Mg deficiency?

[pescador]

I had just transplanted them about 1 and a half week ago after flushing. The soil consists of organic potting soil bought at a supermarket for flowering plants, and I added about 20% worm castings and some fox farm seafood marine cuisine, as well as some flowering bat guano which I also layered on top of the old soil area. Beneficial fungal spores were also added to the mix. This is the same mix I used in their original pots, minus the flowering bat guano.

I had just noticed a problem with scales creeping up the main stems, which I originally overlooked as being air-root bumps, and hopefully I took care of that with some tobaccos juice first applied with q-tips, and some olive/lavender/rosemary/eucalyptus oil mix. It seems to be workings as they are turning a rusty color now. I also have noticed about 1 or 2 small flies hanging around, which I fear could be fungus knats, but I rarely see them. If they persist (like if I see more than 2 at a time), I will take action ASAP.

Since the flush/transplant, I have been experiencing what seems like a mg deficiency, especially with the Jamaican. Though it may be a bit hard to see in the pics, i would greatly appreciate some help on this diagnosis. I originally though they were N deficient, so after adding that without success, it became a bit clearer as to what it could be. This over N addition is what I think explains the clawing and the rusty leaf tips (or is she K hungry?). I had been adding epsom salt sporadically to the waterings, but perhaps not enough. The PH seems to be at 6.8-7, though due to un-ideal testing methods, I cannot say with full confidence (I have a in soil cheap PH tester, which hovers around 7-6.8, and tested the upper layer of the old soil area by mixing a bit into neutral water and using my aquarium PH tester, which reads 7). I just gave them a bit of epsom salt, honey (which i have been consistently using along with a few drops of hydrogen Peroxide in most waterings), and some dolomite lime (done after these pics), but I fear with all my urgent attempts to add what I think is missing, some over watering may be taking place (ideally, I would want at least a day to go by between waterings, even though my cheap in soil moisture monitor says the soild is dry, even though I know it is not!). I also fear that the bat guano's high P content may have caused a lockout, though I will hold off a bit on a flush until I know for sure that nothing else is working.

Any advice and comments would be greatly appreciated!


Jamaicans












I also should say that I have been adding a 1/2 dose of an organic veg fert on most of my waterings in the past.

The Malawi99 is holding out better under the same conditions. I think I have read though that C99 (part of the cross with the malawi) can take high nute levels, which may explain the fact that she is doing better)




I would really apreciate help as I want to put them into flowering ASAP, but only when healthy.

 

[Brother_Monk]

Let the soil dry out to the point where the pots seem almost as light as air. The roots must have time to grow and search out water. You have pretty much answered your own questions at every turn. You know you added too much N, you know you need to keep up with the epsom salt. You just transplanted a few days ago after a flush. I would imagine they are hungry but can't find food because the soil is too wet to stretch their roots out to look for it. So the roots are just hangin' out in the same soil you just flushed...that has little to no nutrients in? Let them dry out so the roots will explore and find their way into the new soil surrounding them.

The Jamacians look sativa dom. If you were to go down to jamaica, and dig up some earth, you would see that the soil is very sandy/loam. The soil from the hometown where sativas grow is the soil you should be trying to reproduce in your garden. Lotsa drainage so the soil gets dry between waterings. Waiting a day until you water again is just way too soon. Over attentive disorder is showing here.

One more thing...your Ph is a little high if it is what you say. Shoot for runoff Ph of 6.2-6.5

Hope this helps.
Peace
BM

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

For what its worth they do not look bad. The outdoor pic looks just fine.

Youmay have lightly nuked them with N as you mention explaining the claw and burnt tips- don't add anymore N just yet.

I would stop the H2O2 as you are in an organic soil you are killing your microkiddies if used to strong or too much. But this is just my opinion.

As to your pH- if you have D.lime you should be ok. IMO.


Good luck friend,

minds_I

 

[pescador]

Brother Monk:

You are good at this! Over-attentive disorder indeed! After giving them 1.5 teaspoons of epsom salt with honey and dolomite lime (PH 7) in a little over 1/4 a gallon of water 2 days ago, as to not over-water, they have been kept dry ( I feel like a Jewish/Italian mom denying food to my starving (but already fat) kids. While it is hard to say if she is getting greener as I work from the home office and keep gazing at them every minute (maybe getting a bit greener), she is definitely perkier, and new growth seems very healthy! I will take some more pics to compare once the camera is charged.

