My Bio Buckets...?

[Blunted22]

Ok guys this is my first DIY ever with anything grow wise. I want to first off thank big toke and everyone that has helped the community with this awesome setup.


Now as that goes im lost. Big tokes setup is in 6 or 7 parts. I got my grow room done and i think i got the buckets down. Please tell me if im wrong but its just a 5 gal bucket with a supply and return line on opposite sides 2 1/2 inches from the top. On the bottom i got a 3/4" shut off valve for easy draining. i dont have the net pots yet but that all seemed simple. Now i am lost on the supply line which big toke gots on a 1" elbow, im not sure if its suppose to face down inside the bucket or outside the bucket anyone to clear that up would be sweet.

Now if all thats right im TOTALLY lost on the rez... I know about the rez to use a 3/4 drain hole and shutoff valve for e z draining like my buckets all have. The second thign is to add a float valve to the rez for auto topping off of the water.... Which is great but.. I dont know how to add a float valve to a rez i understand that its another extra rez like bucket that is full and when the float valve gets low itll add the water from the sub rez... If anyone could
clear this up for me and maybe even walk me through it it will be great.


After that step it gets complicated about adding 4" drain pipes in the rez so if the pump shuts off it doesnt siphon back into the rez and flood the place. I understand all about what it is suppose to do and why but to actually see clearly what hes saying and build it right i have no idea. From there i havent went no further because im going step by step so it doesnt get TOO complicated.

Please someone with first hand expierence chime in i would be very grateful thanks alot guys.

 

[Hydropimp]

Blunted22 first off let me give you props on gettin your room together that is the first step in making it happen. but you have to be dedicated to this shit.

BT only helped out the ppl who would post pic's not me I'll help you out with or with out.

Let get started how many ladies who you like to have and how big is the room and what do you have for equipment?

 

[Blunted22]

Thanks hydro for the response. Let me first let you in on some info on me... -=]

Ive been growing for about 2 years always SOG. Ive recently had to shutdown my grow with a buddy for security issues (on his side) and now im on my own. Well i cant do shit with my girl so im redoing it with another friend.

Now this friend retains a lawyer that informed him that anything over 99 plants the feds automatically pick up and your looking at a min of 5 years.....

Well basically we said Forget SOG cause my 1 table can fit 100-120 by itself and if we doign it the way i want to we would be running at least 3 of those tables. Doing the math with the prison time didnt make much sense so ive alwasy wanted to do the bio buckets but since frined #1 was use to SOG we went his way.

So now im redoing my grow at a new house with a new friend. Just to let you know how dedicated i am i got about 4g in equipment (which will be almost absolete (except lights) once the new system is going) and i was paying rent... lol


Now the new house let me start by informing you is a 800sq ft apertment.. BOOOO i know it sucks but only temp till he buys a house and we get to use his perfect house hes liveing in now. I got neighbors below and on once side. I buying a phat filter (maybe two) and a vortek 4000 deorderizor (which should be plenty).

My setup while im in the apartment will be no bigger then 20 buckets no one lives there so i have all the 800sq ft. and can use all the power (BTW it has washer dryer hot water heater, Central air, and a dishwahser that most people use on reg basis that will not be used so lights wont be an issue.

For equipment i have (that can be used for this setup) 3 1000w lights ballists etc.. all the timers etc..


The only equip i really need is the system which im in process of building. I think after reading for the last 3 hours i gotten most shit figured out.

I really need to know where the Rez Over flow 2 4" pipes reflow into (im guesing a drain of some sort, bathtub maybe?)


and also i seem to be not seeing the setup from the pump to the rez, the make up of the doohicky that will distribute to all the different hoses in the supply line. Besides that i think i got it man and its pretty damn e z once you read it all -=]


But really man if you can take the time out to help me with this rez i would consider you my savor.

