Mini-Split AC install

[Pandemic]

I have a few quick questions regarding the final hook-up of my AC unit.

I purchased a 1 ton Ramsond mini-split. I'm sure you have all read or heard about these units. They state that no professional instillation is necessary, pre-charged lines and quick connects.

I have everything set up and all that is left to do is hook up the lines. Here is where my questions come in.

From most information on-line the charge is for a 15' line set. Mine was supplied with a 7.5m or 24.5'

What will the effect of an additional 10 feet be if in fact my unit came charged for a 15' line?

The lines come charged with dry nitrogen and are capped. Upon removing my lines from the box I discovered one cap (to the smaller line) laying in the bottom of the box.

What effect will this have?

I have a vacuum pump but no manifold gauge set. They are $100.00 plus.

I am using this to cool a 2.4K grow.

Two 1K light in air cooled hoods.

I know 12,000BTU is an overkill but it was not much more than the 9,000BTU system (I was brought up to believe that bigger is always better) plus I have BTUs to grow into (pun intended).

Due to local laws concerning grow rooms I am hesitant to call in a professional and am relying on some IC stoner to have HVAC experience.

The supplied install guide is absolutely no help and is just a general guide that covers many units.

I can have this unit running at less than peak efficiency but I don't want to damage it by taking a short cut or simply not knowing.

If it matters it is R410a

Give it up guys, what should I do?

Pandemic

 

[dongle69]

Give it up guys, what should I do?

Pandemic

Call the manufacturer!

:smile:

 

[Pandemic]

That did not answer either of my two questions.

Don't you think that would have been my first course of action?

I do not speak Chinese. Perhaps you could act as an interpreter???

Any other bright ideas dongle69?

You can get one more post out of this if you answer back...



P

 

[dongle69]

You don't have to speak Chinese, they are in Michigan.
Here is the support number:
1 248 363 8302
They are quite helpful.
They should be able to accurately answer both of your questions.
I don't know why you wouldn't want to call them.
They would know more than anyone on these forums.
If that was your first course of action, what did they say?
No need to get upset.

 

[BonsaiBud]

When you found the cap to the smaller line fallen off, was that what formed the hermetic seal to the lines? There may be some metal or lead seal that is broken when a hollow tip pin punctures it when you bolt the lines on. If the seal was superficial then I would say to just hook it up and it would be fine.

Now being a proper grower, you want to maximize everything. You could get manifold gauges and a vacuum pump. All you need to do is draw the small hose down to a good vacuum, or both. You may be able to take the open line down to an auto shop that does AC. Just have them draw a vacuum on it if possible. I wouldn't worry about an extra 10 feet of dry nitrogen in the lines. It would be moist air in the small line that could lead to trouble. Just don't vacuum the evaporator or condenser/compressor.

You could also just have an auto shop blow dry nitrogen into the line then you could tape it over with electrical tape to get it home. That would be a lot better than moist air in the line.

R410a is a refrigerant proprietary to the home/industrial AC world. It may take special manifold valves. It may use special oils that are incompatible with R134a, mineral oil, and the various dies and gunk found in most mechanic's auto AC gauges. Yet another option: get manifold gauges for it and a small canister of dry nitrogen and just purge the lines as you hook them up. You probably won't be your hands on a cylinder of R410a w/o a refrigeration tech license. That said, I'm sure some place on the internet would sell it to you. In this case, purge the lines with refrigerant as you hook them up.

Long story short, it is the moisture and oxygen in the open line that pose any real threat. There may not be ports on the line itself so blowing it out with nitrogen may be your best bet. 12,000 BTU = more R gases and less affect from longer lines.

 

[ARTofMAKINGfire]

Pandemic! Yes it DOES matter that you are adding an extra 10 feet to the line set. Especially when using R410a as a refrigerant. This is the 'new' gas that has no CFC's, BUT it operates at nearly double the pressures, SO USE CAUTION.
First off, why ANY company would advertise a split system as DO IT YOURSELF is stupid, you need a certain knowledge regardless...
Having a lower than needed amount of R410a will cause your AC to not work to it's full potential. It will produse cold air, but you will be adding stress to other components, like your compressor, which will have to work HARDER. The best bet is call someone. If you choose not to, DO NOT USE STANDARD GAUGES! YOU NEED GAUGES MADE SPECIFICALLY FOR R410a!! THE HIGHER PRESSURES WILL BLOW A NORMAL MANIFOLD APART. You could get hurt, and you would lose your entire charge. I have all the necc. equipment right outside in my truck! I should start a stoner HVAC company...
I hope this helps. PM me if you have anymore questions... I am a full-time HVAC tech...

