MASSIVE INDOOR COMMERCIAL GROW

[GorillaGrower]

Hey Jules.. what did you mean by this?
16/8 mentioned above not a bad example...8K+, vs. 4800+. That's a fair difference in draw, but, still respectable production ...(What is that, like 5-600 a month? 6-7k 24/7?)

I understand alot of people like the flipflops.. although you can find some info.. there really isn't any great info on it. It seems sketchy for someone to build one themselves considering if it fails... who knows? Are these normally DIY or is there a trusted source?

It seems there is a growing number of positive reasons to use one.. What are the best reasons?

-I imagine being able to use less ballast reduces initial start up costs for lighted canopy

-To get the same amount of wattage down one can draw less at one time. ie a 12k op would never have more than maybe 7-8k running at once?

-In a way enviromental controls would be more expensive initially(more rooms to control) but controlling half the heat and humidity at a time would make the process more controllable.
- Being able to alternate harvests would keep workload evenly dispersed over time

Cons

-not being able to go into both rooms in a visit.. or well timed visits.

-having extra reflectors and no ballasts for them leads to sitting inventory if flip flops aren't used always.

-not sure if it will work or burn it to the ground


What makes sense here and what doesn't? Any info J

 

[Julian]

Hey Jules.. what did you mean by this?
16/8 mentioned above not a bad example...8K+, vs. 4800+. That's a fair difference in draw, but, still respectable production ...(What is that, like 5-600 a month? 6-7k 24/7?)

Self explanatory. 16 x 600, flip flopped= 8 x 600=4800w. Add on 2-3K, and your draw depending on region is about 5-600 a month (I'm sure more or less depending on local billing.)

5-700 a month, for a larger home is not unreasonable. (I have a condo in city for heavier work weeks, so no travel every day, no grow and I run 250-400 a month ) My house, no grow, I run about 500-800 a month. ...(pretty big house, pool, but, point stands...)

16 6's will get you a fairly respectable amount. If wise spending, no reason can't be more than respectable contribution to someones situation. (100 a yr seems a reasonable estimate (16 x 6=96. Lower estimate)

I understand alot of people like the flipflops.. although you can find some info.. there really isn't any great info on it. It seems sketchy for someone to build one themselves considering if it fails... who knows? Are these normally DIY or is there a trusted source?

Can find them many places, Progressive, others. I know lot of people DIY also...(I personally love progressive btw ) Simple overview and example.,

It seems there is a growing number of positive reasons to use one.. What are the best reasons?

-I imagine being able to use less ballast reduces initial start up costs for lighted canopy

-To get the same amount of wattage down one can draw less at one time. ie a 12k op would never have more than maybe 7-8k running at once?

-In a way enviromental controls would be more expensive initially(more rooms to control) but controlling half the heat and humidity at a time would make the process more controllable.
- Being able to alternate harvests would keep workload evenly dispersed over time

Cons

-not being able to go into both rooms in a visit.. or well timed visits.

-having extra reflectors and no ballasts for them leads to sitting inventory if flip flops aren't used always.

-not sure if it will work or burn it to the ground

What makes sense here and what doesn't? Any info J

Well, don't forget as far as work and timing, you have twice a day, not once (to get work done) Less cost(initial), less heat (50%), essentially double the space and production while controlling your draw and the above. (ie: someone might be concerned with running 12K, whereas 6k might be more reasonable, no draw/jump when firing up, etc, etc...Can be done smaller also...(ie: someone running a 3/6-4/8, etc, even a 2/4 for someone concerned...)

I know different veg locations mentioned, and, I am in complete agreement. No/lo power, no smell. Can do almost anywhere and keep draw off other location(s).... )

 

[Hindu Killer]

Neat......got some heavy hitter's in the crowd I see! Ive known some big indoor growers. And all of what has been shared here makes sense! Thanks for shareing !

 

[GorillaGrower]

follow'n now bro .. got a little caught up and upside down with the lingo being tossed around... straight now though. thanks

...Well, don't forget as far as work and timing, you have twice a day, not once (to get work done)

this part was the only one I dont understand... it seems this would be a detriment... as in you cant check on a room that's in flower w/ lights off. w/ two rooms.. it means everytime you show up// there will always be one room you cant get into without timing// does this make sense... or is there a tricky trick to the setup

on another note.. I was at a very nice restaurant for lunch.. long story short there happened to be a sub-prime mortgage wholesaler getting wasted after golf.. I hit him up for some info.

