Methods to shorten internodes

[MostlyMe]

There are a couple of factors well-known to influence internode length (other than genetics): lighting, spacing (crowding), nute regime and day-night temperature difference. I am a crammer with a small space and a weak light, and I grow organic so I can't do much about the nutes. So I will try heating at night during the stretch to reduce the internode spacing in my next grow - I always get long internodes, sometimes ridiculously so.

There's some literature about "mechanically stressing" plants (not cannabis) which is basically brushing and shaking them once a day and which indeed slows down growth. Also there's supercropping. Thing is I am reluctant to do both those things during the stretch, at least before sex has shown. I fear getting more males, or worse: hermies. Any opinions on this?

Other suggestions are most welcome too of course!

 

[HuffnPufferfish]

slam blue light right on the plants, nothing more to it, i have nothing but mm sized internode spacing

 

[MostlyMe]

slam blue light right on the plants, nothing more to it, i have nothing but mm sized internode spacing

I do! I have my 250 watt MH as close as I dare, but I get huge internodes anyway. The plants settle down after a while and start producing shorter ones towards the end of the stretch, but that's still a lot of unnecessary height.

 

[ZenDuddhist]

You may want to consider node stacking. It seems to work pretty darn good. Do a search on this forum and you will find the thread.

 

[Bio_Kio]

Hi MostlyMe,i am not a pro grower but i can say that in my second grow some years ago I've been doing a sort of "training" on my sweet thoot (50/50indica sativa)with a 40cm fan direct on her at max speed since her second day of life,and that looked like working,I had really short internodes,someone at the time told me that this metod makes some microfracture in the stem of the plants caused by the strong air flow,and the plant responds with bigger stems and shorter internodes to allow the plant to stay well "pasted" to the soil(sorry for this term but i don t know how to say it in english)..
Hope that helped you
Cheers and good growing to everyone


Ps:i forgot to say that i have noticed that plants wich started growing bushy,with short internodes use to keep that "style" of growing,even if they are mostly sativa or indica,that is just my 2coins..

 

[stoned-trout]

sex is already what it is in the seed ..stress wont get more males or change the ratios...but bad enough stress can bring out the hidden hermie in your plants.....yeehaw..modify you training methods for them stretchy plants....consider scrog it works great for more stretchy plants with distance between nodes...some fools use chemicals..not in my garden...proper plant training wont bother the plant and stress it too much especially if you do it gradually....I have done about every method...probably all unless there is something new

 

[MostlyMe]

Hi MostlyMe,i am not a pro grower but i can say that in my second grow some years ago I've been doing a sort of "training" on my sweet thoot (50/50indica sativa)with a 40cm fan direct on her at max speed since her second day of life,and that looked like working,I had really short internodes,someone at the time told me that this metod makes some microfracture in the stem of the plants caused by the strong air flow,and the plant responds with bigger stems and shorter internodes to allow the plant to stay well "pasted" to the soil(sorry for this term but i don t know how to say it in english)..
Hope that helped you
Cheers and good growing to everyone


Ps:i forgot to say that i have noticed that plants wich started growing bushy,with short internodes use to keep that "style" of growing,even if they are mostly sativa or indica,that is just my 2coins..

I usually work with sativas, so bigger internodes are to be expected, but some are huge and anything to shorten them would be awesome. I have a fan too, but I don't see that much effect from it to be honest.

You may want to consider node stacking. It seems to work pretty darn good. Do a search on this forum and you will find the thread.

Hey that's interesting, thanks!

sex is already what it is in the seed ..stress wont get more males or change the ratios...but bad enough stress can bring out the hidden hermie in your plants.....yeehaw..modify you training methods for them stretchy plants....consider scrog it works great for more stretchy plants with distance between nodes...some fools use chemicals..not in my garden...proper plant training wont bother the plant and stress it too much especially if you do it gradually....I have done about every method...probably all unless there is something new

The sex is not in the (reg) seed, environmental factors influence it. Blue light, temperature, stress, moisture, nutes... all these things have be shown to have an effect on the sex ratio.