Actually if you read this whole long ass post i consider you kool lol. thanks buddy

 

[Blunted22]

Bump bumpo bump

 

[cocktail frank]

why don't you read the entire bio bucket thread. all the answers you're looking for are there...with pictures.
a tub? hahaha
the drain lines drain back into the rez.
that's how it recirculates.
if you pumped water thru the system into a tub for a drain, your water bill would be thru the roof and your plants would get no ferts whatsoever.
try some follow up reading, i read the entire thread 3-4 times, before i was even going to attempt anything.
do yourself a favor and go to the thread and filter it so you only see big toke's posts. it's way easier learning that way.

 

[Blunted22]

Hey frank i think you gotten me mistaken buddy. I wasnt asking where the water drains to out the bio buckets i know its gets pushed back into the drain and drains back to the rez with a water fall effect, buts thats not what i was talkign about....


If you check his thread he has 2 4" pipes on the top of his rez leading somewhere. These pipes are incase his pump fails power outage etc... If this happens a syphon effect starts and drains all the water from you bio buckets (5gal each) into you small rez (25 gal or so) Now if this happens you can have 80 gals goign into a 25gal rez creating a flood. Now these 2 4" pipes lead somwhere.


I just dont know where so if someone could tell me that would be sweet.

 

[Blunted22]

after rereading the rez post another 20 times i think i figureed it out. And frank you were right but not about how i was thinking just about the two 4" pipes being the drain pipes for the buckets. I thought that was a back up measure for overflow and there were other pipes that were in place for the drain lines/water fall effect.


Now that ive done more research i see they are one in the same the peices are falling together and i once again feal stupid

But on a up note im one more step closer WOOHOO

thanks agian for any help

 

[Hydropimp]

The two four inch pipes are for the drain lines and it is also elevated to the top of the res so you can have a water fall effect.

Now blunt you said you wanted 20 buckets or do you want less I need to know to determaine the size of pump you will need to get and this is one of the most important parts of the grow and how many linear feet of plumbing you will be running.

Now for your res you will have to buy a hard plastic container. get back with specific details and lets start on making it happen.

 

[Blunted22]

hydro im running 24 buckets i think

I havent bought a new pump i think my old one is too small im looking for one around 500gph

And for the rez i cant find shit but a rubber maid everythign else with short and fat nothing is tall and strong anymore.

 

[Jesusbuiltmygro]

A 24 bucket bio system can go bad very quickly if you don't have a chiller.

One thing the Big Toke threads leaves out is that he eventually purchased a chiller to keep his setup going without trouble. This is a major purchase that most hydro growers try to avoid, but well worth the cost for large scale hydro.

The chiller all in all will ensure you don't have to flush more so than the unknown levels of bacteria colonies.

Personally I'd go with a short wide rez if I had the space since the wider the rez the more drop off you can have for your waterfall effect.

What is the total volume of water in your system. Your pump should be changing out the water 10 times an hour AND the water temps need to be 68-72, which is why you will probably need a water chiller. So hmm 500 gph would only change a 50 gallon system 10 times per hour. Your system is 24 buckets so it has to be WELL over 50 gallons and more like 120 gallons. Which means your pump SHOULD be more like 1200 gph.

The float valve is optional but you should try to top off the rez daily. So just fill it up and mark the level so you know when it goes down.

Leaks are not uncommon especially mid-grow as the roots can clog the overflow drain. That's why running such a large system for your first go is dangerous. If just ONE bucket clogs the system will leak the entire contents of the rez on the grow room.

Look for small drips from the drains also as even a small drip will add up over time.

Be SURE to lightproof everything, the rez, the buckets, the lids, even the PVC pipe can be insulated or lighted proofed with aluminum sided tape. This is key to keeping the bacteria ecosystem in check especially if you are starting with white buckets. I like use the 3 mil construction grade trash bags cut into squares large enough to cover up the opening in the lid. Those construction grade trash bags are great, cheap and highly available light proofing. Unlike standard trash bags these block light completely even in just one layer. So, a box of them goes far for things like blacking out doors or windows or making cheap lids for the buckets. You can even use this as lightproofing for the buckets if you were on a real right budget, but the tape or some reflective surface is best for the lids anyway to get some of that lost light back.

