Mg-deffiency in coco

[Cyklon]

Hey guys!

I have a small coco SOG-setup that I feed with Hesi coco nutes. I adjust the pH to around ~6.0 with given dosage of the nutes. Still my plats show mg-deffiency (and a little bit of P-deffiency too) and I can't figure out what´s the problem. At first I thought it might be due to overwatering, but the past days I have given the plants alot less of the nutrientsolution (but still not letting them dry out) and yet no sign of recovery.

I have bought mg that I'm planning to use for foliarfeeding, but it seems strange that I would have to do it. The nutes should be enough, or have I made any other mistake that I have not thought of yet?

Any of you guys have experienced mg-problems with Hesis coco nutes?
Would be thankful for some discussion.

Peace~

 

[cough_cough_eer]

cal-mag

cal-mag

I've never used hesi coco nutes,or any coco specific nutes,(I use advanced nutes) but cal-mag has been the most needed nute of them all..

 

[Blackvelvet]

How much of the hesi coco nutes are you using per liter or gallon? I have these numbers:
n 24%
p2o5 21%
k2o 27%

Do you have the % of calcium and magnesium on your bottle?

 

[Cyklon]

Cal-mag. I suppose you talk about Magnesium and Calcium.
The companies must be aware of the Mg-levels when making their products. It just seems strange that the formula would contain insufficient Mg. But maybe not?

How does cal-mag work together? Care to tell me a little bit more, or give me a link with more stuff to read?

Peace

 

[Cyklon]

How much of the hesi coco nutes are you using per liter or gallon? I have these numbers:
n 24%
p2o5 21%
k2o 27%

Do you have the % of calcium and magnesium on your bottle?

I live in europe so I don't know how much is a gallon.
24-21-27 is right, yes. The plants are in the second week of bloom and I mix 50 ml to 10 l of water (as said on the bottle).
And no, they only give % on the NPK, so it's impossible to tell how much mg is in the mix.

 

[Blackvelvet]

I mix 50 ml to 10 l of water

Flush! Flush! You should be only using about 1/10 this.

 

[Cyklon]

Whoot?
The label says:
Growth - 30 ml/10 l
Bloom - 50 ml/10 l

I use 20 l water + 100 ml nuteformula. How can this be wrong?

 

[Blackvelvet]

Step back from it. She's gonna blow!

Step back from it. She's gonna blow!

Your over 1200 ppm nitrogen! You use 100-200 ppm. Only need 100 in flower to keep leaves green but not encourage leafy growth.

Your sure these are your fert numbers? 24-21-27? Sure its not 2.4-2.1-2.7?

Assuming 1 ml = 1 gram
Your using 5 ml per liter (100 ml/20 liters)
5 grams x .24 = 1.2 grams per liter nitrogen
1.2 x 1000 = 1200 mg per liter nitrogen
1200 mg per liter = 1200 parts per million

She's gonna blow!!!

Here you can play with the calculator at the bottom of this page. Leave defaults at 1 and 1 at the top. Only enter total nitrogen like 24% once in either nitrate, ammonia, or urea but only enter it once. Enter 19 ml per gallon (5 ml per liter x 3.8 = 19 ml per gallon) Press calculate.

http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm

 

[Blackvelvet]

Ok...ok...

Ok...ok...

Didn't mean to scare you. Something is wrong with the npk numbers. Even their website says to use 50 ml per 10 liters. If you got magnesium deficiency, gently raise the mag level by using 1/2 teaspoon epsom salts per 20 liters. This will add 14 ppm magnesium. Not really much. See if things improve.

 

[Core]

Didn't mean to scare you. Something is wrong with the npk numbers. Even their website says to use 50 ml per 10 liters. If you got magnesium deficiency, gently raise the mag level by using 1/2 teaspoon epsom salts per 20 liters. This will add 14 ppm magnesium. Not really much. See if things improve.

did you ever meassure a teaspoon of magnesium sulfaat sproutco.....no i thought so ...i did ...thanks 2 you when you fuckt up my grow with bad advise ....when i first started out...1 theaspoon of epsom salt in 10 L is about 130 -180 PPM's so where the hell do you get 14 ppm of.....in 20 L of water???

i'll add ya qoute othwerwise you gonne make more post disapear....

edit:dont wanne klutter your topic cyklon ..but be carefull with the advise he just stated...

 

[bergerbuddy]

NO... Not in Coco DON"T USE EPSOM SALT!!... that might work in hydro or dirt even but NOT coco!..

Question What is ur water that ur using to mix like?? is it RO or tap? and if its tap do u know the PPM? Usually u don't need to do anything but keep your PH flucuating between say 5.9 to 6.1... down to 5.9 on plain water dayz... how often do u give them plain water?? how often do u water them until water comes out the bottom? how quick do they dry out if you DON"T water them??

Peace
BB

 

[Blackvelvet]

Yes! Yes! Add that epsom salts. There is magnesium sulfate aka epsom salts in his ferts already.