Pretty much everything that was here at least is right on. If you got good credit... no doc.. done. it all depends on the scenario.. I threw about six ideas at him as he was pilfing the rest of his wine. He just started spitting answers out left and right.. is was quite incredible. Anyways.. like was said earlier , it is tougher to get the 4 unit deals now then before... but when I asked MORE about it.. he said this" well I deal with who I deal with.. and theres way more banks than anyone could ever keep track of.. so another deal is always out there" sound familiar

Pretty much if your just starting out.. no docs can work.. and it seems owner occupied if you have to adds help to making it happen. but from what I thought and what he agreed with.. owner financing is the best. sound right J?

Let me ask you a ? jules, I know several well established gentlemen that in their spare time pick up shit houses that are either at auction from foreclosure.. or one calls ahead of the foreclosure and steals em.. This might be a stupid ? and your going to tell me to go see a broker to get real answers.. but were just interested in if these are the deals to be looking for and if special loans or set parameters on financing need to be in place to take advantage?

 

[Julian]

this part was the only one I dont understand... it seems this would be a detriment... as in you cant check on a room that's in flower w/ lights off. w/ two rooms.. it means everytime you show up// there will always be one room you cant get into without timing// does this make sense... or is there a tricky trick to the setup

You always alter to fit your anticipated schedule. ie: If one was to dedicate, say...9pm-3am?/evenings? set it 12/24..gives you 9-12/12-3....(which also would give you morning before 12, afternoon after 12, etc...) Of course, the concept also is you can run staggered batches (even within each space), but start and finish (of op) leaves the space running 50%, which is a waste....(could even stagger so cutting weekly, etc....). Anyway, lot of people forget, you schedule it around your time.....

on another note.. I was at a very nice restaurant for lunch.. long story short there happened to be a sub-prime mortgage wholesaler getting wasted after golf.. I hit him up for some info.

Pretty much everything that was here at least is right on.

No fiction round' here

BUT......Most likely he represents a single lender(you said wholesaler, so, assume he spends his time running from broker to broker trying to push their products.)

If you got good credit... no doc.. done. it all depends on the scenario.. I threw about six ideas at him as he was pilfing the rest of his wine. He just started spitting answers out left and right.. is was quite incredible. Anyways.. like was said earlier , it is tougher to get the 4 unit deals now then before... but when I asked MORE about it.. he said this" well I deal with who I deal with.. and theres way more banks than anyone could ever keep track of.. so another deal is always out there" sound familiar

Not sure what has and hasn't been said previously (in thread) but, that's how it works. (Broker has more sheets, from more lenders, with more programs, than most imagine. One could literally spend days sifting through ":finding" new programs , and, when they pull one, another pops up) If good credit (and docs), full doc (100%). All depends on who you are and what you have (can show). Bottom line is risk/reward (for lender). ie: Down, full doc, lowest rate. The more one varies, the more the rate changes. (100%, full doc?...slightly higher rate. 100% no doc, even higher (still reasonable, and, key is always to refi as soon as you can. Such programs are merely "temporary vehicles". Once you get "where you want to go", then you alter what your in.

I think one of last posts before had link to a single sources assortment of programs? Imagine that assortment, then, x 500 (programs, then, x 500 lenders.....)

Same applies to states. Different lenders offer different things in different states. (sometimes do not serve specific states either...)

Endless topic actually due to amount of info and variables.

Nah, you can still do 4's, I'm just not sure what has been changes as far as guidelines (underwriting) regarding NOO 4's...

Clarify: An individual can purchase a property (1-4 units) that they intend (or say they intend ) to occupy for 100%/0 down. Always have, always will.

Note: It used to be they would also apply a portion of rent's to your qualifying income, but, they changed that over to not unless you demonstrate prior experience (management..) Again, depends on who and where you go. hundreds (more?) of lenders, all with hundreds of programs.

Pretty much if your just starting out.. no docs can work.. and it seems owner occupied if you have to adds help to making it happen. but from what I thought and what he agreed with.. owner financing is the best. sound right J?

Not necessarily. Best "start" would be one working their credit and financials overall in order to get best they can (no doc not best they can)

See, in my world, it's a matter of "If they could sell it, then they wouldn't have to finance it" (read, a lot of owner financing (if not almost all) is due to either they want more(in general), condition lacking (for price, which goes back to more)

(See, a lot of owners think that the public are clueless and know nothing, and, will price something at 100k more than market, thinking they are actually going to "pick someone up" somewhere, when in reality it's idiocy anyway because if someone came in, they'd lose the deal once appraisal done for financing......)