Also don't skip the 2 weeks of bacterial colonization before you put the plants especially in a large system. I would try to put my rez right next to an air conditioning vent or even vent AC right into the rez to try to keep water temps down or you may wind up having to flush the no flush bio buckets.
As far as things like bacteria goes, the one major thing these bio threads overlook is how different geographies and exact environments can have much different bacteria populations. That makes it ESPECIALLY hard to actually have a way to estimate bacteria colony levels since they are likely not the same as Big Tokes. Meaning that one of the most important factors in BIO is more or less unmeasurable.

In my opinion you don't actually need a bio system to run a non flush hydro. It might help, but on the other hand you can't rely completely on the bio filter. More important are the environmental conditions that apply to all hydro such as water temps and how clean the room and house is. A clean room is nice, but if the rest of your house is infected with mildew and mold then don't actually expect that you can keep them out. The more practical approach is to control the environment first and worry about microbes second especially since we cannot realistically measure them.

If you don't control the environment well then all your beneficial bacterial breeding grounds turn into harmful bacteria breeding grounds, since beside oxygen levels they more or less like the same conditions (the porous surface of the rocks will colonize beneficial OR harmful bacteria). That's why the first 2 weeks of creating a buffer of beneficial bacteria is quite important. Once you turn the light on after that and the room heats up most grows begin a spiraling decline as their system is slowly converted to a majority of anaerobic bacteria. Bio buckets are rarely perpetual so much as they buffer you from the a harmful bacteria outbreak taking over the system very quickly. The overall volume of water would almost certainly have to be higher to support longer grow cycles or never flushing. It's important to realize this design doesn't not magically just destroy all harmful bacteria and that the key to bio bucket is no different then all the rest of the DWC like systems and most hydro systems in general which is LOW WATER TEMPS. For the roots to sit in water ALL the time that water MUST be close to temps of what the plant would get out door which is likely even lower than the target water temp of 68 degrees. You may get away just fine with no chiller, but if you don't keep an eye on water temps or don't light proof well you bio buckets will likely be doomed. It's a gamble to run such as large system with no chiller, if that's what your doing especially if you don't know the early signs of unhealthy water. Unlike many other conditions the plants can look fine (but perhaps not be growing fast) on top and be more or less be a bucket of slime covered roots on the underside. Since it's a bio system it's actually harder to combat bacteria without h202 or other chemicals if you get it. That's why you will read many a failed bio bucket. Many sucessful ones also, but I'd say it's not the best system to start with thats for sure.

Oh yea also try to switch over to an external pump since they add much less heat to the rez, though external pumps are always louder you can work out ways to muffle them safely.

Oh yea and wash the HELL out of the lava rocks because no matter how much you wash them they always seem to have a little more dust left in them. Really if you have a power washer handy you might just want to go industrial on cleaning the dust off 25 8 inch net pots worth of lava rock cuz it's gonna be some work.

Thats perhaps my greatest gripe with the standard bio bucket design... fucking washing lava rock sucks and people used to complain about hydrotron...geez. I could probably wash 5 times as much hydrotron before I got one batch of lava stone dust free and plus there is no like piles of dust mud left over like lava rock. Plus hydrotron is easily re-used and lava rock would seem like a nightmare to clean. Not that I'm saying use hydrotron, just that I hate lava rock and it's dusty, non reusable, sharp self.
That and the clogging overflow drains are bio buckets major flaws. I'm sure there is a more reasonable medium that can offer just as much bacterial hosting capacity and a way to ensure the overflows don't clog, but I've yet to see an easy fail proof design. Most people overlook water temps and that leads to hydro failure or at least greatly reduced yields.