No chemicals for me either. I do train my plants as well, heavily in fact, but only in veg or after sex has shown. The methods I mentioned would require (some) stress at a time I'd prefer not to do anything, but maybe I am overly cautious.

 

[stoned-trout]

wrong ^^^^^..I used to think that too..sex is pre determined already...yeehaw...when that sucker sprouts its sex is already determined ..nutes ,light whatever don't change sex or ratios...that theory is bunk ..but its ok if you wanna stay in the dark ages believing what was once thought...several folks with accesss to lab testing and more experience will confirm this too..stop reading old books and high times...we now know better..ya I know it was written in some book by either ed or clark cause I read it too and believed it ..but they have been wrong on quite a few things and we now know better....NEVER STOP LEARNING..they can take a small sample and lab test for sex as soon as there is something to test...so find a lab and see for yourself...you will soon find out the truth too..try asking someone like chimera or similar and see what they tell ya...

 

[MostlyMe]

I am more than willing to change my view if presented with evidence, so if you would be so kind to present some... one or two links would be nice

I germed about 100 reg seeds in my life and I don't think I got more than 10 males. Amazes me every time, every 9 or 10 plant grow I start gets me 0 or only 1 males. Those are some pretty bizarre odds, or are you saying male-female ratio isn't 50:50 in cannabis? What about hermies? Clearly the potential for both sexes is already present in those seeds. In fact, every vigorous strain will eventually hermie if you let it go long enough.

 

[oldbean]

wrong ^^^^^..I used to think that too..sex is pre determined already...yeehaw...when that sucker sprouts its sex is already determined ..nutes ,light whatever don't change sex or ratios...that theory is bunk ..but its ok if you wanna stay in the dark ages believing what was once thought...several folks with accesss to lab testing and more experience will confirm this too..stop reading old books and high times...we now know better..ya I know it was written in some book by either ed or clark cause I read it too and believed it ..but they have been wrong on quite a few things and we now know better....NEVER STOP LEARNING..they can take a small sample and lab test for sex as soon as there is something to test...so find a lab and see for yourself...you will soon find out the truth too..try asking someone like chimera or similar and see what they tell ya...

Stoned-trout, I've read many of your posts in the past but this is the first that made me say ..............

Yeehaw!

Respect, never stop learning. That's some truth right there

 

[shawkmon]

crush the stems a little, give them a squeeze till ya feel the flesh give, it slows the stretch and keeps nodes tighter, might hinder yeild slightly , i learned this trick trying to tame sativas

 

[stoned-trout]

I been studying on cannabis hard for over 20+ years and still learn new things as science progresses....not some growers stoned opinion...try asking chimera or others with more money and lab access maybe ask sam too...I don't care if you believe me the FACTS are out there if ya look......fwiw I get really high female to male ratios too...I tried diff nute levels ,diff light cycles,diff lights too once after reading some books by respected authors...we put that theory to rest a bit back...like I said ask a few pros who are more known and respected than me ..like sam or chimera and see what they think/say..i think chimera will school ya..I am pretty sure he has already stated his findings if I remember right...yeehaw..maybe he will chime in if asked....maybe it was all a dream and I was really high too...lol

 

[stoned-trout]

I posted in botany and plant science so maybe someone who is respected and popular will reply..i asked for any scientific studies proof....yeehaw..mainly sam or chimera who I respect hopefully not some closet stoner breeder guessing..i grow a lot of seeds and once I had a batch with mostly females but one strain gave me all males ..all were grown in same place,same soil,same light,same temp..so how would you explain that..the strain was called dagger gen,,, black domina x bubbleberry..all 12 seeds male....yeehaw...