I will follow your watering advice for sure from now on, especially into flowering. My next watering, if you concur, will be with plain water - maybe distilled water as I fear a high salt content in winter water here…due to all the salt applied to roads etc…and a teaspoon of epsom salt per gal. I will hold off for another day or 2 until the pot is light as you say. The Jamaican did come from the Portland Parish, which gets daily brief rainfall (keeps the tourists away), but my waterings may have been akin to monsoons. Now that I think of it, if it rains 5-10 minutes a day, I think that does not mean lots of water, especially in sandier soil (though Portland has some clay an humus type soil too) I also can't say for sure that the strain was grown in that Parish at all! But I bet wherever it grew, it was sandier than my mix is now.

When can I expect the leaves to fully go back to normal? It would be good to know this because i would like to diagnose for a flush ASAP if that is what is needed as oppose to adding too much mg and causing further problems.

As for the PH, I will bring it down, though i read here that mg and some other nutes get lock out at a PH bellow 6.5 http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688 and that 6.8 is best as a safe around level. Do you find this to be true? I will definitely go to 6.5 though.

Thanks a lot for all your great help! It really means a lot!

Minds_I

Thank you! However, the camera is a bit flattering to the plants The possible mg deficiency is more apparent to the naked eye. Those shots in the sun are taken indoors in the same grow room. I place them in the 3 way south facing window when the sun is constantly out for the day. I bought ceramic pots to keep the soil steady when moving them around, and hopefully minimize moving stress from the grow box area to the window. Hopefully, I can still do this when they are huge- in flower.

Great point about the H202. I have been adding that for 2 reasons: 1 to get rid of any chlorine in the tap water and 2: to keep the roots happy. I have been adding around 4-6 drops of 35% per gal. I figured that since it is in rain water, the bacteria have adapted and can handle a bit. Am I adding too much? Wait, I will try to do my own research on this before being lazy and asking you

Cheers!

 

[Brother_Monk]

Great point about the H202. I have been adding that for 2 reasons: 1 to get rid of any chlorine in the tap water and 2: to keep the roots happy. I have been adding around 4-6 drops of 35% per gal. I figured that since it is in rain water, the bacteria have adapted and can handle a bit. Am I adding too much? Wait, I will try to do my own research on this before being lazy and asking you

Cheers!

What are you using....Rainwater, Tap water or distilled???? Rainwater would be best out of the three. Salty tap water from road salts?? Do you have a well right next to a road? I wouldn't reccomend using distilled water, as it contains little or no heavy metals or micro-nutrients like calcium and magnesium. What I mean by "tap-water" is water that is supplied by the city/town that is chlorinated and Ph buffered.

 

[Brother_Monk]

As for the PH, I will bring it down, though i read here that mg and some other nutes get lock out at a PH bellow 6.5 and that 6.8 is best as a safe around level. Do you find this to be true? I will definitely go to 6.5 though.

My bad buddy!! I was just looking at my chart. 6.5 is ideal if you look for yourself. Do what you think is best...it's your grow!

Peace
BM

 

[pescador]

Thanks for that! So 6.5 is bes.

Yes, my grow perhaps, but had you not pointed this out, I would have stayed at 6.8-7, which is too high. Cheers!

 

[Brother_Monk]

Yeah, during veg, the Ph should be a little lower because they are not using as much P. When you get into flower, bump up the Ph a little to 6.7-6.8 as to allow better P uptake

BM

 

[pescador]

What are you using....Rainwater, Tap water or distilled???? Rainwater would be best out of the three. Salty tap water from road salts?? Do you have a well right next to a road? I wouldn't reccomend using distilled water, as it contains little or no heavy metals or micro-nutrients like calcium and magnesium. What I mean by "tap-water" is water that is supplied by the city/town that is chlorinated and Ph buffered.

Sorry, i missed this post. We have the same meaning for tap water. My fear was that at this time of the year, with all the salting that goes on around the many highways and roads around here, that the salt content of the tap water would be higher than ideal. I could be overly paranoid on this.

 

[pescador]

Yeah, during veg, the Ph should be a little lower because they are not using as much P. When you get into flower, bump up the Ph a little to 6.7-6.8 as to allow better P uptake

I prepared the soil for flowering. She has not been put into flowering yet because the girlfriend’s mom is sleeping over tonight and I will have to move the plants into another room. So she goes into flowering tomorrow with the set up all complete (hopefully). I will try to water with a PH of 6.7 from now on. Could it be that because the plant is not using the P yet, there is a mg lockout, and once she goes into flowering, the depletion of P will solve the problem?

