Metal halide or HPS hotter?

[Sinisterzane]

Hi all,

I am in the middle of doing a build and want to run 4 x 600 HPS during flower and 4 x 600 halides during veg (might use 400 halides not sure yet)

I need to do a dummy run without plants and see what I can get my temps to....

What is going to run hotter (if any) the 4 x MH's or the 4 x HPS?

These are hanging verticaly with a 1m long 10" rhino filter directly above them and a osciliating fan boosting the air from the 6" input fan into the canopy...

Its freezing cold here - temps outside...Today I hung a 600W dual spectrum lamp (all I had) and its holding at 17 degrees....so fingers crossed when I hang all 4 I can get it to around 25 degrees.

Thanks

 

[Big Sky]

HPS run hotter-
in my opinion, with the technology advances today and my experiences with LED there is no need for MH lighting any more- HPS is good but even then the LED panels can be utilized properly between HPS lamps filling in not only spectrum but saving you tons of heat, power, overhead cost on bulbs etc-
My 300w panels are as bright as a 430W HPS and are spectrum tailored by myself(a real grower) to hit peak ranges of chlorophyll A and B -Its all about what a plant see's as light and not what you see as light-
Lumen's are just a measure of human eye light intensity- not plant or plant spectrum intensity-
I could turn you on t some tailor made high grade LED panels for growing meds for the same coast as a bulb ballast and hood setup of good quality-

if your dead set on going HID then go with cooltube's or air cooled reflectors and run a mixture of MH and HPS- this will take all your heat worries away and give you a full spectrum- its always best to produce a full spectrum as much as possible, as a breeder i take this into account in all my grows etc-
it just makes for a healthier more robust plant -
more yield and better tric production, higher thc, cbd, cbn levels etc-
My lED panels however only burn 200w each 12-15 year life span- i had to have the spectrum re-engineered cause most LEDs are uber expensive and full of red diodes and no blues oranges or whites, or just simply not enough of the other warm colors needed to grow MJ- red diodes are the cheapest so they pack em in there lol
Our plant is specific , since its an annual and grows very fast, it burns up energy like crazy , more then most plants and uses chlorophyll in both ranges start to finish in a more balanced harmony.
Where as most plants grow just fine under cheap LEDs cause they swing heavily to one side of the use of chlorophyll A or B -
Our plants like it all! So that being said I can get you the mad deal on some real! LED panels tailor made to MJ lighting-
you could put 4 of them, be out the same cost and get better spectrum and no bulbs to buy for over 10 years bro-
im just a grower that has them made but dont mind helping folks in these times- stuffs expensive and the economy sux- lol
Plus i love my engineering lol put a lot of pride into growing
I have a solar powered grow going on here and some tests grows if you want to see this stuff in action-

 

[Big Sky]

if your looking to raise temps just put your exhaust on a timer man-
15 min on each hour the rest its shut off- this will clear the air for them to breath good and allow heat to build up in the grow area- play with the timer if its to hot-
run it longer-
you will find the sweet spot fairly quick just check on the grow often-

 

[Sinisterzane]

if your looking to raise temps just put your exhaust on a timer man-
15 min on each hour the rest its shut off- this will clear the air for them to breath good and allow heat to build up in the grow area- play with the timer if its to hot-
run it longer-
you will find the sweet spot fairly quick just check on the grow often-

Thanks for the reply..

I am putting a relay and stat arrangment on to control the temps..When the temps drop below say 20 it will slow the in fan down to a trickle speed and turn on a fan heater of which is positioned behind the osciliating canopy fan next to the in fans input duct....this way the 1kw fan heater will warm the slow fresh air nicely...once it goes above 25 again at lights on it will turn the input fan up and shut down the fan heater. I might use one of the poles of the relay to trigger an input on an sms controller so it texts me whenever the room stat engages so I can keep an acurate eye on things....There are also going to be float switches that text me when the reservoir levels go to a specific level and also text me if the ph/ec goes to far out...

I might modify a fan heater, take the element out and rivet it between 2 x 12" - 6 " reducers this will come on with the stat and be an inline duct heater

I have one of these in there now

http://cpc.farnell.com/tekview/irps1363/gsm-power-socket-tekview-irps1363/dp/TE06922?Ntt=gsm+socket

I am monitoring the room temp by phone...this is also going to sort of be my contactor so I can set the light times by text and if something goes very wrong i.e the fans break then if the temp goes above say 32 it will shut the lights down...

 

[rangergord]

Heres a fly in the ointment. I say MH run hotter. Why? If both bulbs are 600 watt then they both consume the same amount of power. However the MH puts out less light (lumens). Whatever power is not converted to light is going to be wasted as heat. Hence MH wastes more power as heat than HPS.

