My head hurts from overthinking - maybe someone cane clarify plant maturation?

[Learningfirst]

Hey IC,

I have done a LOT of homework such as reading so many books, watching vids, asking questions & reading IC like mad... (Its even my homepage - and I'm disabled & basically don't leave my place.)
So I've mostly theoretical knowledge & I do have a few months of caring for plants in the Veg state.

Q1.
I wonder about how some plants I see look as big or bushy as they are. I understand strains and grow conditions are key to success and for quality, or yield.

I don't understand if it is normal for bottom foliage to yellow & eventually fall off. I have read the importance of how they offer a ton of starch & sugar to emphasize photosynthesis. But its just that I find they yellow and fall off and it almost seems as though its a Nitrogen deficiency; however, the rest of the plant looks great - aside from a few which I did burn with lights.

I especially am curious to know about branching. More importantly the lower branches that came from the first set of leaves on one of my plants. They are growing as are all the branches that appeared at early nodes in the seedling. I am curious *dying to know* if they stretch like crazy during 12/12. I understand that I can expect up to 3 times the size of plant after bud cycle. I just wonder if those branches at bottom will make it to the canopy or close during budding?

Also - I have one Bagseed plant left out of 3. I have mistreated abused and tortured them during their vegetative lives. So I now know just how much torture they can withstand (for whatever strain they were really.) The point is that this last one is 14" tall after 3 or more months since seed germ. I do believe the reason for it's tiny size after all that time was the abuse and a lot of experimentation. This thing is void of normal leaves. I've only a lot of short branches from where the leaves once were. I Presume it must be root bound as it is so old and is in a 2 gallon pot. This is probably why it hasn't grown much taller but I'm not sure. Sorry for the long winded story. I simply wonder if losing that much foliage is at all normal or if the leaves from the branches are enough to photosynthesize and bud?

Well I will stop there... I think I could write a book of questions.

There are several pics in my Album which is open to all. If you would like to help on my newb questions there are some photos there. These two O.G.A. Zombie Virus plants are good examples of my curiosity. The first plant is the branching I'm wondering about end height. and the other is one that has lost too much foliage - I think you'll notice I supercropped it a couple of times.

- Should note that I'm not sure of the age of these pics.

Thanks in advance & Peace

 

[old toby]

it always seems that the top stretch s more. if there in veg longer,less of the stretch in flower.

 

[thal]

I wonder about how some plants I see look as big or bushy as they are. I understand strains and grow conditions are key to success and for quality, or yield.

Indica dominant strains will tend to grow shorter and bushier than sativa dominant strains, but you can prune or train your plant into a bush. The amount and spectrum of your light will also produce different shaped plants. You also need to have a fully developed rootball and adequate container size to create bushes. You aren't going to grow a big bush in a 16oz cup(I've seen some hempy bucket exceptions, but as a general rule).

I don't understand if it is normal for bottom foliage to yellow & eventually fall off. I have read the importance of how they offer a ton of starch & sugar to emphasize photosynthesis. But its just that I find they yellow and fall off and it almost seems as though its a Nitrogen deficiency; however, the rest of the plant looks great - aside from a few which I did burn with lights.

It is normal for fan leaves to yellow and die as the plant grows on. The lower leaves in the shade will slowly die as the plant outgrows their use. During flowering your leaves will also yellow and drop, You'll want enough nitrogen to carry them through the stretch and keep some fan leaves on during bud production, but they should be dead or dying by the last 2 or 3 weeks.

I especially am curious to know about branching. More importantly the lower branches that came from the first set of leaves on one of my plants. They are growing as are all the branches that appeared at early nodes in the seedling. I am curious *dying to know* if they stretch like crazy during 12/12. I understand that I can expect up to 3 times the size of plant after bud cycle. I just wonder if those branches at bottom will make it to the canopy or close during budding?

Some plants will increase a lot more than 3x during flowering, but accounting for a 2x or 3x increase in size is a good rule.

