MASSIVE INDOOR COMMERCIAL GROW

[Guest]

Anyone who can't make a really nice living off a 6kw setup is doing something wrong. If 6kw doesn't make you enough money, run two... if that doesn't make you enough, stop having everyone else put their hand in your pot.

 

[Julian]

It's a little simpler than that......

3k, 1st round, let's call it 5+/-. ($3k per, well, that's $15k. Some might charge $5k per...)

There's your set up and change...(factor in your discount and you might be 17-18k+ plus to start )

3k,2nd round, call it above, $15k, there's almost 4 months for 2k rent,2k utilities. Add a month or so and your basically at 2 runs.

You start the shopping list and see how much change is left over and throw it to the other side (carrying costs) and there's your budget....(Might be able to month expenses with change from shopping....)

(You always use low estimate for yield, and round up expenses....)

My estimates/budget was/were much, much higher than above

But, that's of course assuming one channels their money into something besides CD's, a new PRS,$12 shots,a bike,or whateverthefuck people blow their shit on....

You'll notice also that budget covered 2 + batches, and, did not make assumptions ("count on", as operating expenses) of output ...I'm a fan of 6 months expenses onhand before you start

 

[GorillaGrower]

There ya go....... (although, DEA are not the only in the air, All states I am sure have some State Aircraft dedicated to it at some time, or some point. (Not a fact, could be wrong, just assuming. I know many do....(State aircraft). The you have local and regional task forces, etc, etc. County? I wouldn't know. I know County Sheriff's seem to do a lot of footwork (Location? Name one), but, never saw or heard of anything connected with air. Only State and local regional task forces. Know it changes with Parks (National, State.) I hear lot of people talk about the safety due to limited Rangers, but, again, Rangers aren't really I think the ones covering it, as much as in conjunction with....etc, etc....

Your experience? I wouldn't think many could say the same. I could share a story or two, but, in recent memory and locations?, have never even heard a commercial aircraft in the distance ....

If one does a little research , it's easy to discover where the "hot spots" are (All states have em )...

Go opposite the hot spots.....

yeah thats pretty much what I meant.. the local sheriff may have not sent the choppers in the air.. but knew of it.. (probably the highlight of the month for him). Like you said the regional.. or state.. whatever municipality..

this might be assuming to much.. but I figured most states didn't set aside too much money.. and that the dea or some fed gov agency gives them the money to buy equipment to use at the state level. So that's what I meant by a dea hotspot. I guess my point is that local sheriff would never have enough money from local gov and taxes to send up choppers.

so that brings it back to.. how do you know if choppers get sent up by your local government or dea? Of course if your in cali yeah.. like I said I know they did at one point in a specific area of ny. But maybe it was a specific campaign/program that's not run anymore. just years ago. it seems tax payers should have access to information about what their money is getting spent on!!!

Commercial traffic isn't that big of a deal. And the helicopters they used aren't very big at all. Like you said the only thing to worry about is if there is a task force in the area... but how do you know?? You can grow wine in alot of states in the country.. how do we know which ones have hotspots.. anyone have links?

 

[-=TGG=-]

just read this..man i want that 15 min's back..lol..

 

[pumpkin2006]

just read this..man i want that 15 min's back..lol..

LoL, it would seem that you don't have very good judgment; if you read the first page and didn't like it, you would have moved on, but instead you read 19 pages of what you didn't like... all I gotta say is your the guy on the left

 

[BakedBeans]

This thread is severely lacking now that all of FullMonty's posts have been deleted. Well, at least most information in the first 5 or 6 pages.

We should do a re-cap. I have notes written down and will get to it when I have a chance.

bb

 

[BakedBeans]

Here are the notes that I have. Feel free to correct anything, I'll update my notes. Some of this may have been my own thoughts. I'm usually quite high when I am able to make myself write stuff down.




Food for thought:

1) Buy real estate.
2) Grow several crops
3) Use return to remodel house, save the rest
4) Turn into rental property and HOLD
5) Repeat process
6) Sell property when it's REALLY worth it

Invest in businesses:
Electrical
Landscaping or Design (for receiving supplies)
Accounting
Contractors
Labor
Storage
Coin-Laundry

Invest in equipment, but let it make money for you. Store it if you have to but HOLD on to it. You never get good return on selling off gear. You had to pay full price for it, so make it work for you.

Never say "it's coming soon" to ANYONE. Produce only when you are REALLY done. When you set any kind of expectations with people (even when you think you are under no obligation to anyone), you are creating stress for yourself. When you say "soon" people are "waiting" and this creates PRESSURE.

