My girls are gettin spotty! (kinda)... NOT 56k Friendly!!!

[Petch]

Whats up all...

This is my first attempt at growing, and I am using some random seeds I had laying around from the last few batches I picked up.

I started the germination process on Jan 24th, and after about 3 days I planted the seedlings in some random soil I had laying around the house, because I didn't have jack shit ready. After a few more days, I went and got the soil mix that I posted below.

I'll give week by week photos later so you guys can see how they all have been coming along, but I have been seeing some yellowing and spots on the leaves (pics will be below). I am kinda broke right now (fuckin student loans) so I don't have all the needed equipment, and I am ordering as I go. The main thing I am missing is my water pH tester, but I just ordered a kit and it should be here by the end of the week.

Ill give as much detail as I can....

How long has this problem been going on? About 2-3 weeks
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No.
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
What STRAIN are you growing? Unknown.
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Seeds.
What is the age of your plants? 26 Days (3 Days germination, 7 days seedling, 16 days veg).
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) 16 Days.
How tall are the plants? ~6 Inches.
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Vegetative.
When was your last watering? In the last set of photos, they had just been watered before they got pics. Generally they get watered every other day, because 3-4 inches below the soil is dry.
What is your water temps? Room Temp.
What size bulb are you using? I have a total of 5 CF bulbs ranging from 75Watts-150Watts.
What is the distance to the canopy? ~6-7 Inches.
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? Forgot to check, I'll get back with this info.
What is the canopy temperature? ~70o F, (Temps will be higher soon, as I am getting a 600w HPS system.)
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) I'll have to get back on this one, my digital themometer is in the mail.
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) I don't have the exact CFM on the fan, but I do have an osolating fan pushing air across the plants.
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? The plants are sitting in a big open basement, until I get my grow room finished.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? The fan is osculating over the plants.
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Unknown.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Tap water at the current time, but I will be setting up a cheap RO filter (Pipedream's cheap DIY RO).
Are you using water from a water softener? No.
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched? No.
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? No.
Are plant's infected with pest's? No.


Now for the pictures:

Soil setup is 1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss, 1/3 Perlite, and 1/3 Vermiculite. This was based off watching a video series on creating your own soil mixes.

Week 1:

Week 2:

Week 3:

Week 3.5:

Anyone have any ideas???

 

[smokesalot420]

Are you turning off your lights when your plants are wet? How often are your spraying them, and with what? It looks like it could be water beading up on the leaves and burning them....

 

[hanuman]

Soil setup is 1/3 Sphagnum Peat Moss, 1/3 Perlite, and 1/3 Vermiculite. This was based off watching a video series on creating your own soil mixes.

Two inert components, i.e perlite & vermiculite, plus peat moss, which has a very low pH. I think your soil (less) :smile: mix is the cause of your problem.
Granted, the substrate should be slightly acidic, but I think you've overdone it here. Also, you don't mention anything about nutrients?



h

 

[canned abyss1]

I have seen this before, I think it is caused from too much peat. The peat mix and the peat pots are probably making it too acidic and they may have also gotten a little nutrient burn from the miracle grow perlite which unlike most perlite is not inert, it contains trace amounts of nutrients. If it's not too late you should get some regular potting soil and transplant them into it, try to remove as much as the peat as you can.

 

[Petch]

Are you turning off your lights when your plants are wet? How often are your spraying them, and with what? It looks like it could be water beading up on the leaves and burning them....

I have been spraying them while the lights are on, so this is a possibility. I'll start to spray them only when the lights are going off.

Two inert components, i.e perlite & vermiculite, plus peat moss, which has a very low pH. I think your soil (less) :smile: mix is the cause of your problem.
Granted, the substrate should be slightly acidic, but I think you've overdone it here. Also, you don't mention anything about nutrients?
h

I know the pH soil tester I have isn't the greatest, but its showing that the pH of the soil is roughly 7... I know that seems a bit high for soil and I cant guarantee the tester is showing me accurate reading, I plan to get a cheap chemical tester in the future.

As for the nutrients, I currently got nothing going on, and I am looking for suggestions. Again I don't have tons on money here, but I'll try to follow the suggestions that I get.