(of course, goes to market...vacant land, middle of nowhere, of course, any and everything to help, it's not flying of the shelf..... )

Let me ask you a ? jules, I know several well established gentlemen that in their spare time pick up shit houses that are either at auction from foreclosure.. or one calls ahead of the foreclosure and steals em.. This might be a stupid ? and your going to tell me to go see a broker to get real answers.. but were just interested in if these are the deals to be looking for and if special loans or set parameters on financing need to be in place to take advantage?

Too long of an answer, but, I can tell you this:
Many are under the assumption that banks , if they are into something for $1, will sell for $2.

Such a person (Asset Manager) would find themselves fired, and, possibly more if they were to do such.(ie: If your position is to control, dispose, and maximize assets, and, you let something go for 300k for les than 300k, then, you basically suck at your job.

These days, lender picks up phone (emails) 3 of their best brokers(RE), and, lists it.

Now, before anyone states anything else, there are various times before and during the process that various things can be done. I'm merely talking about once lender takes it back to clear things up. After sale/auction (And, I know that for a fact because one of my guys gets about 20+ REO listings a month from lenders. They get listed at market, and, won't entertain less than market until a reasonable amount of time has passed.(All depends on the property and location though I suppose. I know guys who also do "the hood", so, think they have more flexibility since what they buy are true POS....)

There are a bunch, as said, of other options before and during of what one can do, but, that would be a long explanation....

(Foreclosures come in all shapes and sizes, to 5MM homes, but, in my experience , I have found always easier to find something elsewhere which is easier to do.)

I'm not a fan of flipping. There are 2 bad stories for every good one, yet, interestingly enough, you never hear any of those ...

 

[GorillaGrower]

Thanks julian.. those flip flops are what I've seen before but I don't think they're getting much play on the boards so you dont see alot of them here. Glad to see someone endorsing/using them. It seems like a few headaches to jump through.. like rewiring all the lights with male/female plugs and the extra lamp cord.. But i guess once its done that way.. its good to go. I"ve read about them before... it seems you could run a setup a couple different ways.. either separate rooms completely(like 2 bedrooms w/ there own a/c,dehum, co2 or a whole basement breaking it off into three rooms, 2 for growth and one lung room where the air is treated (co2,ac,dehum) and then pumped into whichever room needs it the most(the one with lights on)

appreciate the link thanks

And of course any other info.. like owner financing... makes total sense.. Old man landlord.. wants the most out of it when he leaves.. so he sells it himself.. hoping ot sell it above its loan value. it makes total sense , thanks for clearing that up.

On a similar note.. say the owner financing is on land... no building. Would that make a difference? I was thinking it would because its a different type of loan situation,, and possibly a different seller.. old farmers selling off land to get by = cheap old landlord looking to retire= bitter man looking to sell high

 

[pumpkin2006]

I would imagine that if you just bought say.... 50-100 acres near where you live and just planted all around that, that you could make the same if not more than running any indoor op.

We have autoflowering strains, light dep devices that force flower and the ability to plant hundreds of plants; that will all probably yield fairly well. Wouldn't it make sense to buy some property thats zoned only agricultural or wont perk for any septic and grow on that? These are the types of properties that stay on the market for long periods of time and have a hard time selling. If you came in with 10% down and good to great credit, I would say they would give you a hand job at the end of the sale

So an average autoflowering plant will grow 1 1/2' to 2' tall and on average yield a 1/2 ounce and take up 8 sq/inches will produce 5.3 lbs per 10'x10' area. 10 by 10 isn't very big and you can have 4 harvests for year in that same plot. Now you spread your plots out and have say.... 10 of these plots. So now we have 5.3 x 4 times a year x 10 different plots x $2200 a lbs = $466400. I'd say thats pretty decent... for no real work. Now remember, you have to save seed from autoflower's and weed out the males. One plant thats seeded can easily produce anywhere from 100-1000 seeds, now we cut that in half for males (ideally) and were down to 50-500 seeds of females and each plot requires 150 plants. You have 10 of these plots so thats 1500 female seeds and a total of 3000 seeds so you pollinate your 10 best females with your best male/s. You also get to take about 4 months (depending on where you live) off of the year and go on vacation or something...

Just my cause I wanna maximizer my gains and minimize my inputs.