 

[cocktail frank]

i bought a 900 gph pump for 16 buckets and it was way too small. 1200 might not even be big enough. if you go w/ BT's calculations, it might sound like enough, but there will be head loss. i'd go way bigger to play it safe.
24 buckets x 5 gallons = 120 gallons.
res would need to be 18 gallons.
138 gallons total volume .
minimum of 1380 gph pump.
my advice would to be to double that #
at least 2760 gph, if they make that.
or get 2 pumps to add up to that.
try marinedepot.com for the pumps, where i got mine.
a good chiller can run you close to $1000, it's worth every penny imo.

 

[Blunted22]

Hey jesus and frank thanks for the input. Do you guys know where to get black buckets? cause i cant find any. i found so me online for about 5$ a peice but i dont know how to order 24 buckets without it lookign wierd.

 

[Hydropimp]

If I where you I'd get a squence pump called the hammer head I have this one man is this shit the best pump money can buy it is silent as fuck and defenitly a chiller is a must if you don't have a big pump and a big chiller you might as well just keep dreaming about this shit cause it will never happen with out these two things.

For the chiller I suggest you get one of those drop in chiller because it will not create that much heat now if you don't have the money for it you can get the in line one but it will add xtra heat in the room. All black buckets cost about the same $5 a piece.
They don't care why you are buying so many.

Let me know if I can help with anything else.

 

[plumpm0nkey]

I will be running 10 5 gal buckets with a 55gal rez. i got a power head 250gph pump, DWC setup. should i ditch that pump and grab a clearance pump from wallyworld for 25$ thats a 600gph pond pump

 

[Hydropimp]

Depending on how many linear feet of tubing you will be running probably yes and I would go for something bigger remember you can always expand and put a ball valve at where the water comes out of the pump.

 

[plumpm0nkey]

ball valve!!!! hell yeah, i didnt think of that to regulate the flow. Hydropimp , would a filter be bad for the system? like a fish filter. Tnank you for the tips. Happy 4th

 

[Hydropimp]

You know now that you mention it I think I was thinking of a protein skimmer

 

[Hydropimp]

I did buy a cheap under water filter but no good.

What about one of those sucker fish?

 

[MID TOWN]

Not to get down on you but bio buckets are way over rated. the only thing they realy do is get rid of air pumps/stones and if you check out Blaze1ups recirc DWC it's a much more reliable system. MOST people who have tried the bio buckets have failed and almoast always to ROOT ROT. and MOST people that have run recirc DWC usualy have no problems.

BIO benefits- no air stones and a stable PH.

BIO disadvantages- the water line is kept above the net pot which can cause rot.
-No air stones so if anything disrupts the flow like even a semi blocked drain or builder error not getting a big enough pump or not having a proper water fall can all also cause rot from lack of oxygenation.

People complain about how airstones shit out and quit working but if they spent the money and got high quality ceramic airstones that wouldn't happen.


If you do go with the Bio Buckets then go way overkill on the pump, make sure to use a chiller and I would drop the water level below the net pots to avoid rot but then your gonna get roots clogging the drain much easier than when it was higher and with that ammount of flow it's almoast impossible to keep the roots out comppletely anyways.

bassicaly it's not the best design and I've yet to see someone pull of a large scale grow with them other than BT himself.

 

[EZB581]

I agree with cocktail frank & hydropimp!
As cocktail suggests, whether you have 10 or 20 bucket setup, You need a bigger pump than you think.
As hydro pimp suggests, If your pump "actually" puts out too much volume, a ball-valve on the pump's output to control it is a good idea. Consider directing any extra water back into the rez. This will help aerate/oxygenate the water.

Hydropimp & cocktailfrank, I get the impression that some earlier bio bucket designs used skimmers & maybe wet-dry filters. I'm interested in this concept. I have some knowledge biological filtration of aquaria. Do you guys have any info or ideas along these lines? If so ,feel free to PM me so we don't high jack Blunted's thread.