Stop smoking when you are doing something big. It clouds reason.

Money exists to make more money.

Make all intentions known from the start with any partner and with yourself. PLAN PLAN PLAN and write it all out for yourself.

Do not have unreasonable or unrealistic goals.

Always sell DRY or it looks LOCAL. Never ever sell damp weed. They will know the grower is CLOSE.

All is not done until it's all gone and everything is clean. Don't relax, get careless, and mess things up. Make sure it is done RIGHT.

Never ever tell anyone you grow. Make up something, tell them you mail order it, whatever.

When something seems "Not quite right" it is time to pick up and GO. Trust your intuition above all else. Don't rationalize and continue saying to yourself "I'll be more careful". If things are out of place your brain will know it, you will notice little things. They will be very subtle clues. TRUST YOUR FEELINGS. GET OUT.

Stress changes people, even your best friend or family. GROW = STRESS!

Know yourself, Know your partner(s), know your customers, know your neighbors.


Store all product away. Rent a dummy storage room for furniture and things. Always enter storage facility using your dummy unit # and then visit your other storage units while inside. Never leave a trail. Never visit on a set schedule. Never have ANY kind of a schedule people can follow.

Diversify your storage to multiple locations and never leave a pattern of visitation.

Never have product, cash or plants in the same place.


Plan, Plan, Plan, Execute, Re-Plan






That's all I have. I didn't take very good notes in the beginning. Someone else please help me plug in holes and fix mistakes.



bb

 

[Julian]

I couldn't have said it better myself.......Your a wise man.

Some of this may have been my own thoughts.

I'm usually quite high when I am able to make myself write stuff down.

Me too.........



Maybe we should add no matter what, don't let anyone know which handles you use if you post sensitive material.....All your posts could be potentially linked to you should a unique set of problems potentially arise. Even a long term associate or family....

1) Buy real estate.

Go for no money down. Basic principle. Leverage. Go for cheapest things possible. (Something you can improve and add some value. ie: Use money and leverage to create more.). Unless your net worth is what you want it to be. Use your money to make more.

Surely this thread has dome nothing but demonstrate over and over extremely large amounts of money are possible to create in very short periods of time if one is disciplined and shows a little self control/wisdom.

2) Grow several crops

One can use any variation of that they they like, but, the longer you operate a location the greater the chances of a problem. Statistics. Get "comfortable", and, forget it. People slack in security, get sloppy.

Good rule of thumb is when you do feel comfortable, safe, and like "nothing can go wrong", it's probably time to []pack that shit up[/i]......



Simple concept. ie: "Quit while your ahead".

3) Use return to remodel house, save the rest
4) Turn into rental property and HOLD
5) Repeat process
6) Sell property when it's REALLY worth i

Invest in businesses:
Electrical
Landscaping or Design (for receiving supplies)
Accounting
Contractors
Labor
Storage
Coin-Laundry

"Average" person can do this (both) fairly simple,and, if your unable? Well, see what needs to be done and get it done. (ie: work credit, change habits, etc. Almost anyone can go from where they are to where they need to be credit wise in about 24 months......)

Many overlook also ........

Such "activities" as above can justify a lot of behavior and actions one normally could not. (work, shipments, coming and going, accounts,etc, etc, etc.)

Bars are also great and pretty cheap overall unless going for something that's fairly large/profitable.

Invest in equipment, but let it make money for you. Store it if you have to but HOLD on to it. You never get good return on selling off gear. You had to pay full price for it, so make it work for you.

You might get shut down tomorrow.......What? Your going to sell everything?

What happens then when either in 6 months or 2 years you get "the bug" again? Your going to pay more, and, create exposure through purchases when you could have avoided it in the first place, and, make no mistake, in parts of the country and world that are not as friendly, it does, and will draw attention.

If can be avoided, one should always accumulate as opposed to entire shopping list in one trip. (If this can't be avoided, it can't , but, always try.)

Never say "it's coming soon" to ANYONE. Produce only when you are REALLY done. When you set any kind of expectations with people (even when you think you are under no obligation to anyone), you are creating stress for yourself. When you say "soon" people are "waiting" and this creates PRESSURE.

Most who have any exposure with sales will know how people are.....

1.You say somethings coming in a couple weeks, you will have calls twice a week until it "comes in".Not to mention it ones again establishes a regular schedule of arrivals for any and everyone.

