

So you think I mixed up my ammendments a bit too hot?? This was a main concern of mine!!
No, i dont think they are mixed hot (i.e. too much ferts) - if you just mixed them, they need time to moderate some people say a month or more. the process of moderating is basically like composting. I only did a couple weeks
I figured that: with the addition of supporting the bacterial/fungi ecosystem this concept of grow allows, I could let everything "sorta" balance itself out. However, I do realize that I can not be solely dependent or expect the system to be totally self-sufficient.

Here's a funny "what-if": Add a little bit of grass seed to the medium and allow the the system to become biologically stable before throwing in our plants. Hell, we have a 1-2 week incubation window to play with. Eventually, the needs of a cannabis plant in flower will dominate the needs of "sacrificial" grass. It's sort of like throwing gold fish in your aquarium to establish a biological profile before introducing your prized specimen(s)
that's kinda what i m doing w/ th corns (and moderating the mix i guess) kinda sounds like having a few extra roots might help the michorrizha beat out that trich fungus that grows on the surface

 

[rrog]

I have a small infestation of gnats. I'd like to make it smaller. How can I do this and protect the micro-herd?

Ripper, how's your gnat population doing?

 

[xmobotx]

I have a small infestation of gnats. I'd like to make it smaller. How can I do this and protect the micro-herd?

Ripper, how's your gnat population doing?

maybe sticky traps?

 

[RipVanWeed]

Been making a concerted effort to keep the top of the pots dry(nonOBBT).

I pulled everything out of the garden and sprayed vegging plants with SM90 and Neem...very weak mix. I did this primarily for some signs of mold. Then I sprayed the top of the medium, This is to discourage gnats. These measures knocked 'em down pretty good. I'm comfortable applying to the top of the OBBT's if the problem resumes. The weak solution is no danger to the biolife below.

Much Respect,

 

[nine7oh]

That side by side was the same strain and had only the following differences: obbt was topped once because it was getting too tall for the grow canopy, obbt had slightly more medium when including reservoir volume, but not a whole lot. Both pretty much the same feeding schedule and both were fed expired bloom ferts and got all burnt - so stunted equally ha! I'll have to grab a pic of the 2.0 buckets that were vegging for a few months and currently blooming... bushes!! I can't get my soil ones that big, the growth reminds me a lot of when I used to mess around with hydro.

Rootz - yea that round air stone thing would be ideal but its expensive!!

rrog - I had a ton of gnats and about a few thousand swirling - burt to a crisp bodies in the 1000w hood by the time I decided it had gotten ridiculous. I neem oil the shit out of everything in the room, foliar spray anything green from the top and bottom, I also watered all the soils with a neem treatment. That doesn't really kill them but slows them down pretty good. I hear sticky traps work pretty well too.

Then I put about an inch or so of pearlite, that RipVan? did on his obbts. At first I copied what he did just cause it looks pretty slick, but turns out it keeps those little bastards in a desert wasteland of pearlite. The gnats only have larvae on the first 1-2'' of soil, so pearlite drys out too quickly for them to reproduce. I've heard sand works, but haven't tried it. Also cut out a few circles from old white coco coir bags to make container covers.

 

[rrog]

These are the bastards. I have about 2" on top of buckets. I'll fill in with Perlite and see how that goes. They only live in the top couple of inches, eh? I don't see many flying around. Took me a while to find these guys to photograph.

Thanks for the support.

 

[ColoMediCann]

I put about an inch or so of pearlite, that RipVan? did on his obbts. At first I copied what he did just cause it looks pretty slick, but turns out it keeps those little bastards in a desert wasteland of pearlite. The gnats only have larvae on the first 1-2'' of soil, so pearlite drys out too quickly for them to reproduce.

I think this is more in the spirit of organics, too. Find ways to solve problems without requiring products. Good stuff.

 

[rrog]

Agreed. Before I go chem, I've dumped a good 2" of Perlite on the top. Good reason to leave that space, I guess. People seem optimiostic that this works. I'm getting pest strips also. Any particular brand?

QUOTE Nine7OH: 'll have to grab a pic of the 2.0 buckets that were vegging for a few months and currently blooming... bushes!! I can't get my soil ones that big, the growth reminds me a lot of when I used to mess around with hydro."

I hear you. These plants are far thicker and bushier than the sale NL#5 seeds I grew in drip hydro. We'll see when the dried buds get weighed... Not that I'm looking for volume. I still have 2/3 of the harvest from 1 year ago. I'm looking for quality. That's why I have the UV-B bulb going, as well as the all organic. Quality is my goal.

 

[rrog]

Tested pH of res water today. 8.0. Seems that despite all of my efforts to move that pH down, it is not cooperating.

Assuming the coco is monopolized with Ca+ ions, I'm not sure what the explanation is. pH 5.2 goes in. 7.75 -8.25 comes out. The pH seems to increase in the res over time. Even my raw well water isn't over 7.6, which is what I originally attributed the pH problem to.