It is hard to say actually if she is getting better. Perhaps she is greening more from the inside of the leaves, which creates more of a contrast with the outer parts of the leaves (progress), or she is further paling from the outer parts of the leaves (bad). Here are some pics taken today after the mg dose given 2 days ago now.

 

[pescador]

I don't know of this is a credible source, but the quote is from the middle of the page:

http://www.bellybytes.com/foodfacts/water_facts.html

"Salt used to give you better traction on roads in the winter can raise the sodium content of your tap water."

Also, is rain water not just distilled water with a bit of hydrogen peroxide and carbonic acid (and unfortunately these days, pollution?)

 

[pescador]

Here is a better source (1/4th down page):

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/water-eau/doc_sup-appui/sodium/index_e.html

An estimated 25 to 50 percent of salt used on roads for snow and ice control enters the ground water and can elevate levels of sodium in public water supplies.(6)Other potential sources of sodium contamination of water supplies are sewage and industrial effluents, seawater intrusion in coastal areas, and the use of sodium compounds for corrosion control and water-softening processes. Smaller quantities are introduced through leaching of sodium compounds from “normal” soils and the use of sodium hypochlorite for disinfection and sodium fluoride for control of tooth decay.

 

[Brother_Monk]

You are nit-picking man. If you can't taste the salt in your water you should be ok using it to water your plants. Your plants will suffer from your OCD. It's a weed man. Water it with small ammounts of ferts, let it dry out, repeat. You can complicate it all you want, but your plants will show your results. Let the plant tell you what it wants. Keep It Simple Stupid!

BM

 

[pescador]

lol. you are right...though I am traumatized from losing my last batch of 6 plants due to neglect (mites). Just want to deal with problems before they get worse. Will follow your advice doc.

Cheers

 

[pescador]

PH Problem solved

PH Problem solved

y figured out what was wrong. After just reading in some other threads about PH testing using excess drainage water, I did a PH test (my Malawi99 was bone dry). It was off the charts bellow 6! This is likely what caused an mg lockout and the plants were starting to show calcium def as well. I watered them both with water at a PH of 7.6 using dolomite lime and potassium silicate, and then another with 7. We will see what happens.


Lesson learned, never trust those cheap in-soil PH meters. I knew that they were not that good, but I thought that I could use them to give me a ball park figure. Not even close! As mentioned in my first post, I also tested the upper parts of the soil (putting some in a flask with neutral tap water). It came out as 7. So perhaps there the upper parts of the soil has a higher PH, and I hope I did not raise the PH of that part of the soil too much.

 

[Brother_Monk]

Yeah man, Ph is proly the most important aspect of growing Mj. If you aint got that locked down, you might as well give up. Cannot stress the importance enough of having a good Ph pen and having it properly calibrated. Strips are ok and so are the soil test kits. But if you really want to be sure, you have to get a pen and calibrate it often.

Hope it works out for you. Good luck with your grow.

Peace
BM

 

[pescador]

Yeah man, Ph is proly the most important aspect of growing Mj. If you aint got that locked down, you might as well give up. Cannot stress the importance enough of having a good Ph pen and having it properly calibrated. Strips are ok and so are the soil test kits. But if you really want to be sure, you have to get a pen and calibrate it often.

Hope it works out for you. Good luck with your grow.

Peace
BM

Thanks! Do you recommend testing runnoff water as the best way of measuring PH? And the plants are now doing great, the only issue being scales/mealy bugs that I am having issues controlling on the malawi99. I added more potassium silicate to their waterings to help increase cell wall strength while drowning the stem in neem.

 

[Core]

i will say its not the best way ...but thats my opinion...
i like 2 messeaure soils ph with distilled water...i think its a better way but that is my MO....

take a lillte soil down from the container ...and add a same amount of distilled water...sturr and let it sit for 5 minutes...put ph pen in and meseaure.....works like a charm

 

[pescador]

Thanks for that suggestion! By "down" you mean deeper in the pot than just the surface soil, right? I have thought of this but I was worried about damaging roots. Do you find this to be of concern?

 

[Core]

yes a little further down...if you feel roots stop....just a tablespoon is enough...but dont damage roots that aint nessecary..just dont go to deep and dont dig in the same places.....just pay a little attention that all...also replace the taken earth