 

[Sinisterzane]

Heres a fly in the ointment. I say MH run hotter. Why? If both bulbs are 600 watt then they both consume the same amount of power. However the MH puts out less light (lumens). Whatever power is not converted to light is going to be wasted as heat. Hence MH wastes more power as heat than HPS.

I have tried a HPS, dual spec and MH and the MH definitely seems a lot hotter to me...

 

[Big Sky]

Well i guess there is a missing factor here- digital ballast vs reg- a MH that goes into a digital ballast is not a MH-
its a conversion bulb!

But in magnetic ballast, its pretty much been common knowledge for a very long time that HPS burn much hotter them MH-

wasted light spectrum and lumen's are no measure of heat-
none what so ever- Cant use wasted light spectrum as a heat scale - lol
Lumen's cant even measure what plants see as light- its just human eye perception of light brightness-
period- But its an indicator-
Each bulb burns different gases inside and it takes different temperatures to burn these gases inside the bulb thus creating a particular color spectrum-
HPS burn hotter..its in the name-
HIGH PRESSURE-
fact-
done-
no debate its fact-
i mean your getting 50% brightness increase over MH -
Do you not think that 50% increase increases the heat?
your talkin double the brightness over a MH-
and more...

HPS actually waste more usable light then MH do-
thats why they appear yellow, by all means find yourself a chlorophyll intake chart and see for yourself-
all that yellow is wasted light-
MH burn blue in the 400+ nm range or 6500k..
thats all usable light to plants ..not wasted light-

 

[Greenlife1]

Well it all really matters what kelvin temp the bulbs run at. a 10k MH will run hotter than a hps for sure.
Conversion bulbs are designed for a ballast that wont fire tht bulb normally

 

[Big Sky]

all digital ballast use MH conversion bulbs-
There not actual MH-
90% of digital ballast manufacturers cliam "Runs both MH and HPS" what there giving you is a conversion bulb! otherwise the damn thing would look more like a ballon-
They do not- there exactly the same size as your HPS-
so if your running a MH in a digital ballast- its a conversion bulb- period-

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I have tried a HPS, dual spec and MH and the MH definitely seems a lot hotter to me...

The main source of 'heat' from an HPS lamp (that effects grow room temps) is the amount of dark surface area that is absorbing the infra-red from the lamp and radiating it to the room as heat.

MH (in most spectrums) have much lower outputs of infra-red and don't experience this effect as much.

Was your room white/reflective with no dark surfaces? What K was your MH?

Stay Safe!

 

[tetragrammaton]

I've accidentally had my hair touch my bulbs in the past, and the MH always immediately burns and fries my hair, and makes an audible burning sound. When I've done the same under an HPS, I don't notice my hair burning.

 

[jm420]

all digital ballast use MH conversion bulbs-
There not actual MH-
90% of digital ballast manufacturers cliam "Runs both MH and HPS" what there giving you is a conversion bulb! otherwise the damn thing would look more like a ballon-
They do not- there exactly the same size as your HPS-
so if your running a MH in a digital ballast- its a conversion bulb- period-

http://www.amazon.com/Digilux-600-Watt-Grow-Bulb/dp/B004KNBXKY

you can get mh bulbs in 600w for digis .I havnt seen a switchable 600 mag ballast so conversion is the only option if running a mag ballast
BTW the shape of a bulb dosnt mean shit when it comes to mh bulbs
my digilux mh looks like an hps

 

[Big Sky]

you actually just confirmed everything i said-
you have never seen a 600w switchable ballast thats magnetic before???
thats strange cause ive seen thousands on the market for years before digital ballasts came out-
DIGILUX- key digi for digital ballast- yes the MH is supposed to look like an hps bulb- Cause its a conversion bulb made for digital ballasts-
and yes a true magnetic regular ballast that runs a MH- the metal halide will be a ballon shape-
9 times out of 10- theres always that one or two exceptions to the rule but my case is a proven fact -
digilux lol
i use digilux bro-
there conversion bulbs if your running them in a digital ballast like your supposed to-
digilux are not even recommended for a magnetic ballast just ask digilux-

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Taken from the International Lighting in Controlled Environments Workshop

 

[Big Sky]

curious on how many brands tested and different bulbs, digi vs magnetic ballast etc-
they run at different frequencies-
i imagine that study is about 10-15 years out of date to-
link?

 

[Big Sky]

yup 1994! lol

 

[messn'n'gommin']

yup 1994! lol

I think it's a safe bet to say they were using core and coil ballasts, but, I would think that any improvement in MH lamp performance from e-ballasts would also apply to HPS lamps as well. Do you have any info or a link that updates or corrects this study about power consumption from 1994? Would love to see it! I like current (lol...no pun intended) data and improvements in ballast and lamp technology!

TIA!