 

[Guest]

Don't flush unless you burned them (a few light feedings should be good enough). Don't add epsoms unless you are sure it is a Mg deficiency to begin with... it could be the pH outta whack.. I pm you some information, don't be afraid to hit me up

 

[Guest]

flora nova at the right dosage requires no additives... works better than canna nutes in my garden.

 

[Cyklon]

Don't flush unless you burned them (a few light feedings should be good enough). Don't add epsoms unless you are sure it is a Mg deficiency to begin with... it could be the pH outta whack.. I pm you some information, don't be afraid to hit me up

Thx alot bro! Unfortunately I have less than 50 posts so I cannot acess your PM Can I ask you to copy and send to my e-mail instead? [email protected]

Question What is ur water that ur using to mix like?? is it RO or tap? and if its tap do u know the PPM? Usually u don't need to do anything but keep your PH flucuating between say 5.9 to 6.1... down to 5.9 on plain water dayz... how often do u give them plain water?? how often do u water them until water comes out the bottom? how quick do they dry out if you DON"T water them??

I never give them plain water since I learned that coco holds no nutrients of its own. Before I flowered my plats I used tapwater that I know is hardwater with a high pH (~8). I adjusted the pH to 6 and gave them 30 ml/10l water every watering (every second day or so). Already here I could see a slight mg-deff. Then I put them in the flowering room with drip-irrigation (50ml/10l). The system had some minor failures so the feedings became somewhat irregular but I always kept the substrate moist. I thought the mg-deff symptoms might be due to overwatering so I used the same formula (50ml/10l) but giving them alot less of the solution. That´s how I've been doing the last days. Giving them water 1 time every day with the 50/10 mix. The water comes out of the pot every time.

Any more ideas?
~~~

 

[Cyklon]

I also remember one thing that might be the cause.

When I first soaked the dry cocoblock (Bionova) I mixed nutes with the tapwater and adjusted the pH to 6. I figured since the coco holds no nutrients I must add my own. It doesn't seem like this could be the source of the mg-deff, but I'm not a very experienced grower so please give you comments.

 

[CrunchNasty]

this sounds similar toa problem ive been having, i started mine in coco in 18 oz cups, gave them mild 1-1-1 gh fertilizer with r/o water and put them under a 1000, what happened next was really depressing, they started yellowing from the inside out on new leaves that were growing in weird directions and it was super slow too. i think its the light i put them under, because before i used a 400 mh and now its a 1000 hps. mabey your light was too strong and it freakd them out

 

[Cyklon]

-bump-

 

[Cyklon]

Cyclon, i didnt used Hesi coco, but i know many people who use it with good results at the reccomended dosage (50ml/10l). Just i dont like to add a nute wich i dont know its composition, and Hesi gives so little info about...

Anyway, you have a typical problem when growing in coco with hard water: Ca lockout. By using high ph, you reduced Ca uptake, and you are adding it both with your hard water and with nutes. Ca are accumulated in the media and dont let Mg+ ion be avalaible to roots.

To solve it, flush with distilled/RO water (adding a bit of epsom salts, about a teaspoon for 10l helps in riding off Ca, but anyway is very difficult ride it off once its accumulated), use a low ph for some time (5,4-5,6) in order ro increase Ca uptake and avoid using hard water. If you continue using it, you are going to have a general lockout, not only of Mg. While using such low ph, the mg uptake is going to be severely reduced, so foliar with a Epsom salts solution, but you need very little concentration in it (Mg is absorbed pretty well in foliar way, and its easy burning your plants if you use too much), only the tip of a teaspoon in 1l ow water.

Good luck

Thanks for the info, havn't read too much about waterchemistry yet. But I'm on it. I found out that my tapwater isn't that hard. I got some figures here that might help in solving my problem.

I have used both tapwater and ro-water. Before putting them in flowerroom I vegged them for ~1,5-2 weeks and used nutes mixed with tapwater (adjusted to 6.0 every time). I then put them in the drip-irrigation system which had a more fluctuating pH in the tank (between 6.0-6.6).
Could this be the cause of the imbalance? I use HESI for hardwater and my water is 6 dh which is counted (in Sweden) as semi-hardwater. Could this be a factor as well?

Here are some stats of my tapwater. This is before mixing with nutes of course.
pH 8.3
GH(Ca+Mg) - 43
dH - 6
Ca - 30 mg/l
Mg - 7 mg/l

Thank you for telling me that the Mg gets locked out due to high amount of Ca. I kind of thought so and wasn't comletely sure so thanks for being very clear wih me. What I'm pondering though, is that HESI should know about this when they design the nutes since the nutes are designed for hardwater. What do you think?

Boom!

 

[Cyklon]

So, the grow is finished and the Mg deff was due to really low pH in the growing media (4.2). So next questions is, what causes a low pH when the nutrientsolution has been pH~5.5-6.5?

Is it the fluctuation that causes it? What is the reason that salts starts to accumulate in the growing media like that?

Bless!