EDIT: DO NOT TAKE THE ABOVE ADVICE POSTED BY BONSAI! "BLOWING OUT" a line set with nitrogen requires proper gauges and connections. Plus, you would'nt want to OPEN your line set PERIOD! This would require you to purchase an R410a manifold and gas! You want to AT LEAST keep the charge you have. DO NOT open the line set. This will ALLOW moisture and "non-condensables" into your system. And do you know what happens when your condenser tries to condense water (which CANNOT be condesed) ??? BOOM! Your whole AC is fucked! So my advice, if you don't want to call anyone AND you don't wanna spend $ on tools you'll probably use once or twice, then let it run a little "undercharged". It is your best bet, and you don't have to pay anymore money. Just remember, it won't be able to cool as effeciently, (This does not mean it won't get as cold, it may use more electricity as you condenser runs more...) and it will shorten the lifespan of your unit. Again PM if you have more questions... And be CAREFUL! R410a operates with a head pressure of 750 psi (pounds per square inch) you DON'T want that line bursting on you... Ouch. GOOD LUCK! STAY SAFE!

 

[BonsaiBud]

750 psi high side. Oh wow. The tools are tons of fun to use.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Hey Art, do you think its possible for someone to install a split system with no A/C experience even if they bought or rented the proper tools? Just thinking about the next setup and obviously not interested in having an AC tech come out.

 

[ogatec]

its definitley possible, you just need to read the insrucions well, mabey have a little experince & talk to the support people on the phone & the local ac supply people to get thru it. i would call the tech support people 1st to see what tools you wil need & make sure & dont skimp in that dept.

my buddy installed 2 units with no previous experiance, although he was a "construction" type, who is good with his hands. now he is the local expert on the matter. he told me when i buy mine he can install it in about 15min.

brand matters like anything else so if you go cheap expect problems. i recommend the freidrich brand.

www.friedrich.com

 

[Despie]

ahhh to bad i dident post my free ac thread before u bought that split....hope it last for u dude...and AC system cycleing as much as your is going to is not good for the compresser!

 

[BonsaiBud]

Free AC? Do mean something along the lines of Craigslist + window unit + sheet metal, HVAC tape, and HVAC hoses?

Oh I'm sorry, I remember recommending somebody get a mini-split for a greenhouse. when cost is no factor...but cost is always relevant.

Pandemic, can you take some close-ups of the ends of those refrigerant lines? I'm curious to see what a "pre charged" or "dry nitrogen filled" line looks like.

 

[ARTofMAKINGfire]

Hey Art, do you think its possible for someone to install a split system with no A/C experience even if they bought or rented the proper tools? Just thinking about the next setup and obviously not interested in having an AC tech come out.

It depends on your previous mechanical no how...
If you know how to braize copper pipes using a B tank, if you have a general knowledge of how ac works, and if you have all the required tools it IS possible to get things going, but if something breaks and you're depending on that system to cool lights, (and obviously wouldn't want some outsider soming IN, which is the problem to begin with) you could be in trouble.
To my understanding, Pandemis is installing a "puron" type system in which he doesn't have to make any welds... The line set he has just clips in using these new well, clips.

@Bonsai- You'd be surprised. The tools (gauges really) are used the same. The main difference is that there are high limit pressure cutoffs (so if somethings goes wrong, it will kill the ac before BLOWING up the pipes due to high pressure) and low limit pressure switches... Does the same thing on the low side, preventing things from freezing.

All in all, if you have the proper tools, I can help you (and I'm sure there are others) or walk you through pretty much any problem, even if something goes wrong in the future, or if people are having problems with thier ac and have the balls to try and fiz it themselves. Anyone can PM with questions about ac, and for you's in the COLD COLD, I know heat as well. Oil fired, gas, even old kerosene heaters... I can help you's. You got your cannabis cooling tech right here. For ALL your cannabis cooling needs...

I swear, the day this plant is legalized in the states, I'm opening a business geared towards the cooling of grow ops! Cannabis Cooling!

Edit: Pandemic - If you are worried about your compressor cycling too much you can spend $86 and buy a compressor HARD START kit. Which is a capacitator that stores an electric charge. Adn when the compressor is called to kick on, it uses a jolt of electricity to HARD START it which gives it a sort of PUNCH of power, instead of heating up and starting slow which eventually melts the windings in the compressor and brings you inevidably closer to a compressor burnout. http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=c-chsk
I can show you how to wire that in, it's no more than four wires, some wire nuts, and electrical tape... It will help, alot.

 

[Pandemic]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I owe dongle69 an apology, I didn't mean to be a butt.

I am the type that sits back reading and searching not caring about my post count. When I see people not reading the questions, or just posting a reply for the sake of posting a reply it gets under my skin.

Thanks for finding the number that I couldn't.





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