I have seen this before, I think it is caused from too much peat. The peat mix and the peat pots are probably making it too acidic and they may have also gotten a little nutrient burn from the miracle grow perlite which unlike most perlite is not inert, it contains trace amounts of nutrients. If it's not too late you should get some regular potting soil and transplant them into it, try to remove as much as the peat as you can.

You mentioned there are only trace amounts of nutrients in the soils, so how could this be causing nutrient burns? I thought that only happened when you gave them much of any nutrient?

I don't disagree with you that it could be the issue, but before I go transplanting again, I would like to get a chemical soil tester to see what I'm dealing with.


Thanks for the input guys! Always looking for some good input.

 

[master shake]

The MG perlite also has shitty nutes added to it, looks like a low pH problem and your soil is too hot. I would also recommend adding dolomite lime to your mix as well.

 

[Petch]

The MG perlite also has shitty nutes added to it, looks like a low pH problem and your soil is too hot. I would also recommend adding dolomite lime to your mix as well.

How many parts should I add? 1/8 Dolomite, 1/4 Vermiculite, 3/8 Peat Moss, and 1/4 Perlite??

 

[B.C.]

High Petch, and welcome to IC Mag! Yer plants are suffering from low PH. Anytime you mix yer own soil with pete moss you must add 1-2 table spoons of dolimite lime per gal of soil. Also, when you use a soiless mix you need ta plan on feeding fairly quick. Those numbers on the bags are not even whole numbers, so there really isn't that much in the way of nutrients in yer mix. I would suggest if ya mix yer own soil, you use the lime and also mix 20% worm castings to yer mix. The lime will help adjust the PH to around 7, and the humates in the castings will buffer against PH swings caused by water not being a perfect PH, or from nutes, etc.... This is how and why organic growers don't ever check their PH. It jus makes things alot more forgiving to plants. My Good luck! BC

 

[Petch]

High Petch, and welcome to IC Mag! Yer plants are suffering from low PH. Anytime you mix yer own soil with pete moss you must add 1-2 table spoons of dolimite lime per gal of soil. Also, when you use a soiless mix you need ta plan on feeding fairly quick. Those numbers on the bags are not even whole numbers, so there really isn't that much in the way of nutrients in yer mix. I would suggest if ya mix yer own soil, you use the lime and also mix 20% worm castings to yer mix. The lime will help adjust the PH to around 7, and the humates in the castings will buffer against PH swings caused by water not being a perfect PH, or from nutes, etc.... This is how and why organic growers don't ever check their PH. It jus makes things alot more forgiving to plants. My Good luck! BC

Thanks for the great advice. I will start looking to purchase some Dolimite Lime and Worm Castings.

How would you suggest I add these ingredients now that they plants are rooted throughout the entire pot?

 

[10k]

PLEASE STOP spraying your seedlings !

Why are you spraying your seedlings btw ?

 

[Petch]

PLEASE STOP spraying your seedlings !

Why are you spraying your seedlings btw ?

It was a tip I picked up from a video... They stated that spraying the plants helps keep bugs off and helps clear dust/dirt off...

They also stated to only spray while in the vegetative state, once you move to flowering or see buds developing then you stop.

 

[Weedman Herb]

Your seedlings haven't had time to collect any dust yet ... stop misting them ...

 

[Petch]

Your seedlings haven't had time to collect any dust yet ... stop misting them ...

I'll give that a shot. I'll stop misting until they get bigger, and I'll be looking into getting some Dolimite Lime and Worm Castings.




What is the best way that I can add the Dolimite Lime and Worm Castings now that the plants are fully rooted throughout the pot?

 

[Brother Bear]

hey man this thread explains it all
and you already like to mix your own soiless up
click the blue arrow beside BurnOnes name to get to the thread

Here are some tried and true recipes for getting started in organic growing. Pick one of the first two soiless mix recipes for your grow medium. Then, choose a nute recipe that will work best for what you have available.

Enjoy...

Here are two very good organic soiless mixes...