 

[Julian]

Thanks julian.. those flip flops are what I've seen before but I don't think they're getting much play on the boards so you dont see alot of them here. Glad to see someone endorsing/using them. It seems like a few headaches to jump through.. like rewiring all the lights with male/female plugs and the extra lamp cord.. But i guess once its done that way.. its good to go. I"ve read about them before... it seems you could run a setup a couple different ways.. either separate rooms completely(like 2 bedrooms w/ there own a/c,dehum, co2 or a whole basement breaking it off into three rooms, 2 for growth and one lung room where the air is treated (co2,ac,dehum) and then pumped into whichever room needs it the most(the one with lights on)

appreciate the link thanks

And of course any other info.. like owner financing... makes total sense.. Old man landlord.. wants the most out of it when he leaves.. so he sells it himself.. hoping ot sell it above its loan value. it makes total sense , thanks for clearing that up.

On a similar note.. say the owner financing is on land... no building. Would that make a difference? I was thinking it would because its a different type of loan situation,, and possibly a different seller.. old farmers selling off land to get by = cheap old landlord looking to retire= bitter man looking to sell high

Not so much an endorsement, as most DIY, but, example of availability and use.

Owner financing? If one could readily sell something on the open market, it leaves one to wonder why they would take on financing. (Granted, there are valid reasons in some cases, carry note/interest...possible default and sell again, etc...but, ime, and, in life, it's usually a "trade off".....)

Meaning: You give me price, I give you terms

Always a trade off, nothing for free. (similar to mortgages.....I give you terms (0 down) , you give me rate........I give you lo documentation?, you give me rate, etc.....)

Risk/Reward.

I have dealt with many such people personally, and, 99% of the time, they are doing what they are doing because they "want what they want", and, couldn't care less what actual value is.

"Well, if I can't get 500, I won't sell...." (despite any and every indication it's worth 350.....yeah, I'd sell too for 150 over market )

Never waste your time with these people once you see their true agenda....

Then you have the people who love to quote their neighbors...."well, they sold for 500 recently........"

Yeah, they did, except for their lot is 300% larger, and, house is 2000 sq. ft larger, and, 20 years younger Which their response is usually "wellll......mine is nicer than theirs..." (Which it never is )

Bargain hunting and "deals" never as easy as it is made out to be by the people who make their money from selling you material on how it's done.....(Most people who sell such material have made their money from selling their material, not from actually doing it )

I have a friend who was telling me about how they went to some "seminar" by "experts" and one of the things that was said was "Don't listen to , Don't trust a real estate attorney, they just want your money and to get the job done"



Well............

It makes no difference to a RE attorney what you do, because your billed for services rendered regardless. Do the deal, don't, they still get paid, and, of course, furthermore, an attorney would find themselves liable if they did not protect client.....(Of course, all states different, some states no attorney "needed" (which I think is a big mistake...how is the average person supposed to be aware of the 1000 possible scenarios that may arise from how something may, or may not be worded......)

Sure you got the point.......started a rant there.....

I would imagine that if you just bought say.... 50-100 acres near where you live and just planted all around that, that you could make the same if not more than running any indoor op.

We have autoflowering strains, light dep devices that force flower and the ability to plant hundreds of plants; that will all probably yield fairly well. Wouldn't it make sense to buy some property thats zoned only agricultural or wont perk for any septic and grow on that? These are the types of properties that stay on the market for long periods of time and have a hard time selling. If you came in with 10% down and good to great credit, I would say they would give you a hand job at the end of the sale

So an average autoflowering plant will grow 1 1/2' to 2' tall and on average yield a 1/2 ounce and take up 8 sq/inches will produce 5.3 lbs per 10'x10' area. 10 by 10 isn't very big and you can have 4 harvests for year in that same plot. Now you spread your plots out and have say.... 10 of these plots. So now we have 5.3 x 4 times a year x 10 different plots x $2200 a lbs = $466400. I'd say thats pretty decent... for no real work. Now remember, you have to save seed from autoflower's and weed out the males. One plant thats seeded can easily produce anywhere from 100-1000 seeds, now we cut that in half for males (ideally) and were down to 50-500 seeds of females and each plot requires 150 plants. You have 10 of these plots so thats 1500 female seeds and a total of 3000 seeds so you pollinate your 10 best females with your best male/s. You also get to take about 4 months (depending on where you live) off of the year and go on vacation or something...

Just my cause I wanna maximizer my gains and minimize my inputs.

Or you could just run 1,000+ fem seed or clones. 1 acre sounds like quite a bit of space until one actually realizes what it represents.