Your lower buds will stretch during flowering. How much they stretch depends on the genetics of the plant, available light, and pruning methods you may or may not have used. On an unpruned or untrained plant the lowest branches on a plant will typically remain the lowest branches on a plant, even during flower.

Also - I have one Bagseed plant left out of 3. I have mistreated abused and tortured them during their vegetative lives. So I now know just how much torture they can withstand (for whatever strain they were really.) The point is that this last one is 14" tall after 3 or more months since seed germ. I do believe the reason for it's tiny size after all that time was the abuse and a lot of experimentation. This thing is void of normal leaves. I've only a lot of short branches from where the leaves once were. I Presume it must be root bound as it is so old and is in a 2 gallon pot. This is probably why it hasn't grown much taller but I'm not sure. Sorry for the long winded story. I simply wonder if losing that much foliage is at all normal or if the leaves from the branches are enough to photosynthesize and bud?

During flower your plant will produce new leaves, buds, and branches. If you have the setup I would transplant from a 2 gallon to a 3 or 5 gallon container with new medium. Give the plant 2 weeks to get over shock, extend roots, and start healthy growth. It will never yield as much as a plant that has had 3 months of super happy veg time, but it will be better than if you flowered it now.

 

[thal]

it always seems that the top stretch s more. if there in veg longer,less of the stretch in flower.

I disagree with you. Increasing veg time won't decrease the amount of stretch. Rather it will create a bigger plant that will stretch just as much.

 

[Learningfirst]

Thanks guys.

I appreciate quick answers. I have to say that I've never heard that about the veg time and stretch ratio.. however, I'm a seeing is believing. I appreciate your advice.

Thal - took some serious time to answer a lot and it's also much appreciated. My plants have been LST'd, and super-cropped.. Only thing I haven't done is topping or fimming on the good genes.. Did with the Bag seeders. I have enough canopy for larger plants; so LST wasn't necessary but Man I love watching all those branches reach for the sky.

Also the super-cropping is very awesome. I managed to get the "Topped double cola Effect" through one of my pinches done very close to the top. I love that plant! Decided to LST just one of those two tops.

If I had proper odor control I would definitely flip the switch - but my disability pension means a piece here and a piece there. Suppose that is a good thing considering I'm not very patient and it's forced me to allow good plant maturity.

Thanks again & Peace.

 

[LUDACRIS]

My head is ready to explode.



LUDA.

 

[LUDACRIS]

How long have they been vegging.
And the dying of leaves in veg shows a problem.
Do you know the sex of them yet ????.
What are you feeding them ??.
Whats the soil mix made up from ??

 

[Learningfirst]

Hey Luda,

I have been vegging these OGA Zombie Virus and Nirvana Ak 48's for 10 wks... Bloody ridiculously long time for the size of the plant. Their all fairly short - but I'm guilty of LST, & supercropping and most def. of being a noob grower.

I really wish I knew the sex but I've an optimistic view only because of the branching style and "hints" that I've read. Unfortunately - I honestly am not at all certain. Pretty sure I killed all attempted clones as I live in an extremely humid environment and probably - did not need the cover on for the clone dome. Not to mention putting some under an intense skylights *fried*. Oh the list goes on.

Finally though I have several perfect candidates for cloning from the branching zombies but fear I'll waste a cola.

Feeding is also a story as is much with me. I'm working on short concise verbage but my head is a mess. I bought some A & B Bigfoot Veg - but soon realized the shop owner was more interested in a couple of bucks and sold me soil-less nutes for a soil op.

I am using a mix that I would think is organic. I was using potting soil at very early seedling/germ stage. Since then I've bought all sorts of material to make my own organic mix as I thought the less hassle the better. It's as follows:
1/3 organic potting soil, and cow manure compost.
1/3 perlite
1/3 vermiculite

While that should be it - the additives on side are:
Don't remember measurments as I read boxes:
Dolomite Lime - Pellets - but allowed to sit for the 30 days to activate
some Epsom salts
Bone Meal
Made an aerated alfalfa tea - little did I realize then it comes in concetrate - bought it from grocers lol - threw some of above in as well and fed only once with good results - some time ago (1 month).