(ie: Unless your dealing with boats, trucks, grow.....how can you pinpoint an exact day of arrival????...........It's best left alone. When it's ready it's ready. No one NEEDS to know in advance....

Stop smoking when you are doing something big. It clouds reason.

If you usually do heavy, it probably is.....(Even just stop for a week or two altogether..clear the mind a little, and, then, just stick to occasionally....)

You never know when your going to have to deal with something extreme.

You want to be hit with a "crisis" at that moment? And assume your thoughts will be 100% clear, rational?...Not me....

Money exists to make more money.

Unless you have enough where you can spare a little...

Most people want "things". Most people spend on "things"...

Well, the "things" that you want today, will most likely be cheaper tomorrow

So what's the hurry?

You want to spend 10k if all you have is 20k?

You want to spend 50k? If all you have is 100k?

You want to spend 200k? if all you have is 400k?

It's easier to make more, the more you have to work with......

(Read twice....)

You have 200k? why put anything down on a home???. (ie: It's easier to come up with a couple hundred or even couple thousand a month than it is another 200k (especially if one is running things discussed in thread, any, or all, simultaneously....)

Make all intentions known from the start with any partner and with yourself. PLAN PLAN PLAN and write it all out for yourself.

And screen, screen, and screen again anyone that is being considered for potential involvement.

Your not sure? Then wait until you are, or, your not.All answers to all issues should be as concrete as possible.Don't make such decisions when uncertain.

Which relates to what seems to be a common problem, is, people changing over time..........

You've been with someone a while, and, you see them "slipping" per say?

These are warning signs, not crossword puzzles.....

Call it quits, work your way out as gracefully as possible and keep your distance......They're trouble waiting to happen, and, if you had an indication, and, you ignored it, well, if anything happens it's your fault, and on you.

Because you knew better......

The best thing one can do is make the best decisions from the start. Prevent problems of tomorrow by your actions today.

Even when your disciplined, do everything possible, as sure as possible......your still going to have a problem now and then. ....

Object is to try as hard as possibleto eliminate any potential problems.

Do not have unreasonable or unrealistic goals.

Always wise, and, even wiser to make sure not only understand this, but, to even let them know this. (meaning, partners, training, etc. Low ball yield always with them) Main issue with partners arise over yield and splits.

(Everything comes off the top before the split. Everyone should know this and whoever is attached to the space gets a bigger end. The person who is the most closely associated with the space is at the highest risk.......

(and all know to never, ever, ever talk on phones, ever, for anything. Watch your calls and responses. You just see someone who you see once every 2 weeks and never talks on phone and they call you back 10 minutes after they see you blurting things out, clean up quick..)

Always sell DRY or it looks LOCAL. Never ever sell damp weed. They will know the grower is CLOSE.

The nicer the product is, the more the general public assume it "came from somewhere". (else). Wet means fresh. Fresh means close. Close means pressure (if cracked, to find source.) Changes a routine bust for possibly a small amount into a "search for the local grower/op"......

All is not done until it's all gone and everything is clean. Don't relax, get careless, and mess things up. Make sure it is done RIGHT.

Right? People have a tendency to consider something (op) "done" when, not even clipped, dried, cured, bagged, sold.....I dunno, but, me? Well, that's quite a lot of work and risk left if you ask me (actually, more than the op (sales) in a way...

Never ever tell anyone you grow. Make up something, tell them you mail order it, whatever.

Just don't mention it period. (why? ) Once your known as a "grower", that's it. Everyone will assume your running things at some point.

Furthermore (and, I think this was pretty interesting):
Even displaying a knowledge of growing will "label " you possibly.

(I was at......a place.......not too long ago........people breaking out nice things....discussion turned to bud, and, well.........was a very interesting conversation and, it automaticaally transferred to:
I must be a grower because why else would I know about growing.

Better to just skip those conversations should any such ever come up, and, even steer clear. (But, of course, we all know, very hard sometimes when someone starts telling you that the bud they have is okay, but, since they found a seed in a z, it means it's male plants, and, don't people know that if they grw the female plant, it would be better bud

When something seems "Not quite right" it is time to pick up and GO. Trust your intuition above all else. Don't rationalize and continue saying to yourself "I'll be more careful". If things are out of place your brain will know it, you will notice little things. They will be very subtle clues. TRUST YOUR FEELINGS. GET OUT.

There are those who recognize higher powers, forces in the universe, and, there are those who do not.....

As far as I know, and, have seen in life, thus far, people, as a whole, almost always possess the answer to anything that they find themselves wondering about.

Some listen, some do not.