An acre is slightly over 200 ft x 200 ft. In "the whole scheme of things", 200 x 200 plot is absolutely nothing. I've seen 1/2 acre's planted late many times...

"Outdoor" math rarely works btw....300% of target, 20% allowance for loss, bad seasons, etc, etc. Outdoor you always estimate as low as possible, even if a good year...

 

[LIMELIGHT]

dont forget HID lights, CFL wont cut the mustard. my pleasure,lime

Hey Julian , sup brotha?

 

[Julian]

Sup my friend? How's your world brotha?

Just kickin waiting to catch my S2 Wire repeat on BET...(2 minutes)

 

[pumpkin2006]

Or you could just run 1,000+ fem seed or clones. 1 acre sounds like quite a bit of space until one actually realizes what it represents.

An acre is slightly over 200 ft x 200 ft. In "the whole scheme of things", 200 x 200 plot is absolutely nothing. I've seen 1/2 acre's planted late many times...

"Outdoor" math rarely works btw....300% of target, 20% allowance for loss, bad seasons, etc, etc. Outdoor you always estimate as low as possible, even if a good year...

I dunno, maybe you missed the beauty of what I was talking about... they're 1-2' tall and you have multiple harvests. This means that they aren't easily detectable and that if they are found, hopefully, you will have had at least a couple harvests before that. Sorry but what do you mean by 300% target and 20% allowance?

This is like an indoor grow but without overhead and risk and on a much larger scale. How could you knock it?

 

[Julian]

I'm familiar with the beauty of it.

Quite.

Edit: Everyone has their "rules of thumb"...

For some, it's x 3. (ie: you want to take home 100, run 300, sexing, loss, theives, etc.)

For some, it's x 3 allowance for loss, problems, theft, etc...

For yet others, the 20% rule (20% automatically allowed for any kind of loss, season, theft, pests, 2-4 legs, etc..)

(Actually, If you adhere to start, with everything as it should be, no reason for loss anyway.....)

Also when you do volume, if running M/F, you are going to miss some...Almost impossible unless traditionally planted (rows, etc). No way around it unless you don't do it from start...

 

[pumpkin2006]

(Actually, If you adhere to start, with everything as it should be, no reason for loss anyway.....)

Yup and also they're only 1-2' tall, and being harvested in the 'wrong' times of the year; the probability of thieves goes down substantially.

 

[zeno]

5000? be ready for a big investment in lights and venalation. costly grow rooms can be dangerous from money to trust in people you work with. loose lips sink ships! be ready for a big commitment bro! Good luck!

here a big boat in holland...was more than 5000 plants and yess they growed there for more than 2 years.

 

[zeno]

i hope it works...
finaly they where busted....
here a video(sorry its in dutch but if you see it you forge that )
http://217.149.193.67:8080/ramgen/video/december2006/10-12-Hennepboot.rm

 

[Supreme]

40 to 45 Carbonfilters

 

[GorillaGrower]

I know this thread got to a Money topic.. that was the most productive.. I dont want to necessarily get off of it.. but What does a commercial op use as a pesticide/fungicide program. .. We know beasters isn't getting the gentle neem treatment .. so what's a 16-30 light op use.. avid/floramite and sulfur burners ? I'm sure there's alot of answers.

 

[jimjay]

i have always seen avid up till day of chop

 

[BakedBeans]

If you grow in a CGE (Closed Growing Environment, or a sealed room), you can use 1500ppm compressed (bottled) CO2 during the normal grow for increased yield. If bugs present a problem you can dial up the CO2 to about 10,000ppm for an hour or so. Just be sure there is no living breathing thing inside the room other than plants. ALL of the bugs will be dead. The plants will not be growing any better during this time, but it will not hurt them.

If you follow rigid sanitary procedures such as covering up outside clothing with coveralls, changing into another pair of shoes and washing your hands before going into the grow, and the room truly is sealed/filtered, there should not be a bug problem in the first place.


I also would encourage commercial growers to look into using alternatives to pesticides such as Urtica Dioica (Stinging Nettle) concentrations as well as other herbs. You can buy them at the herb store or grow them yourself. All you have to do is add loose leaf to boiling water and let it brew for a day. Strain out the leaf and put the liquid in a spray bottle and wet them down. I've only experimented with Nettles, but it has shown amazing results where nothing else I tried would do anything.


Just some thoughts.

 

[BakedBeans]

Oh, and you can't use a burner-based CO2 source, it won't be able to concentrate the gas enough. It has to be compressed gas.