WOW I need practice in keeping my answers concise.

Essentially not really feeding them too much outside of the bone meal 1 a month - brewed some tea 1ce and now - buh - the weed dealer is on his way = I need help

 

[LUDACRIS]

Hey Luda,

I have been vegging these OGA Zombie Virus and Nirvana Ak 48's for 10 wks... Bloody ridiculously long time for the size of the plant. Their all fairly short - but I'm guilty of LST, & supercropping and most def. of being a noob grower.

I really wish I knew the sex but I've an optimistic view only because of the branching style and "hints" that I've read. Unfortunately - I honestly am not at all certain. Pretty sure I killed all attempted clones as I live in an extremely humid environment and probably - did not need the cover on for the clone dome. Not to mention putting some under an intense skylights *fried*. Oh the list goes on.

Finally though I have several perfect candidates for cloning from the branching zombies but fear I'll waste a cola.

Feeding is also a story as is much with me. I'm working on short concise verbage but my head is a mess. I bought some A & B Bigfoot Veg - but soon realized the shop owner was more interested in a couple of bucks and sold me soil-less nutes for a soil op.

I am using a mix that I would think is organic. I was using potting soil at very early seedling/germ stage. Since then I've bought all sorts of material to make my own organic mix as I thought the less hassle the better. It's as follows:
1/3 organic potting soil, and cow manure compost.
1/3 perlite
1/3 vermiculite

While that should be it - the additives on side are:
Don't remember measurments as I read boxes:
Dolomite Lime - Pellets - but allowed to sit for the 30 days to activate
some Epsom salts
Bone Meal
Made an aerated alfalfa tea - little did I realize then it comes in concetrate - bought it from grocers lol - threw some of above in as well and fed only once with good results - some time ago (1 month).

WOW I need practice in keeping my answers concise.

Essentially not really feeding them too much outside of the bone meal 1 a month - brewed some tea 1ce and now - buh - the weed dealer is on his way = I need help

You need to test the soils PH FIRST.

 

[calstar]

Yeah, definitely a bunch of info out there. Seems like the trick is to gather as much as possible, then go with what feels right for you and your grow

 

[Learningfirst]

Extremely disappointed - out of 5 zombie virus I've 1 confirmed males 3 highly suspicious (they've been on 12/12 for 10 days and one really began showing it's sacks and it's chopped. Then 3 others have the same looking bracts/calyxes still without any pistils. I suspect that I'll be lucky to get one female of the entire lot. A LOT of wasted effort - I learned a lot - would have been nice to get a toke though.

Peace.

EDIT: could it have anything to do with seed size? The pack of seeds I bought were definitely mature in color but extremely small compared to some Nirvana Ak's.

I thought the Ak's would be male; although, they're looking more promising at this point. I so want to smoke some Virus & hate wasting money I can't afford.

 

[Learningfirst]

I have such an awesome bank. I called to find out about conditions and stuff & the owner was soo cool. Immediately offered me some replacements and was so generous and cool - I almost feel too guilty to go get them... Almost as I'm not lying and I really wanna get some Zombie mom's.

I wish I could write where I got them and stuff; but they rock!

Cheers.

 

[LUDACRIS]

Extremely disappointed - out of 5 zombie virus I've 1 confirmed males 3 highly suspicious (they've been on 12/12 for 10 days and one really began showing it's sacks and it's chopped. Then 3 others have the same looking bracts/calyxes still without any pistils. I suspect that I'll be lucky to get one female of the entire lot. A LOT of wasted effort - I learned a lot - would have been nice to get a toke though.

Peace.

EDIT: could it have anything to do with seed size? The pack of seeds I bought were definitely mature in color but extremely small compared to some Nirvana Ak's.

I thought the Ak's would be male; although, they're looking more promising at this point. I so want to smoke some Virus & hate wasting money I can't afford.

No its simply down to the seeds genetics.
Dont stress as these things happen and luckily you have found the males and thats a good sign as females take longer to show sex signs so the ones that are not showing yet sound like females to me.

(good luck).

LUDA.