Paranoid? Well, if you ask me:
It "comes" from somewhere.

(Hence stop blowing 10 a day and clear your mind and you'll know it when you feel it and it won't be any question it it's just cause you just blew one or not )

You get "bad feelings" from somewhere? Best to heed them if you ask me.

Nothing lasts forever.

Everything, everywhere, for everyone, will have an end soon....

Stress changes people, even your best friend or family. GROW = STRESS!

B1/B-Complex helps...

As does making sure everything you do from the start is correct.

Know yourself, Know your partner(s), know your customers, know your neighbors.

As much as one can if they pay attention. More important is paying attention when you feel a problem brewing.....

Store all product away. Rent a dummy storage room for furniture and things. Always enter storage facility using your dummy unit # and then visit your other storage units while inside. Never leave a trail. Never visit on a set schedule. Never have ANY kind of a schedule people can follow.

Diversify your storage to multiple locations and never leave a pattern of visitation.

You want "clean" /entry spaces as far removed from you as posible. Since nothing being stored in those spaeces, can even be anyone (clean "average" person.) No direct link to you. Nor should the other spaces (dirty) be.

Never have product, cash or plants in the same place.

All eggs in one basket. No one wants to lose all in a single event.

Money should always be as far away from you as quickly as possible.

Plan, Plan, Plan, Execute, Re-Plan

That's all I have. I didn't take very good notes in the beginning. Someone else please help me plug in holes and fix mistakes.

bb

I've seen people plan things for years.....(very large projects....accumulating, checking spots in the process, etc...)

Just added a couple things I was thinking of.


Edit: I thought an interesting summary would be:
It's the game/a game.

Some play it, some watch, some do it well, some do not.......(referring to making money in general, no matter how. It's all the same. I myself have found it quite humorous that I find them, personally? Identical.

Some are just "not made for it, some are. (And, if your not?, well, it's probably that one is as honest with themselves, and better that one realizes that as soon as possible.)

Same with growing. Some are, some are not. Some flourish, some struggle. It seems that either one is made for it or they are not, as with anything and everything in life.

 

[pumpkin2006]

So do larger growers use 600's or 1000's? What is the most efficient way of gaining the most yield?

Thanks

 

[BakedBeans]

I have always heard that 600 watt lamps are more efficient than 1000s, however, I don't have direct knowledge of that fact.

I would assume 600's might be easier to cool and use in a dense configuration. They certainly to cut the power draw overall.


1000's definitely have better canopy penetration, especially when you have no easy way of raising/lowering your lights and you have a bunch of lights. I wouldn't think it smart to try a large op without that capability. You will only be hurting your final output. Just do it right the first time.

bb

 

[GorillaGrower]

I would say in general.. 600 1000 it depends on the situation and what your doing.. if your trying to hit and run.. and accumulate gear quick. 1000s make the most sense less to pack,, much cheaper to get the same area in time and effort set up.

I could be wrong but I would think if the op was in one place for a while 600s would make more sense.. investment in time and money would pay off in the long run..

but again.. if your goal is to have as many lights up around the world.. you would always go back to 1000s because you could set up a (arbitrary number) 10k grow w/ 10 1000 but need 17 lights to get to the same number.. for someone putting up bulbs. another 7-10 lights would be pretty much another 10k setup in 1000 watt bulbs.

So it depends 600 are more efficient at wattsconsumed/output/heat but if heat isn't a prob.. 1000 would be much more efficient from the commercial stand point.

like you said baked beans.. 10 lights to move that also can be hung more stationary and further away.. give much less maintence than keeping close hung/vented 600s close to tops constantly( the way to take advantage of 600 lighting) and having 17 to keep on top of.

of course i'm not one to gossip so you didn't here that from me

 

[seaofvert]

hi.....

hi.....

pumpkin 2006 , it s better to use 600 watts lights cos you deliver more lumens per watt.

 

[Guest]

But overall... using the 600's instead of 1000's will give you less lumens for the space you used to hang the lamp itself. I do however use 600's in with the other 1000's. I do so b/c the first 2 hours and the last 2 hours is only 600's running. It saves me energy without interferring with light schedule.

 

[Scientist]

not to mention you can get them closer to the tops holding the same temp, which means more light penetration. It all comes down to the style of growing. 1000s are suitable for trees i think, whereas 600s are way better for scrog or sog or any even top crop.

tokinafaty i like that idea...i wonder if you would get even better results by doing 1000 from lights on and then 600's later in the day when chlorophyl production is diminished

 

[GorillaGrower]

the most efficent way of getting lumens per watts would be using 600watter. But if your intent is to grow the most bud from the least amount of lights(cost overhead) it doesn't even matter if its a tree grow or sog. 1000w lights would be the most cost effective and productive way of doing it. this is commercial not medium scale hobby growing.