 

[blueberrydrumz]

You may want to consider node stacking. It seems to work pretty darn good. Do a search on this forum and you will find the thread.

cant find the thread mentioned.. pls post

 

[MostlyMe]

crush the stems a little, give them a squeeze till ya feel the flesh give, it slows the stretch and keeps nodes tighter, might hinder yeild slightly , i learned this trick trying to tame sativas

And you do this also the first 2-3 weeks after the flip, no problems?

I been studying on cannabis hard for over 20+ years and still learn new things as science progresses....not some growers stoned opinion...try asking chimera or others with more money and lab access maybe ask sam too...I don't care if you believe me the FACTS are out there if ya look......fwiw I get really high female to male ratios too...I tried diff nute levels ,diff light cycles,diff lights too once after reading some books by respected authors...we put that theory to rest a bit back...like I said ask a few pros who are more known and respected than me ..like sam or chimera and see what they think/say..i think chimera will school ya..I am pretty sure he has already stated his findings if I remember right...yeehaw..maybe he will chime in if asked....maybe it was all a dream and I was really high too...lol

I posted in botany and plant science so maybe someone who is respected and popular will reply..i asked for any scientific studies proof....yeehaw..mainly sam or chimera who I respect hopefully not some closet stoner breeder guessing..i grow a lot of seeds and once I had a batch with mostly females but one strain gave me all males ..all were grown in same place,same soil,same light,same temp..so how would you explain that..the strain was called dagger gen,,, black domina x bubbleberry..all 12 seeds male....yeehaw...

I was gonna be cranky about your initial reaction, but your question over in botany made everything alright Thanks for that. Rough deal on that dagger though, wow.

cant find the thread mentioned.. pls post

It's carefully opening up the new growth when it's still pointing up. Like spreading the leaves.

 

[stoned-trout]

hey I always have an open mind and try to learn as much as I can...like I said I have read just about everything written on marijuana and been round a long time in the game.. I have grown a lot of weed in my time......when I got all them males from dg and wrote about it on cannabis world I got a lot of flak about how it was my fault ..well I grew a shitload of other seeds with same soil,lights,ferts and they were all together...and got a high female ratio like usual with the rest..i generally get 80 percent or higher females for some reason ..definitely higher than 50/50 tho...I look forward to any scientific proof one way or another to clear this up for others...I have my belief after all these years of growing and literally thousands of seeds by now..i don't grow huge plants but I do grow numbers...limits are for pussies...yeehaw

 

[shishkaboy]

wrong ^^^^^..I used to think that too..sex is pre determined already...yeehaw...when that sucker sprouts its sex is already determined ..nutes ,light whatever don't change sex or ratios...that theory is bunk ..but its ok if you wanna stay in the dark ages believing what was once thought...several folks with accesss to lab testing and more experience will confirm this too..stop reading old books and high times...we now know better..ya I know it was written in some book by either ed or clark cause I read it too and believed it ..but they have been wrong on quite a few things and we now know better....NEVER STOP LEARNING..they can take a small sample and lab test for sex as soon as there is something to test...so find a lab and see for yourself...you will soon find out the truth too..try asking someone like chimera or similar and see what they tell ya...

Can they do genetic testing on seeds to determine sex?

 

[stoned-trout]

not sure, but I know once it pops some can be taken and tested....yeehaw..it would be cool if you could scrape off some shell and test it...

 

[Mikell]

https://www.votehemp.com/PDF/Sex_determination_in_Hemp.pdf

Welcome to 1925 my Bro Science muchacheros.

Although the field has muddied since. X chromosome/autosome ratios are used determine sex, which are influenced environment, though this relates to intersex growth.

This is all to my current knowledge. Perhaps I've been misreading but my ego says that is unlikely.

 

[the gnome]

the easiest way Ive to short stack those nodes is using T5s w/6500K bulbs
put bulbs right down to a couple of inches of the tops,
you'll need a fan on one end of the fixture to keep the tops from burning. if the genetics are there for tight nodes
you'll get em tight.
I'm currently running a sour deeX and the nodes won't tighten
up compared to others Ive grown.