Michigan MMj~ State App Questions

[MIway]

So, I got into a bit of a snag today... ended up in cuffs, in the back of a State troopers car, but that's not why I'm posting. Questions have to do with my conversation (at times almost a debate) with the trooper:

~ I was explicitly told that the State is taking close to 6 months to respond, and that the MO + Cert Mail receipt, along with the Dr's rec & app itself, would qualify as my 'proof' of legal submission... and that there is a 21 day waiting period the State will use to before they cash the check (making it a valid app), but once 21 days goes from the time of mailing, is where the clock begins. And that they wouldn't likely cash it in 21 days, as it would sit in a stack waiting to be processed. And that if they do not decline the app w/in a month, it is considered a legal proof of registry.

Cop tells me that they are mailing a letter with a certification stamp once they receive & cash the check... the first I've heard of this. And that only this page would qualify in lieu of a card, and that they still could arrest me, regardless as only the card itself makes it valid. It's been a good month from when I sent my shit in, and nothing from the State... didn't expect anything for months.

Q: was the cop lying to me about this? he was claiming my papers invalid & threatening to arrest me.


~ I am of the understanding that 'sales' are not stipulated for except that a CG may charge for their services as it relates to supplying a patient, presumably just their patients. And that patients could give to one another, just not sell.

Cop asks me where I got my weed (had a 1/4+ in a jar in my bag)... and I told him another patient gave it to me, hoping to avoid the buying issue altogether. He says I just admitted to a felony & that the law does not allow for patient to patient transfers and that it is specifically illegal.

Q: again, was he lying to me on this point? that it is specifically 'illegal'... truly believed this to be one of the gray areas...???


Also, he told me that they are going with a State registry where cops can access the database & that they will be applying a tox screening when pulled over & that a 4 hour minimum is needed between medicating & driving...???

Also, also, I didn't know it is 6 points on the record if you deny a blood test... which he was threatening me with... does that seem right? Just for denying the test & forcing them to get a warrant, regardless if I fight it & win? Again, I've got to question this.



Thanks to anyone that has some insight here from MI. No arrest, just a ticket for the vehicle, though he did take me to the station. Have to admit, he was very polite & respectful... and even engaged me in debate (think I talked myself out of the situation... I offered the solution he eventually went with), but this is my first actual pullover for this in all the years... and yes, I got lax... it was really my own damn fault.

Counting my blessings... going to buy some lotto tickets tonight!

Actually another question... do you think he was just sweating me & never had the intention of arresting? I mean, did I really talk myself out of the situation? Or did he just go through the motions to fuck with me? I'm still trippin a bit... sigggggghhhhhh

 

[Tuhder]

~ I was explicitly told that the State is taking close to 6 months to respond, and that the MO + Cert Mail receipt, along with the Dr's rec & app itself, would qualify as my 'proof' of legal submission... and that there is a 21 day waiting period the State will use to before they cash the check (making it a valid app), but once 21 days goes from the time of mailing, is where the clock begins. And that they wouldn't likely cash it in 21 days, as it would sit in a stack waiting to be processed. And that if they do not decline the app w/in a month, it is considered a legal proof of registry.

That statement is correct, Except their not taking that long, More like 3 to 4 months top's.

Cop tells me that they are mailing a letter with a certification stamp once they receive & cash the check... the first I've heard of this. And that only this page would qualify in lieu of a card, and that they still could arrest me, regardless as only the card itself makes it valid. It's been a good month from when I sent my shit in, and nothing from the State... didn't expect anything for months.

Incorrect. Plain and simple, This officer is misinformed. There has NEVER been a certification stamp or anything issued back to the applicant stating or certifying your approval. Your paperwork and proof that the state cashed your check is all you need as your temporary card, This is clearly stated in the act, Which im assuming he did not read. But that doesn't mean he cant arrest you, He can arrest you for looking at him funny.

~ I am of the understanding that 'sales' are not stipulated for except that a CG may charge for their services as it relates to supplying a patient, presumably just their patients. And that patients could give to one another, just not sell.

First part is correct, Last sentence is incorrect. Patient to patient transfers are not stipulated and are therefor illegal. Its been argued up and down and all around man, Its not in the act = its fuckin illegal.

