My Beef with Norml.org

[Lugen]

Why do they not have Canadian lawyers listed on this site? I was dissappointed, they have tons of american lawyers, I would like a list of some top notch Canadian lawyers to protect us!!

*edit to say* Although they dont list Canadian lawyers they DO do ALOT of terrific work for the mj community, I just wanted to add that so people didnt think I was whinning about Norml, cause I know the DO TONS of good!!

 

[SativaJoe]

I was under the impression NORML was a US based 501 (c)(3) non-profit foundation, therefore deals with US reform. I'm sure canada has more than a few Pro-Pot related sites with the info your looking for.

 

[Batman]

I'll tell you what my problem is with NORML...

This is an organization that has done some very good things for the MJ cause since their inception many years ago, but I do think that they need to update much of their strategies.

For many, many years I donated a couple of thousand dollars to NORML every year, however, about 4 years or so ago, as I was about to send off my yearly check to them and I sent an email offering a few suggestions ragarding their use of the money that I send to them every year, I was promptly told to go fuck myself for all intents and purposes. Here's the story........

We all know that you can't pick up an issue of High Times magazine without seeing an advertisement in there about MJ prohibition being a terribly wrong thing, no?

Okay, well my position on the matter is that by spending money on placing advertisements in High Times and other similar publications amounts to basically "preaching to the chior". I mean, who are they trying to convince, the people who already smoke MJ?

I suggested that instead of spending the badly needed funds on placing advertisements in magazines that are probably 100% subscribed to, and read by people who already agree with NORML's position, and are already against this rediculous prohibition, that this money might be better put to use by placing advertisements in more mainstream publications, such as TIME, NEWSWEEK, GQ, ESQUIRE, et cetera.

If they placed their resources in the mainstream media, I believe that they would be able to reach, or at least inform a huge number of people that have never opened a High Times magazine.

Anyway, after a couple of emails and then a couple of telephone calls, it became clear to me that NORML wasn't interested in being aggressive, not like they were in the 70's anyway.

They had no interest in placing advertisements in the mainstream publications and want to stick with preaching their anti-prohibition message to the people who are already in agreement with their position.

I'm sorry, but I'm having significant difficulty in wrapping my brain around that strategy.

From that day forward, I stopped contributing to NORML, and started sending my money to MPP (marijuana policy project) and other organizations that are more concerned with REALLY forwarding our cause and bringing about the end of MJ prohibition.

Sure, NORML's advertisements look great and contain a wonderful message, but by limiting theyr efforts to people who already smoke or otherwise use Marijuana, they are accomplishing very little towards accomplishing our goal in my opinion.

well, I could go on much longer about this, and some of the details of this story would trulu amaze you all, I assure you. But I think I've made my point. Right or wrong, NORML will never see another cent from me, nor will they be supported by me in their efforts to convince marijuana users that MJ prohibition is a bad thing.

-bat

 

[Lugen]

www.norml.ca i believe is the Canadian version.

Very interesting story Batman, it's nice to hear about your donations, glad its going to an organization that its proactive in the mj movement.

I was just looking for a Canadian lawyer to put on retainer...

 

[gaiusmarius]

Great post Batman,

very good point. highly susspicious, why preach to the converted? in fact you make alot of good points in your posts in general.

peace
gm

 

[Marvin Martian]

Batman:

I have to agree with the major points of your post. Another thing I have noticed, is that they are not providing much coverage of successes associated with MPP. I know there is some history behind this, but on the other hand...........there is one goal in mind and it does not make any difference to me WHO accomplishes it, rather that they are working towards the goals. By my observations, MPP has done more for the cause in 10 years than Norml has in 30. I hope they are listening.............

 

[Darkness]

Anyone know of where to find MJ lawyers for Canada except for John Conroy, which everyone already knows about.

 

[Underground Man]

the N stands for national

 

[Templedogs]

Did you try norml.CA ????? and norml does not pay for the ads in HT...from what I understand Tom Forcade had left a percentage of profits of HT to go to Norml....however I think some underhanded sh*t went down and they got screwed out of what they were due...so HT throws them a bone by giving them free adspace.

 

[I.M. Boggled]

This is an organization that has done some very good things for the MJ cause since their inception many years ago, but I do think that they need to update much of their strategies.

I agree with your assessment, many of these old tired so called "proven strategies" simply are not enlightening the right people...
"Mainstream Mom and Pop" society is were the message needs to be delivered, In the U.S., the "Marijuana Policy Project" lobbying efforts excel at this, imho, (given their budget restraints...) by consistently infusing an intelligent message in an intelligent manner at relevent times in the various political conversations across the land.

Counteracting the many lies regarding Cannabis is not an easy task, so ingrained through the generations is the "common wisdom"/ perceptions of "marijuana" as being very bad and overall harmful in all respects type of thing...

"When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous, and its speaker, a raving lunatic."
-Dresden James-

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The Canadian version of Norml is just that,
"A National organization to reform Marijuana Laws in Canada"...
Being technically a seperate Non-Profit, public interest, chartered entity, with a completely different board of directors and such, I would speculate...
(i'd have to fact check/compare the board of directors..)
http://norml.ca/


Official Policy
NORML Canada
STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES [/B]
http://www.norml.ca//index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=3&MMN_position=6:6
They have a forum at the Canadian site, that may be a possible place to come up wth locale specific attorney recommendations.

