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MASSIVE INDOOR COMMERCIAL GROW

Julian

Canna Consultant
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I know last load was: Greensand, Rock Phosphate, Guano's (Bat/Seabird) SolPoMag, Shellfish mixes,Blood,Bone,Potash (just a little, very high pH),Kelp Meal,Lot of general Poultry (manure and light pellet mixes),Rock Dust (Glacial), etc, etc. Usually shopping trips walking through and ending up with a couple pallets and just pick through as we go along, and, then, try to even out and balance the mix as much as possible. (Ie: You could NOT make equal amounts of all of the above, who knows what it would even turn out as...) Sometimes, later, you use less of one or another, but, then, of course, just have more on hand for future and alter next purchases around what you already have laying around....

(You go to the right place, and, you get 50lb bags for pennies..(25-30 bucks), half ton will run you less than a grand...) Ideally, you go in person, if you have to ship, going to cost you, and, ideally, you need something to receive it (Landscaping business, something to that effect.)

Sometimes if a special on a basic, would use that as a base and then work it further. (Got a deal once on some pellet poultry, like, 4-4-4 or something, and, worked that further....) Everytime different and just try to get the most even mix as possible. (Not always easy)I've used the 2 FF's as a base also and reworked those.

(I've only done organics outside, never inside..)

Fems have to be watched though also. Might get a stray here and there. I've had pretty good success with FMS, and, prices reasonable in bulk.(I'd be really happy though if they would mix up their line up and add some new things...). I think everyone should have some fem laying around, "just in case"....(spur of moment opportunity, this, that, etc, etc....I've ran into a lot of "last minute opportunities"....would not have been possible otherwise.

Edit: I thought Molson was soil?? (I've seen a lot of those larger up North that were soil....)
 
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Supreme

New member
Is it possible to take cuttings at an outdoor location and immediately plant them in ground next to the motherplant? If so; does this require another technique as when cloning under CFL's?
(perhaps placing them in the shade of the motherplant would be best?)
 

Goyakla

Member
No - wont work at all.
ull have to take clones and do them indoors or out beneath plastic (white) and in shade. If not - ALL h20 in the clones will go into the heaven and your
clones too.
Peace
 

pumpkin2006

Member
anybody that said 4 grams per watt was seriously exagerating . . .

it's a productive technique . . . but it's not magic . . .

you can easily do over a gram per watt with the right strain . . . other systems can do that but most aren't organic . . .

regards
3LB

I dunno, from the word of the creators....
 

BakedBeans

Member
Oops, I didn't see that. I believe they did document 2 grams per Watt though.


I wonder if they have ever tried adding light movers. The grows that I have seen using them worked out really well and had far higher harvests than they would have with stationary lights. The reason 3LB's setup is special is they place their lights at different heights depending on plant size. The larger plants in the middle (with the light highest off the ground) end up getting additional light from the reflectors to the sides which are lower to the ground. (3 x 600w). The middle of the canopy ends up getting much more light than it would otherwise and growth underneath the canopy is higher.

I wonder if this concept could be expanded with 3 light movers. By keeping the same light distances, but increasing the depth of the plant rows (coverage by the light mover), I imagine that ratio could start to approach at least 3 grams per watt if everything else was done right. (CO2, temp, minimized plant stress, etc).



I am most interested in using the Sun with polycarbonate panels. Barns, Metal Buildings and sheds can all be converted to allow natural light. Electricity costs go down, but the growing environment has just as much potential as indoors. It is safer than outdoors, but not totally hidden. We have been discussing interior-hung shade cloth under clear polycarbonate panels as a somewhat stealthier method. I like the idea of a greenhouse that doesn't really look like a greenhouse. All hail Sol. :)


bb :joint:
 
Y

yamaha_1fan

just cover your outside grow with a huge tarp and paint it to look like a pool. :) ANyone remember that from cheech and chong? :)
 

Julian

Canna Consultant
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I dunno, 2g's is still like 4 and some change per 1k. (I've always been a little suspicious of yield figures, because, unless fully dried, trimmed (all stick(s) gone) cured, and able to roll one that burns nice, eh...)