Cop asks me where I got my weed (had a 1/4+ in a jar in my bag)... and I told him another patient gave it to me, hoping to avoid the buying issue altogether. He says I just admitted to a felony & that the law does not allow for patient to patient transfers and that it is specifically illegal.

He's correct. The law doesn't allow for patient to patient transfers, It's not in the law, At all. So what's that mean!??? Yep, It's fuckin illegal. A felony? Doubt it.

I have seen you around, I thought you were a pretty smart guy, until now. Well there's always next time for invoking your 5th amendment right. Damn dude, You broke the 1st rule! They are asking for a reason, CAUSE THEY DONT KNOW ANYTHING! We all make mistakes bro, Im just giving you a hard time.

Also, he told me that they are going with a State registry where cops can access the database & that they will be applying a tox screening when pulled over & that a 4 hour minimum is needed between medicating & driving...???

Thats a certified rumor, Right from a cops mouth. It may be something their about to implement to bust patients and caregivers who think the card will protect them while driving. They have assloads of loopholes that will get your MMJ defense thrown out before you ever step foot into a courtroom. This sounds like one of them. Endangering the public by driving high? Your a DUI, not a MMJ patient.


Im surprised he did not arrest you for that big bad felony! Hahaha. Man this cop had a fuckin hard on for you dude. He bullshitted with you till he got everything he wanted from you, Plain and simple, You played HIS game, He did NOT play yours...Dont get it twisted and think you pulled something off. He never intended on arresting you after he figured out what was going on and he may have even liked you a bit, But he still left you believing you could be arrested at any moment, Didn't he?

They always smile and make you believe their doing you a favor while fucking you in the asshole


Heres what everyone needs to understand in Michigan. Marijuana is illegal, Period. The MMMA is a very slight exception, If something your questioning is not clearly stated in the act or not answered by the act, It's illegal. End of story. No gray area's. It's illegal if its not in the act.

Im trying to impress on you the mindset of our state government with everything I wrote here, everything I wrote up top^^^^^ is the way they see it.

The reality is, There are gray areas. How about the section of the act that states you as a MMMP cardholder can obtain your marijuana from ANY source (The word "any" means, a legal or illegal source) if your primary caregiver cannot provide that marijuana to you. This would include another patient BUT, only one patient can remain on the right side of the law in that transaction. One patient is obtaining it legally while the other patient is distributing it illegally. If you were the one obtaining it then you were on the right side of the law but its best to keep your mouth shut and let your lawyer hash those details out, Thats HIS job to do in court, Not your job to do standing face to face with an officer on the side of the road. Your job is to keep your mouth shut at all costs so you dont make his job harder or even impossible to do.

I have 4 patients under me and myself, so thats 5. I stay within the legal growing limit which is 60 plants, Besides that I treat it exactly the same as I did 10 years ago, Hide! No dealing to dispensaries, no compassion clubs, nothing to expose myself or put myself in danger.

Stay safe!

 

[MIway]

Im surprised he did not arrest you for that big bad felony! Hahaha. Man this cop had a fuckin hard on for you dude. He bullshitted with you till he got everything he wanted from you, Plain and simple, You played HIS game, He did NOT play yours...Dont get it twisted and think you pulled something off. He never intended on arresting you after he figured out what was going on and he may have even liked you a bit, But he still left you believing you could be arrested at any moment, Didn't he?

They always smile and make you believe their doing you a favor while fucking you in the asshole

Your job is to keep your mouth shut at all costs so you dont make his job harder or even impossible to do.

I totally feel ya bro... and it is all very well received. tapped today, but tomo I'll get you.

I do feel like an ass... been up all night.

Truthfully, and ignorantly, I felt that w my paperwork & such a small amount... why not cooperate, esp w being courteous & all... I actually didn't feel that I had anything to 'hide'. And I do actually have one of the lawyers cards in my wallet... which i didn't pay any attention to...???

Dunno... a first for me, and it is bothering me. Can't help but feel the way I went about it... yeah, well, fuck. Fuck.

 

[Tuhder]

Its cool man, Like I said, We all make mistakes and from the sound of it, Your mistake was not a very big one. You will learn from this and be smarter because of it.

But next time if LEO ask's where you got your weed you say one of two things, From my caregiver or say nothing at all. Im surprised you said from a patient rather than from my caregiver.

Im curious, What did he charge you with? Was this a trooper, County or local official?