Could be as simple as needing to condition the lava rocks. I have Hydroton in there also, but I believe that was previously conditioned. That's become the current hot suspect.

 

[rrog]

4 weeks into flower:

5 Weeks:

Only a couple of lonely Fungus Gnats spotted today. Maybe the Perlite is working. I'm also watering through the sight tube. Like filling a gas tank. This (I figure) will keep the top layer dryer,

 

[ROOTZ]

Lookin' good rrog!!

I never thought I'd be happy to see fungi. Just got back into town and checked on the OBBT's tonight. All I can say is WOW!!

You guys were right, I think I WILL like this grow method.

#1: Here's bucket no.1

#2: Damn!! Here's bucket no.2

#3: AND, here's my great white shark patiently waiting.

Which brings me to a few questions:
Judging by the buckets and the obvious evidence of growth within them, do you guys think it'll be safe to go ahead and throw my shark in there? -OR- Should I hold off?

Also, do you guys normally follow the 1 or 2 week rule before planting or do you plant based on the activity you're seeing in your buckets?

Ciao Fellaz

 

[rrog]

Oh man. That's exciting. That's Trich Fungi. I used to think it was AM Fungi (out best pal) but that takes longer to appear.

I would definitely wait two weeks total. I would think time is the key, not observation. Maybe others would feel differently. Although that shark is looking super fine. Perfect specimen. That a clone?

I have a "nursery" drip hydro unit with foil covered cups in a shallow tupperwear tote. Looks identical to that part of a picture, anyway.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156087

Good discussion here about Fungus and Phosphorus. In my opinion no need to supplement P much at all. Possibly a small amount during flower.

 

[rrog]

Well I took a sample of the res water today to check pH. I pulled out water and when I looked and smelled it carefully, I noticed a bunch of larvae. Maybe 12 of them in 1/2 cup of res water. I assume they're larvae and assume they're Fungus Gnat larvae.

I have since covered the sight tube (that I also use to re-fill the res sometimes) and the overflow tube with thin cloth. Clearly there was open airspace for them to access. Lesson learned.

I've added the 2" of Perlite to the top and sealed off the bottom holes. I'm tempted to simply wait them out as they die. Assuming they can't survive in the now sealed system. But maybe they can?

Again, if I assume they'll all die, how long might the larvae live and keep eating? If just a few days, I might leave well enough alone. I'll be harvesting in February.

Thanks for the support.

 

[xmobotx]

hey ROOTZ,

the obbt will give you some wiggle room w/ how "hot" your mix is. So, you could take your chances time-wise. But, give the plants something to buffer between the "soil" they know (the containers you currently have them in) and the exotic "new" environment of your nutrient mixed soil.

maybe something like a "super soil" method where the nutes are in the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the container. (no, you shouldn't scoop out a bunch of your soil)

just the top 2-3" of mine is coco-only so my corns had to reach down into the nute-mixed soil below.

maybe an inch or 2 under your rootball?

hey rrog,

you're obviously doing things right because your plants are looking great. you must be making very small adjustments in the right directions dealing w/ the issues you've confronted

I don't want to pretend to advise you guys because I have varying degrees of success from year to year. But, something which was a big obstacle for me has been getting amounts of ammendments within the margins. Or FTM making corrections when it's too late. I read so much about certain things being "heavy feeders" that I have had issues w/ PH and "hot" mixes over and over. (but not for a few years)

 

[Trichgnomes]

Oh man. That's exciting. That's Trich Fungi. I used to think it was AM Fungi (out best pal) but that takes longer to appear.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156087

Good discussion here about Fungus and Phosphorus. In my opinion no need to supplement P much at all. Possibly a small amount during flower.

I was thinking of starting a thread about this in Organic Soil, but I feel as though it is applicable here, but not really so in the AM/P thread mentioned above.
So Trichoderma are loosely classified as saprophytes I believe. However, I could not find out further classification. I realize they are often used used as a biological control, hence the reason of adding them to myco inococulants. However, saprophytic fungi are further broken down into three categories:
Primary Decomposers
Secondary Decomposers
Tertiary Decomposers

I do not really know which category Trich fungi would be in, however that is not really my point in bringing this up. I feel as though Mycorrhizal fungi are the only ones that get much of a buzz in the community. Not to say we aren't all aware of other species existing, i.e. in ACT brews, etc. But most of these fungi are not really talked about.


Seeing as how it is unclear whether or not the Trichoderma is desirable with the myco, I wonder if there are other groups that would live more harmoniously, especially in the OBBT.
There must be some types of saprophytic or endophytic (non-mycorrhizal, yet primarily benevolent) that can live in the soil food web with our other friends. Endophytes are particularly exiting because they do not need roots to begin populating, and can be cultured in lab conditions, and presumably in an OBBT during the "incubation" phase.

Sorry for the hi-jack, just wanted to share as i have been following along for a while and have yet to give any input. Cheers!

BTW the above was mostly paraphrased from Mycelium Running, regarding the classifications and such.