The whole deal with altering a roof of any structure if manipulating the birds eye view :smoke: Sure, from close up you can tell, couple hundred feet and moving is a different story.

(Things like a pool you might be able to do uncovered. Your issue is sightlines on the ground first. Some areas (many) have never seen eradication aircraft ever. They don't cover every square inch of a city, state, country. (Well, except maybe Cali and Kentucky :biglaugh: :smoke:)

I forgot a lot of worm castings from that list, but, was talking mainly about the primary mix. (And, you have to shop, some are not great...)

Should also be noted regarding bulk organics the larger you go, the better the price, so, for example, some things, ton might run you 500 bucks, etc, etc...
 
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it would be totally interesting to find out which states, municipalities actually have detection craft. With gas prices,everything going up.. imagine how much it would cost a local gov to run detection craft?

and even with it.. they can look very very hard and not find a thing.
 

BakedBeans

Member
One more idea for hiding a grow. Computer datacenter. You will need to actually build some sort of datacenter, which will require annual fire inspection. I would partition the building as if the op was a separately leased space, or otherwise well hidden.

Datacenters are notorious for security, secrecy, heavy power consumption, late-night maintenance by strange looking individuals, immense cooling requirements, late night pizza deliveries... :joint:

It is easy to buy surplus rackmount PC gear. Chatsworth or other aluminum relay racks are cheap. So are full cabinets if you're not picky about color or looks. Fill a room with some 7 year old Sun equipment and old Cisco routers. Gut the components so that it is only fans and lights running (have to have lots of noise). Nobody will dare go near your gear. You can make written procedures for entry and you will be able to prevent or delay just about anyone from looking at anything, including landlords or building maintenance, even fire inspectors in some cases.

Datacenters are often just staffed with a single technician, or nobody at all at all times of the day.

The best part would be buying a larger surplus UPS (Powerware, Leibert, Best, etc). Something large that will run 40-80KW for hours can be had for pennies on the dollar on the surplus market. It will use electricity, but for a large hydro setup it would afford you piece of mind with regards to power outages. Same thing with generators, though, don't plan on running that constantly. :)

You will need electricians, hvac techs, etc. If you are smart, you could plan your grow around legitimately hired labor. Have your AC system designed for 'expansion' and have the base system installed. You can re-route or add-on later. Same thing for electrical.

I think larger grows could really make use of ladder rack to route cables. :)


Just food for thought.


bb :joint:
 

BakedBeans

Member
It really depends on how you do things. It depends on whether or not you have a fire sprinkler system. It depends on what kind of building it is.

I dunno. I was just thinking out loud.

I suppose it's easier to hit and run in a commercial space and it wouldn't be as easy to pick up and move.



ANY commercial space is subject to fire inspections.
 

Julian

Canna Consultant
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I often laugh when I wonder how many growers are running/renting, etc, tech oriented business's :biglaugh:

You can usually call any local and check on all inspections, when they're scheduled, etc. (Pisses me off, they're just "juice" anyway.....) Actually (commercial) they do large multi families, and, inspections depend on the municipality.(Some also have pre sale compliance inspections and things of that sort...again, just "juice")

And, GG, you know, that's what I'm talking about. (Everyone running around wondering and pondering spaces and worried about a couple plants....)

Not every sq. inch of the world is monitored or even has any kind of observation (passerby's, aircraft, etc..)