 

[MIway]

Trooper & just a citation for the vehicle, made me call someone to pick me up, though didn't impound the car, just left it on the road.

I gave the response, because at the time thought it to be the 'safest'... it's my gear, haven't 'purchased' weed in quite some time, but didn't have the card for long enough to explain growing my own. wanted to avoid the 'sales' issue entirely through a dispensary, that seemed more sketchy as this is kinda still up in the air. and i didn't have any cg designation forms or anything to say my cg. dunno... at the time, it seemed the least incriminating answer... another legal patient gave it to me, as a gift, no sale.

What you pointed out was one of my mistakes, no doubt... shouldn't have answered. I still don't know... made a call today, and the response was similar to yours... say as little as possible. Nother guy told me that the troopers are pretty bad, should have been busted, good i cooperated... no idea still.

It's difficult at the actual moment... 'know' to say as little as possible, yet to do so elevates the situation... and he had me in the 'wrong' on an issue, not weed related... the actual ticket. I was a bit stupid, a bit lucky... and need to tighten my shit back up... medi is no excuse.

 

[CANNATOPIA]

Glad your Ok friend. Best of luck with MI's confusing MMJ laws. I hope they soon make some amendments to help sort out these serious issues.

 

[dagnabit]

and that there is a 21 day waiting period the State will use to before they cash the check (making it a valid app), but once 21 days goes from the time of mailing, is where the clock begins.

this is completely incorrect!

you have 21 days from the day they CASH YOUR CHECK!
you must retain proof of the date the MMMP cashes your application check.

the AG is pushing to "clarify" mmj in mi in that law are some pretty restrictive clauses (they are trying to outlaw disps. and Patient to patient.

right now as these things are not addressed they are not technically illegal(contrary to other posters beliefs)the MMMP is not a charter of negative liberties(no law is except for those creating prohibitions).

certain municipalities have decided(illegally)to interpret the law as they see fit. they have decided on their own P2P and disps. are illegal. they have also decided that collective growing and grows for multiple patients in the same home are illegal.

Program Status Update (6/10/2011): Application Forms and Instructions are available for printing from this website.

Currently staff is issuing registry identification cards for valid applications received mid-February.

caregiver cards take even longer.

 

[paladin420]

State police narc units are hittin up north caregivers and 'inspecting' to see plant limits etc. 1 caregiver popped 1 hear..
They can check mine. Right after they suck my Mangina

 

[dagnabit]

wouldn't be a bad deal to have a link to the states "current status" page bookmarked if you are a CG.
http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,1607,7-154-27417_51869---,00.html

you will find the text of the act and the admin rules on the above page as well.

here is the AG's official opinion
http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2010s/op10338.htm

as for the "certified rumor" it's been introduced on the senate floor as SB:377

WITHIN 48 HOURS AFTER
15 ISSUING A REGISTRY IDENTIFICATION CARD, THE DEPARTMENT SHALL
16 FORWARD INFORMATION CONCERNING ISSUANCE OF THE CARD TO THE
17 DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE. THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE SHALL
18 MAKE THE INFORMATION CONCERNING REGISTRY IDENTIFICATION CARDS
19 AVAILABLE TO STATE AND LOCAL POLICE OFFICERS IN A FORM THAT ALLOWS
20 IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INFORMATION NECESSARY TO DETERMINE WHETHER AN
21 INDIVIDUAL IN CUSTODY FOR POSSESSION OR DISTRIBUTION OF MARIHUANA
22 POSSESSION IS A QUALIFYING PATIENT OR PRIMARY CAREGIVER.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2011-SIB-0377.pdf

then there is SB:418
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2011-SIB-0418.pdf

even scarier

 

[Tuhder]

Damn, its starting to get ugly isn't it?

 

[Builtaforest]

Give Bill Schuette a piece of your mind!