LC's Mix is great for any stage of growth. You can germ seeds in it, grow mothers in it, root clones in it as well as veg and flower in it.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

Or, if you use Pro Mix or Sunshine Mix...
LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up)
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.
But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source

Choose one of these organic plant food recipes to add to LC's Soiless Mix.

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.
With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.
When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germ one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloid's Guano Mix.
Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.
1/3C hi N Guano (Mexican Bat Guano)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Jersey Greensand
1TBS Kelp Meal


RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
Add 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 3rd watering.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


RECIPE #4
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O

For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O


And now for some more good tips...

Organic pH issues

I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing.
The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it.
Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits.
A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range.
With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like Pure Blend Pro, Earth Juice and guano teas way outside the optimum pH range without worry. The humus will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading.
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.

Chlorine tap water

Just a word of caution for you organic heads out there...
If you are tapped onto a municipal water supply that uses chlorine to kill bacteria in the water, it'll do the same thing to the bacteria (microherd) in your organic food source.
Always bubble your municipal water in an open container (5 gallon bucket) for 24 hours before adding ANYTHING organic to it.

Flushing

There is absolutely no reason to "flush" organic nute solutions from your soil mix. In an organic grow, the plants don't take up the organic nutes (guano, bone, blood or kelp). The bacteria eat the organic nutes and excrete food that the plant can feed off of. So the organic nutes don't need to be flushed because they never enter the plant. And besides, meals like kelp, bone and blood along with worm castings and dolomite can't be flushed from your soil mix anyway. If you use guano and seaweed, try using plain water or worm casting tea for your last watering or two so the plant can use up what's left in the soil. But drowning your soil with water isn't necessary.

Burn1

 

[cocktail frank]

that soil tester is shit.
they always say 7!

your plants are showing ph problems, lockout is your problem.
u need to lime to buffer that acidic ph.
and for christ sakes, stop misting them youngins.

 

[Petch]

hey man this thread explains it all
and you already like to mix your own soiless up
click the blue arrow beside BurnOnes name to get to the thread

Wow stellar information man, thanks for bringing this to my attention.. This gives me some idea of what nutrients I need... Thanks again man!

that soil tester is shit.
they always say 7!

your plants are showing ph problems, lockout is your problem.
u need to lime to buffer that acidic ph.
and for christ sakes, stop misting them youngins.

Thanks for the heads up, and I'll stop misting for now!! haha

 

[Petch]

After reading over the post Brother Bear quoted, I decided to go with the following nute setup for my soil:

RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloid's Guano Mix.
Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.
1/3C hi N Guano (Mexican Bat Guano)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Jersey Greensand
1TBS Kelp Meal

I have a few questions though... It doesn't appear that Hydro shop that closest to me (www.mdhydro.com) has Jersey Greensand, is there something I could use in place of this? Or should I just order some online?

Also, what is the best way to add all these things to my current soil mix now that the plants are fully rooted through the pots? I plan to transplant at a later date to 5 gallon buckets, should I just do it then?? If I wait that long won't my plants suffer?

Thanks for the good input from everyone!

 

[cocktail frank]

try a loacl nursery.
go on the epsoma website for destributors in your area.
i used that same recipe but cut the amounts in 1/2, seemed to hot for me.

 

[Petch]

try a loacl nursery.
go on the epsoma website for destributors in your area.
i used that same recipe but cut the amounts in 1/2, seemed to hot for me.

Thanks for pointing me to that site, I didn't see where it was a direct product for Jersey Greensand, but I did find a local retail outlet that I wasn't aware of, so I'll go check them out tomorrow and see what I find.

Also, based of what you mentioned about it being too hot, I'll try slight variations with each plant to see how they respond.

 

[B.C.]

High Petch!

High Petch!

Don't worry about the greensand, it doesn't bring alot to the mix anyway. Make sure you have the kelp though..... I'm not really sure how you could add this ta yer plants you have goin already. I reackon you could top dress em with it and feed em with a worm cast tea. That may buffer em enough for them ta grow??? or you could try transplanting. Carefully crumbling or rinsing ( with water ) away the soil around the roots. It's risky if you have never done it before though. Sorry I couldn't be more help. Good luck! BC