Same with above (tech, servers)....Your not gonna live there forever!! :smoke:

You just...........need to.......use it for a little while :smoke:
 
I've seen a heli actually breaking branches on trees it was so close looking.. never found anything.. back and forth.. for maybe 45min.. maybe more.. I dont know.. I was in a hurry to work. :)

In upstate ny a sheriff in vineyard country told someone close that the choppers were going up that day.. ( about 11 years ago). I was yound but think i remember seeing em then.. but now with gas 4 times the price.. I don't see any reason why you would ever see a real police heli unless the area you live in is considered a hot spot by the dea and supports with money are being given to use.

the only way there will be a helicopter is if the local police (well funded) try a bust but cant find it all... assume theres more... with plenty of bodies they turn up little.. they might put up a heli if theres some reason to believe theres a big patch left.

again minis key ;) I just never knew they had a name

Is there a way of inquiring with local government about this?
 
julian.. you've said a couple times FMS seeds.. is that something on seedbay? it doesn't seem to match anything I see.

edit: the last thing I need is any seeds.. but I might as see what were talking bout right?
 
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Julian

Canna Consultant
ICMag Donor
Veteran
GorillaGrower said:
I don't see any reason why you would ever see a real police heli unless the area you live in is considered a hot spot by the dea and supports with money are being given to use.

There ya go.......:smoke: (although, DEA are not the only in the air, All states I am sure have some State Aircraft dedicated to it at some time, or some point. (Not a fact, could be wrong, just assuming. I know many do....(State aircraft). The you have local and regional task forces, etc, etc. County? I wouldn't know. I know County Sheriff's seem to do a lot of footwork (Location? Name one), but, never saw or heard of anything connected with air. Only State and local regional task forces. Know it changes with Parks (National, State.) I hear lot of people talk about the safety due to limited Rangers, but, again, Rangers aren't really I think the ones covering it, as much as in conjunction with....etc, etc....

Your experience? I wouldn't think many could say the same. I could share a story or two, :smoke: but, in recent memory and locations?, have never even heard a commercial aircraft in the distance :smoke:....

If one does a little research :smoke:, it's easy to discover where the "hot spots" are (All states have em :smoke:)...

Go opposite the hot spots.....:smoke:
 
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pumpkin2006

Member
While I agree with a hit and run, for any grow, you need to make sure all the dynamics are in place and there isn't something that you could know about, that you don't know about. For most people $$ is a factor, its hard to hit up a place with a quick move in and a quick move out and stay profitable.

Sure people who have done hundreds of these commerical grows can throw 100k at something and probably make out with 150k or more, but we, here at icmag, probably don't have those resources or the ability to make something like that happen.

I think we should focus on more realistic setups that don't require a huge capital. I.E. So you should look for this type of house, what system should they implement, what kind of lights, co2? if yes then what ppm, ac?. Basically the most productive system for the least amount of money and work.
 

Julian

Canna Consultant
ICMag Donor
Veteran
100k?.........

Someone running a good 3K could, with two batches,pay for the set up of a 8/16k flip flopped for 2 batches or more and still have some change :smoke:

(I always add and round things up so I always have a lot of "change" :smoke:)

And it would be fun shopping with really no skimping :smoke:)
 
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pumpkin2006

Member
Wait 8 ballasts + 16 hoods + 16 bulbs + flip flop + 2 6" fans + 1 10-12" fan/filter combo. Then the actual system itself + clones/seeds+ cost of rent and electricity and then nutrients.... maybe you wanna add co2, then a computer to control all of that.

Hmm

8 ballasts = at least $800
16 hoods = at least $1600
16 bulbs = at least $700
Flip flop = at least $300
2 6" fans = at least $225
10 - 12" fan/filter combo = at least $250
Actual system... I dunno
Clones, lets say $5 a piece for 256 (1 per sq/ft) = $1280
Who know about rent but thats $$, electricity is the same.
Nutrients, well with really basic your gonna drop at least $300

So lets total this up = $5455 while negating some of the other costs.

Optional:
Co2 sniffer/controller = at least $300
Tank = $150
Tank controller = $150
Computer = at least $150

Optionals = $750
With optionals = $6205

I low balled everything; I want you to be right and tell me where to get all this stuff for so cheap, I'll thank you for the rest of my life, but I don't see it happening.

Ok, so I just re-read what you wrote and realized what you meant. I see what you mean. I still think its hard to have that situation where you could run 16k/8 flip flopped.
 
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