It would be like buying a fleet of toyota hybrids to use for your construction business. They'll be more effiecient to use. But in the end owning a chevy work van would of been better for your business because it can move more than a couple people at a time, The engine isn't as new but it works and is proven, its cheaper to implement. better ROI

if you had 10k to spend on lights right now.. sure the 600watters would be the "best" solution for perfection in efficiency... but in the business world perfection is Return on Investment. In this case buying 1000w core ballasts would net you much more effeciency for your dollar spent on ballasts not electricity. If you were growing massive commercially your electricity spending is important.. but growing the most amount of bud without getting busted I think is even more important.

 

[pico]

I would say the 600 is more like a Ford F150 and the 1000 is the panel van. The toyota hybrid is more along the lines of high output flourescent or something.

Either way, I agree that 1000w lights are easier for some reasons. Mostly because you don't have to hang as many and that the initial cost is a bit less. But really when it comes down to it I like the 600w light better. More even light distribution over a given area. Less intense hot spots. More efficient. I have a bunch of both. The 1000s deffinately get the job done. You really can't go wrong with either light.

 

[Julian]

Well said.

 

[pico]

So for late season minis, when would you recommend planting? This depends on location I suppose, but lets just say Northern California. Could I put stuff out in August and still see a return?

Also, there are a lot of people that will sell you land in that area with 10 grand down owner financing. Lets say you don't have any income on the books, would purchasing a place like this come back to haunt me? Is the IRS going to come a knockin?

 

[GorillaGrower]

Nice pico.. much better analogy ..

so what's with the money down owner financing.. I guess its whatevers on the books w the owner that's important?

 

[Julian]

Sorry man, wrote a long reply and site down....

1.You establish finish date and attempt to work your way backwards so as to basically come as close as possible to eliminate as much veg as possible..early August would maybe go with Oct 1+/- things. Of course, if going with something very late, you'd try and vary it a little. (Of course, transplant might slow it down, and, if you get a little veg time on it first could top/fin also, etc, etc, etc. Object is to keep as small as possible and run them as quick as possible (exposure/risk, etc. Some recommend simply training, but, of course, that is more work, visits, exposure, and lead time needed.

Return would depend on your numbers, and, locations (good location, direct sun, your looking at fairly tight stuff (really tight). Location depends end product, but, flip side of as small as possible is you can sometimes get away with wider open/exposed spots which you normally could not. (ie: Open space, lot of sun, lot of wind looking at pretty solid dense product.) Return is on numbers. Easy with numbers to pull some pleasant amounts (and, nice to vut, very quick, clean, pack easy )

Land, well, goes back full circle.You want to have income on books, you want to have credit, some kind of financials so that you can do such things.(And, you might not even be able to get something taken back if lacking any solid info...

Now, some would say if you and owner keep it off books, it's off books, but, of course not because documentation of the transfer has to occur (Record it).

Usually such conversations state the importance of declaring everything you bank, when, of course, it would also include the declaring of things not banked but that can be proved.

Of course, a contract/installment purchase would be such.....

IRS and actions misunderstood anyway. One could theoretically walk into a bank with 1MM cash tomorrow, file and pay, not claim unreasonable deductions and never hear a word. (And extreme example, but, proves the point.)

I have walked into banks with more than 25-50k in cash on more occasions than I can count. Fact. Banks only have my dba's and business cards on file, and, corporate docs for others. Fact.Now while I will not discuss my specific problems with IRS I have been exposed to, or when, I will state that those transactions were on their list of questions, but, only explanations, as the estimated quarterlies were made . It was other items in question ....

I guess answer in short is you could buy it if you declared what you used to buy it with ...

You could buy anyway, but, as above, to have ownership (actual) you should record docs, so.....(all states different, call county and ask)

(Just got busy, not sure if I lost train of thought or not.)

I like 6's btw also. Next in I do will probably be 6's. Less heat, and, good overlap/dispersion. (I like that) I've seen lot of people do trees with vertical 6's, and, some do trees with 6's and 1k's....16/8 mentioned above not a bad example...8K+, vs. 4800+. That's a fair difference in draw, but, still respectable production ...(What is that, like 5-600 a month? 6-7k 24/7?)