517-373-1110

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

takes me a average of 4 month to get my cards... i just did 3 patients 3 months ago got two of the cards still waiting on the third... all done on same day all cashed all sent the same day... cops a lying fuckwad.


patient to patient transfers are 100% legal... ill say that again PATIENT TO PATIENT TRANSFERS ARE 100% legal... thats how the dispensaries are still open.

there is no michigan database they are trying to do that but right now it is illegal and is not in the paper work. as for the screening there is no way to tell if you just smoked or smoked 20 days ago. cops lying just dont EVER EVER EVER admit to smoking even the DAY of the interatction with the police.
cop cannot give you a drug test... and even if he could like i said they are trying to get you to snitch on yourself. they cannot tell AT ALL if you smoked or not just if you snitch on yourself.


last question answer was he was trying to get youto slip up and snitch on yourself... cops dont tell truth ever they LIE LIE LIE...

you are fine everything the cops said was a total lie.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

State police narc units are hittin up north caregivers and 'inspecting' to see plant limits etc. 1 caregiver popped 1 hear..
They can check mine. Right after they suck my Mangina

its illegal for cops to come and check on plant limits... there has to be a warrant for growing weed and on top of that the judge HAS to know its a MEDICAL room or the warrant is no good.

people get lawyers and stop giving up your rights.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

schuette is a fuck wad all he does is introduce illegal bills and make us fight them... hes been doin this for two years nothing new...

they will all be out of office in another year and a half. The MMJ movement has went political in michigan expect to see commercials all over for our side soon... we are fighting back and doing it the right way... politically.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

i have to totally disagree with turdher on alot of what he said... im very close with the people that make the laws and i know everything i said was right...

him saying patient to patient is not legal is false as shit... otherwise EVERY dispensary would be raided....

and if its not in the act doesnot make it illegal. it is a grey area. They will take you to court and you can fight it. Whoever wins will set a precedent in court for the rest of the state. does not make it illegal makes it undefined and a tight line to walk. but not illegal.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

I totally feel ya bro... and it is all very well received. tapped today, but tomo I'll get you.

I do feel like an ass... been up all night.

Truthfully, and ignorantly, I felt that w my paperwork & such a small amount... why not cooperate, esp w being courteous & all... I actually didn't feel that I had anything to 'hide'. And I do actually have one of the lawyers cards in my wallet... which i didn't pay any attention to...???

Dunno... a first for me, and it is bothering me. Can't help but feel the way I went about it... yeah, well, fuck. Fuck.

you did what you were suppose to do.. you were not in the wrong you were following mich law. he was a ass lying to you trying to get you to snitch on yourself. you didnt get arrested because you did nothing wrong. the system is a failure not us.

 

[Midnight]

You have the right to remain silent. Next time use it!

 

[Tuhder]

i have to totally disagree with turdher on alot of what he said... im very close with the people that make the laws and i know everything i said was right...

him saying patient to patient is not legal is false as shit... otherwise EVERY dispensary would be raided....

and if its not in the act doesnot make it illegal. it is a grey area. They will take you to court and you can fight it. Whoever wins will set a precedent in court for the rest of the state. does not make it illegal makes it undefined and a tight line to walk. but not illegal.

Insert foot in mouth Tbag, I know my state. Weed is ILLEGAL in the state of Michigan, get over it. Oh wait, You got a fancy card that says otherwise?

I would be really interested to see how much a card helps you in our legal system when caught say....growing 72 plants.

Its really sad to say and I never thought I would say this, But the people of the state of Michigan should have never passed that act. I know hind site is 20/20 but it was just the wrong act to pass.

 

[gingerale]

Um...it depends on where you live. Some municipalities, yes that paperwork and/or card will indeed protect you. But if you step over the line, they will bust you. And yes.. patient to patient is 100% LEGAL. It's IN the Act. The "acquisition" and "transfer" of marijuana is specifically covered as valid Medical use for registered (or even unregistered, via the Affirmative Defense clause!) patients. What the court recently ruled on is that BUSINESSES who act as agents to assist in the "sale" of medical marijuana are public nuisances under the Health Code and *may* be shut down by the local authorities. Transfers, for free or for monetary consideration (but not a "sale"...so call it a donation or something) , from patient-patient or caregiver-patient IS 100% legal and covered.

PTB: Wait...are you saying that if the cops show up at my house with a warrant looking for an illegal grow, and I inform them at the door that it is a medical grow and show card/paperwork, their warrant is no longer valid to search the premises? And I don't even have to let them in to look? Is that really true?

 

[paladin420]

The way I understand it If you are a caregiver they need a court ordered warrant not just signed by a judge.And the court must be made aware you are a MMJ caregiver...Not that the law would stop LEO from doin what they want..like shoot your dog terrorize your kids and what other fun they choose...Cops give cocksuckers such a bad name IMHO of course..