 

[I.M. Boggled]

Source: MarijuanaNews.Com with Richard Cowan
.................................................................................................

NORML Issues Statement On Reported Dispute With High Times.
No Fighting In The War Room.

Statement issued by the NORML Board of Directors

December, 22, 1999

In response to erroneous reports recently posted on the internet, the NORML board of directors wishes to clarify its relationship with High Times Magazine.

High Times Magazine has been a strong supporter of NORML and its efforts to legalize marijuana since the magazine was founded and it remains so today. The two organizations have worked cooperatively over many years to oppose marijuana prohibition and to end the destructive policy of arresting responsible marijuana smokers.

Unsubstantiated allegations have recently been made alleging that the legal trust which manages High Times Magazine has misappropriated millions of dollars which should have been awarded to NORML as a named beneficiary under the trust, and that NORML is preparing to sue High Times to recover these funds. While we will continue to exercise due diligence, the NORML board has reviewed this matter and is aware of no factual evidence to support these allegations and we have no plans to litigate this matter.

We look forward to continuing our close relationship with High Times and to the day when our mutual efforts will end marijuana prohibition in America and throughout the world.


(end)

(Marijuananews note:
I am in a somewhat "delicate" position in commenting on this. I am on the Board of the NORML Foundation, not the legal entity involved in this.
However, I am also the former National Director of NORML, and am a "Senior Policy Advisor" – a purely honorific position, although I do give them advice, but not on this.

1. When the founder of High Times died in the 1970s his will created a trust, and NORML was one of two beneficiaries of this trust.
NORML has received nothing from the trust.
Copies of the trust agreement have suddenly been more widely distributed than the magazine, and there have been reports and rumors that NORML was about to sue High Times.

2. NORML is just now recovering from a prolonged an utterly senseless legal battle with a group of former directors that was as expensive as it was absurd.
Consequently, the Board is naturally very reluctant to become involved in more litigation that would be very expensive, pit NORML against the largest publication in the movement, and which would probably yield nothing for many years, if ever.

3. This matter has been widely promoted by Ed Rosenthal, who has written on marijuana growing for High Times for years.
He has a legal dispute of his own with HT, and has never been a friend of NORML.
On the contrary, he has attacked NORML in High Times, but now he is trying to get NORML to fight the magazine.

4. High Times has given NORML a free ad as well as space for a column in the magazine for many years and has helped with the two Hempilation albums. Revenues from these were crucial to NORML’s survival in the past.
There are certainly other marijuana reform organizations that would welcome having HT’s support.
This would not only hurt NORML, but in some cases it would be very bad for the reform movement, if a less effective organization were promoted by HT. Also there is an old saying that it is foolish to get into fights with people who buy ink by the barrel.

5. The definition of profits and the proper use of revenues are not subjects on which everyone agrees. Consequently, even if one knew all the numbers, it might not be clear whether things were handled properly.

6. It is nonetheless disturbing to me that during the 3 years that I was National Director of NORML and working regularly with HT that we were never even told of the existence of the trust, and HT has not been forthcoming in providing the information that could lay to rest any doubts about the matter.

7. I have been surprised to find that so many people have an animosity toward HT. HT would do well to consider why this is so and be open with its readers and the movement about the facts in this case.

8. Under the circumstances, I think that the NORML Board made the right decision in this matter. The movement has enough enemies without fighting with strategic allies.)
9. I will have nothing further to say on the matter.

http://www.marijuananews.com/marijuananews/cowan/norml_issues_statement_on_report.htm

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HIGH IN AMERICA by Patrick Anderson
"The True Story Behind NORML and the Politics of Marijuana".
Published by The Viking Press, 1981
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/highinamerica.htm
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From:THE TOM FORCADE STORY
http://www.acidtrip.com/secure/forcade.htm

“There was trouble at High Times.
Sometimes in the course of events, a man will conceive of a business, found a business, work a business and develop a business.
Then the business becomes a corporation. A corporation of many shareholders and the corporation gets a Board of Directors.
Finally, a lot of these people turn around and they say fuck you to the owner, founder and developer.
That’s when the accountants and lawyers take over.

“Of course, they did that after he died.
But when they tried to do it while he was alive, he got wind of it.
Forçade was a brilliant theoretician. The story went that he was flying in a plane back to New York and he realized that they were about to throw him out of the magazine, out of the Trans-High Corporation.
He was reading through the bylaws and he realized that they hadn’t held an annual meeting of the shareholders.
The shareholders consisted to some degree of High Times employees, cause he had promised them a piece of the company the same way as Bill Gates eventually did, right?

“So what he did when he arrived in New York, he chartered a bus---a small bus---and then he walked around the offices of Trans-High Corporation and he leaned over to those people who he knew were loyal to him and said, ‘I’d like to invite you for lunch this afternoon. There will be a bus downstairs.’
Of course, I wasn’t there so this is all hearsay.
He put together a group of good loyal people and brought them to lunch. Then at the conclusion of lunch, he announced that they were going to have a shareholders meeting.
They had a shareholders meeting, they voted the bastards out and Forçade reigned again.
He was a good politician and a statesman.”...